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Latest Stu Article -Illinois, Mizzou, SLU hope record pay results in big hoops payoff


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https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/illinois-mizzou-slu-hope-record-pay-results-in-big-hoops-payoff/article_f95186ae-17f8-576a-ae76-b45ddf59331a.html

Nice Article although it has the obligatory Illinois and Mi$$ou have "significantly larger budgets than SLU."

The biggest takeaway for me is this though.

Quote

When a coach is fired, a large buyout typically must be paid in addition to a new coach’s salary. SLU paid Crews $1.86 million in 2016-17, according to tax forms,

This is outrageous, appalling, disgusting, embarrassing.

I know I've never seen this figure reported anywhere before, though I may have missed it, I kind of doubt it.

Heads should have rolled for giving the world's worst basketball coach a buyout of nearly 2 Million Dollars.

Jim Crews should be serving time in the St. Louis workhouse for this type of robbery.

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Probably had 2 years left on his contract, rumors had it it was more. So we payed this turkey close to a mil a year. Probably the worst coach in SLUs history. Ekker had an excuse (low budget, the West Pine Gym, uninterested administration with O'Connell, etc..) and Buddy Brehmer was a little before my time. 

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3 hours ago, MusicCityBilliken said:

Probably had 2 years left on his contract, rumors had it it was more. So we played this turkey close to a mil a year. Probably the worst coach in SLUs history. Ekker had an excuse (low budget, the West Pine Gym, uninterested administration with O'Connell, etc..) and Buddy Brehmer was a little before my time. 

He must of  used a St. Louis Spirits' lawyer or agent!

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5 hours ago, thetorch said:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/illinois-mizzou-slu-hope-record-pay-results-in-big-hoops-payoff/article_f95186ae-17f8-576a-ae76-b45ddf59331a.html

Nice Article although it has the obligatory Illinois and Mi$$ou have "significantly larger budgets than SLU."

The biggest takeaway for me is this though.

This is outrageous, appalling, disgusting, embarrassing.

I know I've never seen this figure reported anywhere before, though I may have missed it, I kind of doubt it.

Heads should have rolled for giving the world's worst basketball coach a buyout of nearly 2 Million Dollars.

Jim Crews should be serving time in the St. Louis workhouse for this type of robbery.

-when I read the amount of the Crews buyout I was stunned, don't care that he had two years left

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14 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

At $2.4M/year, it seems like Ford has an extremely comfortable gig. Can’t hurt his recruiting

Was a bit surprised he makes more than both Rhoades and Grant. Makes me feel good about our current level of investment. I also like that we brought in two grad assistants, a young but up-and-coming assistant (who likely wasn't the cheapest option) and that new strength coach. We also have a new video analytics guy which is good.

I felt really, really good about the staff investment when we got Ford, Bailey, Macon and Tate, plus other key supporting staff. I got a little nervous when we backfilled Macon/Bailey but Giacoletti, Young Ford and now Forte all seem like smart moves.

We are trending in the direction of operating as a total program at a level only matched by rivaled of our conference mates. We need to be the leader of the pack in this regard and I now have confidence that's what we're trying to do.

I would expect a big 2023 recruiting class and would expect us to be a good player in the transfer market this year.  

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Crews buyout was fairly common knowledge at the time at least on the board.  Crews contract was a kin to the Carp one for the Cardinals - didn't have to be given out and when they did they screwed the pooch royally.  As many of us said all the arguments given about the school being boxed in and had no choice but to hire Crews was nonsense then and is still nonsense.  The 1.8 million would mean that he got about 900K per year which was cheap at the time given that RM was making 1 million I think and that contract was signed several years before.  Additionally, salaries skyrocketed after RM signed across college basketball so I am sure in Biondi's eyes 900K for Crews was a bargain and we all know how he loved his bargains.

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Open discussion on Ford's reported $2.44 million contract.  What is your basis for saying he has been a good hire, an okay hire, or a bad hire.  Here are his stats for the five years at SLU.  Not coming through on this set of stats is the 2018-19 A10 Tourney Championship, which was highlighted in yellow.  His record at SLU is pretty much right on his career record. 

 

       
Saint Louis Billikens (Atlantic 10 Conference) (2016–present)
2016–17 Saint Louis 12–21 6–12 11th  
2017–18 Saint Louis 17–16 9–9 T–5th  
2018–19 Saint Louis 23–13 10–8 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2019–20 Saint Louis 23–8 12–6 4th  
2020–21 Saint Louis 14–7 6–4 T–4th NIT First Round
Saint Louis: 89–65 (.578) 43–39 (.524)  
Total: 434–322 (.574)
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22 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Open discussion on Ford's reported $2.44 million contract.  What is your basis for saying he has been a good hire, an okay hire, or a bad hire.  Here are his stats for the five years at SLU.  Not coming through on this set of stats is the 2018-19 A10 Tourney Championship, which was highlighted in yellow.  His record at SLU is pretty much right on his career record. 

 

       
Saint Louis Billikens (Atlantic 10 Conference) (2016–present)
2016–17 Saint Louis 12–21 6–12 11th  
2017–18 Saint Louis 17–16 9–9 T–5th  
2018–19 Saint Louis 23–13 10–8 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2019–20 Saint Louis 23–8 12–6 4th  
2020–21 Saint Louis 14–7 6–4 T–4th NIT First Round
Saint Louis: 89–65 (.578) 43–39 (.524)  
Total: 434–322 (.574)

Ford gets a pass for year 1 given that Crews left him with such a roster.  There weren't any quality freshmen left in the spring who were going to come to SLU, so he decided to build with some transfers who had to sit a year (Bess, Graves, Henriquez, Foreman).  That backfired when situation 2.0 happened and he lost guys that were expected to be major contributors (Graves, Henriquez, Bishop).  Therefore, he largely gets a pass for year 2 as well.

Years 3-5 are all pretty good.  1 NCAA appearance, one bubble team that was red hot & didn't get a chance to win the tournament, and another bubble team that was tournament bound if they didn't get hit by COVD.

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I agree with RU's assessment however that further demonstrates that the honeymoon is over for Coach Ford.  I'll bet he knows it.  He has to produce a winner this year I believe.  And I think he is poised to do so.  Success is tenuous at best.  I happen to believe we are right there with Bonaventure.  I think we are in a better place than Dayton with its youth, VCU with its injuries, and Davidson with its foreign imports.  I am uncertain with Richmond as it is hard to really know if Sherrod's return makes them better what with losing Francis.  But if Sherrod is back, they are no six deep counting Burton although I don't think Crabtree and Gustafson move their needle much.  The bench remains weak and Sherrod has already blown both knees these past two years.

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25 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Ford gets a pass for year 1 given that Crews left him with such a roster.  There weren't any quality freshmen left in the spring who were going to come to SLU, so he decided to build with some transfers who had to sit a year (Bess, Graves, Henriquez, Foreman).  That backfired when situation 2.0 happened and he lost guys that were expected to be major contributors (Graves, Henriquez, Bishop).  Therefore, he largely gets a pass for year 2 as well.

Years 3-5 are all pretty good.  1 NCAA appearance, one bubble team that was red hot & didn't get a chance to win the tournament, and another bubble team that was tournament bound if they didn't get hit by COVD.

I agree with almost all of this analysis. Year 1 was digging out from the dumpster fire He Who Shall Not Be Named left. Year 2 was an improvement, and 3 and 4 were big steps. I have a hard time really categorizing last year, which in terms of results was a step backwards and what could be called a failure based on the  returning talent opposed to the results of the season.

Overall he's done a good job fixing what was a completely busted situation. I think this is the chance Coach Ford has to turn "good job" into "great job", and it starts by making the NCAA. 

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I think Ford brings a lot more to the program than his W-L record, which at this point is littered with asterisks. We know he is the best recruiter we've had at SLU, but the Xs & Os are where people sh1t on him after certain losses. That's fair, but he's had us in contention/put out a winning team every season since Crews' stink was erased. Off the court, he is an incredible asset for SLU, and I think May/Dr. Chaifetz recognize that/see it helping our Big East chances. He crushes it with the media and seems genuinely likable. People bring out their pitchforks for him once or twice a season, but IMO are dreaming that someone else can waltz in here and do better -- would be a huge risk for the program. 

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Through 5 years, Ford has been a success. He’s raised the talent floor of the program to a point where SLU should be top 4 every year, and in the conversation come March. There are moments of frustration, but I’m very curious to see how the team changes post-Goodwin and French. Some of the more frustrating moments the last 4 years came because of the identity formed by those two, and I’m really excited to see him work with (on paper) the most offensive weapons he’s had here. 

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11 hours ago, NH said:

Was a bit surprised he makes more than both Rhoades and Grant. Makes me feel good about our current level of investment. I also like that we brought in two grad assistants, a young but up-and-coming assistant (who likely wasn't the cheapest option) and that new strength coach. We also have a new video analytics guy which is good.

I felt really, really good about the staff investment when we got Ford, Bailey, Macon and Tate, plus other key supporting staff. I got a little nervous when we backfilled Macon/Bailey but Giacoletti, Young Ford and now Forte all seem like smart moves.

We are trending in the direction of operating as a total program at a level only matched by rivaled of our conference mates. We need to be the leader of the pack in this regard and I now have confidence that's what we're trying to do.

I would expect a big 2023 recruiting class and would expect us to be a good player in the transfer market this year.  

-need the returns from the investment

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i long ago decided that ford is what he is.   a fabulous recruiter, a well liked coach by players and fans alike that regardless of his coaching ability and player improvment skills he gives us a chance in the A10 solely on the talent level ford's rosters have compared to any rosters in previous billiken coaches.   even rickma didnt year in and year out have the depth that ford's rosters have.   

if you think about that, realizing we have had so many coaches that couldnt bring in the talent and then relied on their own belief they could coach the team up and then be satisfied with the slightly better than 500 records, i'll take ford the rest of my billiken days.   heck look at lou henson the old illinois coach.    pretty much the same story.   he got to a final four.   seemed to be in the tourney most years.   we get to that, i die a happy man.  

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

I agree with RU's assessment however that further demonstrates that the honeymoon is over for Coach Ford.  I'll bet he knows it.  He has to produce a winner this year I believe.  And I think he is poised to do so.  Success is tenuous at best.  I happen to believe we are right there with Bonaventure.  I think we are in a better place than Dayton with its youth, VCU with its injuries, and Davidson with its foreign imports.  I am uncertain with Richmond as it is hard to really know if Sherrod's return makes them better what with losing Francis.  But if Sherrod is back, they are no six deep counting Burton although I don't think Crabtree and Gustafson move their needle much.  The bench remains weak and Sherrod has already blown both knees these past two years.

Agree with this. It's time to get to the Dance... not a transition year.

On related topic - support for the program - he's in very good shape. One of the best buildings. Recent multi-million $ investment in renovated locker rooms for men and women. Basketball budget around the midpoint of Big East schools. Now a Champions Center to the tune of another $20M that is currently fairly rare among non-Football schools - opening in about a year.

It's time to win. Then a move to the Big East.

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Coach Ford is a solid coach and I want him to be our coach until he retires, even if we only make the NCAA every 5 years.  But let's be honest, anything less than a second place finish in the A-10 this year is a disappointment.  VCU is hobbled. Dayton has a bunch of youngsters. And this lineup is the best matchup we've ever had against Davidson.  The regular season title really should come down to us and the Bonnies.

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Here is why Coach Ford is not on the hot seat, yet, in my opinion:

1. In decades, the program has had only three guys from the program play in the NBA (Bonner, Hughes, and Reed).  That's averaging about one guy every 15 years.  No other players have come close to the NBA.  In his first five years, Ford has seen two guys get shots (Bess and Goodwin) at NBA teams and we have two guys in the program that seem to be candidates (Perkins and Nesbitt).  The talent Ford has brought in is at a level we haven't seen since the 40's and early 50's.

2. If we decide that Ford's services are no longer required, we will lose a ton of equity we have built up with the local community when it comes to recruiting.

3. Charlie Spoonhaur took us to the NCAA tournament 3 times in 7 years.  Most fans consider his time here to be a great era in Billiken history.  Rick Majerus took us to the tournament 1 time in five years.  I understand that had he not died it would have been at least 2 in 6 years.  Ford has gotten us to the tournament 1 time in 5 years, but with some extenuating circumstances involved including a Situation and Covid.  I think Ford's time here is at least equivalent to Spoonhaur and Majerus's time.  We don't want to part with that.

4. I believe that Ford is the greatest promoter of this team that we have ever had in the head coach position.  This is evidenced by the fact that he did an hour long interview for a podcast put on by some members of this forum.  I don't think many coaches would do that.

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

Here is why Coach Ford is not on the hot seat, yet, in my opinion:

4. I believe that Ford is the greatest promoter of this team that we have ever had in the head coach position.  This is evidenced by the fact that he did an hour long interview for a podcast put on by some members of this forum.  I don't think many coaches would do that.

This is obviously the most important point. Got his contract extended with this move.

The other thing that matters is that the people in power - in the AD, the University, and the donors - really like him.

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