Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[slufan13]

I think this team is already showing signs of fatigue. 

[Pistol]

Just now, slufan13 said:

I think this team is already showing signs of fatigue. 

No question. We were seeing signs of this before Providence, let alone during that game and the Detroit loss. A 7-man rotation with 4 new players is pretty brutal.

[brianstl]

54 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Last years team improved with a shorter bench so I do not buy the team will be spent.

As far as others posting this will hurt the university if it works out a certain way are wrong and history proves that.

Post situation 1 worked out fine with 3 straight NCAA tournament bids and as far as I can see did not hurt our recruiting based on coach Ford's recruiting success.

History could repeat itself and we all may have to wait until next year for really great basketball and a string of NCAA tournament bids.

This season is frustrating but I am with Pistol and others that want SLU to take the high road even if it means a losing season.

I will be at the game tonight cheering on who we have and hope for a surprise of all players dressed.

This is totally incorrect.  Post situation 1 didn't work out fine.  That 12-13 team was an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell.    The 13-14 would have at least been a Sweet 16 and probably an Elite 8 team with Reed.

It killed recruiting, too.  The best players players we signed post over a six year period, post situation 1, were Carter, Crawford and Roby.

It cost the program huge amounts of money and talent.

[ARon]

15 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

 if SLU would do more to get out in front of these situations, namely scare the living out of Joe Student Athlete in perhaps using what happened to Willie, Kwamain, etc as an example - these sort of nut-kicking situations might not happen. 

BINGO

[Box and Won]

17 minutes ago, BilliKitty said:

Just curiosity... who thinks the s2 boys are playing tonight? 

No one.

[BilliKat]

Just now, Box and Won said:

No one.

😞

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, Billboy1 said:

This has gone on long enough either SH** or get off.  This team will be spent by conference time with the short bench.

I guess they must be constipated.

[Bobby Metzinger]

1 minute ago, Old guy said:

I guess they must be constipated.

We definitely have an irregular lineup. 

[JMM28]

22 minutes ago, brianstl said:

This is totally incorrect.  Post situation 1 didn't work out fine.  That 12-13 team was an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell.    The 13-14 would have at least been a Sweet 16 and probably an Elite 8 team with Reed.

It killed recruiting, too.  The best players players we signed post over a six year period, post situation 1, were Carter, Crawford and Roby.

It cost the program huge amounts of money and talent.

The stress probably helped put Majerus in an earlier grave too. 

Willie Reed on the team until he was a junior would have led to at least 1 S16 appearance and those teams could have challenged for a Final 4 berth - especially the 13-14 team. That was a damn good team. Anything beyond that would have been a gamble if Willie would have stuck around, been drafted, flunked out, whatever. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, JMM28 said:

The stress probably helped put Majerus in an earlier grave too. 

Willie Reed on the team until he was a junior would have led to at least 1 S16 appearance and those teams could have challenged for a Final 4 berth - especially the 13-14 team. That was a damn good team. 

Well, as someone who truly loved his guys no matter where he was - I'm sure this is an unfortunate truth. It's a shame. A damn shame. Not a day goes by, as I'm sure it does with all of you, that there isn't a pause to think about Coach Majerus and Coach Spoonhour probably drawing up X's and O's in heaven. 

[Littlebill]

2 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Not to be callous, but University's have this problem in several areas and there is a lot more they could do for prevention (like, I don't know, ban all fraternities).  They pay for insurance which covers lawsuits along these lines, so their costs are mostly fixed.  Everything University's do is a dance to keep alumni and funding dollars flowing, which can be infuriating to observe.

Banning all fraternities? LOL. What a hot take.

and the plural of university is universities. You skip that day of third grade?

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, Littlebill said:

Banning all fraternities? LOL. What a hot take.

and the plural of university is universities. You skip that day of third grade?

Rosenbloom, circa 1966. 

[HoosierPal]

47 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

I understand 18-22 year old kids will act like 18-22 year old kids on occasion, but if SLU would do more to get out in front of these situations, namely scare the living out of Joe Student Athlete in perhaps using what happened to Willie, Kwamain, etc as an example - these sort of nut-kicking situations might not happen. 

I can't speak for the Athletic Dept. on what they do to address the growing number of sexual assault cases popping up on college campuses across the country, but it isn't enough. 

This may be your best post ever. To me there are three levels of issues. First the three who made a bad decision that had a negative effect on the team.

Second is Coach and the Athletic Dept who didn’t use the history of Situation 1 to impress on these players that the decisions they make have wide reaching impact. These are high profile students. What they do will have a much higher public profile than other students.

And third the University has to do a better job of presenting the issues, the expectations up front. 

[Bills_06]

41 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Just a quick reset in case people are wondering why there's no announcement after the 60-day window. Per SLU's Sexual Misconduct Policy, and I'll save you the trouble and direct your attention to the bottom of page 33, either party may appeal the outcome. They have 3 days to appeal after the Notice of Outcome, and "except in extraordinary circumstances", the University has 10 days to resolve the appeal.

So assuming we're on day 64 of the process (Stu tweeted "day 63" yesterday) and all 13 days are taken for the appeals process, we're looking at Thursday, 12/7 for a possible resolution - possibly earlier, if they don't use the whole time frame, and possibly later, if there are some holiday-related delays factored in.

SLU plays SIUC on 12/6, so I would safely assume we won't see them back before then. Houston is 12/9, Murray State is 12/12, and Oregon State is 12/16. Murray State is regular season game 10, for a nice round number on a possible suspension.

Looking through that policy is what is annoying me the most.  They layout the timeline very clearly with "except for good cause, the University will conclude its investigation, hearing, and appeal process within sixty (60) days following the receipt of a report."  The timeline Stu starts from is Dr. P's email so if they received the report before that, technically it should have started then.  Of course they cover themselves with the "good cause" may extend it but it just seems some sort of timeline could have been given to the media or outlined.  Even now they should have an idea of when it should be concluded as they clearly state that there is a timeline to these investigations.  

[CBFan]

33 minutes ago, brianstl said:

This is totally incorrect.  Post situation 1 didn't work out fine.  That 12-13 team was an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell.    The 13-14 would have at least been a Sweet 16 and probably an Elite 8 team with Reed.

It killed recruiting, too.  The best players players we signed post over a six year period, post situation 1, were Carter, Crawford and Roby.

It cost the program huge amounts of money and talent.

Respectfully disagree Brian there is no way of ever knowing if 13-14 would have made the final 16 or 8, they probably would have based on the Memphis win and the near win with MSU.  No one knows if Willie would have been on the team he might have moved on to the NBA.

As far as recruiting Rick Majerus was seriously ill and you have buzz kill Crews and I believe it is hard to know how recruiting may have turned out if SLU would have hired another big name coach instead of promoting buzz kill Crews.

[moytoy12]

https://twitter.com/studurando/status/935526154500497408

 

stu durando‏ @studurando

FollowingFollowing @studurando

Travis Ford on whether he expects a decision soon on Title IX investigation: "I have no idea." And then, "I can't spend a lot of times on things I don't have any control over."

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

I think this team is already showing signs of fatigue. 

They are teenagers.  They can handle the physical end. But mentally, yes. Mental fatigue Is showing. It is very hard to grind out every possession for 40 minutes. Laser focus is needed 100% of the time. One player lets one  assignment slip, he has let  his teammates down with likely a negative result on the scoreboard. That is where I see the fatigue as being an issue. 

Players who either played at the HS level or took the year off have a hard time keeping their mind in the game on every possession at this level. 

[David King]

15 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Boom.  After some 1700 posts, you are the first to get to the crux of the issue.  Complaining about the length of the Title IX investigation is misguided.  If certain players had kept their pants on, this never happens and we are 4-1. 

...or 5-0.

[slu72]

I'd be shocked if Sit 1 has never been mentioned to all of SLU's athletes. Doubly shocked if Ford and staff never sat this team down in some kind of expected conduct of college athletes seminar/session. And really shocked if how to deal with sexual situations wasn't topic number 1. A day doesn't go by where some issue of sex involving a college athlete(s) isn't on the internet, ESPN, local news, etc.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

1 minute ago, slu72 said:

I'd be shocked if Sit 1 has never been mentioned to all of SLU's athletes. Doubly shocked if Ford and staff never sat this team down in some kind of expected conduct of college athletes seminar/session. And really shocked if how to deal with sexual situations wasn't topic number 1. A day doesn't go by where some issue of sex involving a college athlete(s) isn't on the internet, ESPN, local news, etc.

Exactly, and even with all that, you will still have teenagers do teenager things.

[HenryB]

31 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

This may be your best post ever. To me there are three levels of issues. First the three who made a bad decision that had a negative effect on the team.

Second is Coach and the Athletic Dept who didn’t use the history of Situation 1 to impress on these players that the decisions they make have wide reaching impact. These are high profile students. What they do will have a much higher public profile than other students.

And third the University has to do a better job of presenting the issues, the expectations up front. 

I don't buy the narrative that the coaching staff didn't emphasize the consequences of making poor decisions.   Almost every parent has experienced a child doing something they were warned not to do.  As a long time teacher I can assure you that the strongest admonitions are frequently ignored.  The players and the ladies knew exactly what they were doing. Suggesting the coaches didn't do enough to stop it is ridiculous.

[HoosierPal]

1 minute ago, HenryB said:

I don't buy the narrative that the coaching staff didn't emphasize the consequences of making poor decisions.   Almost every parent has experienced a child doing something they were warned not to do.  As a long time teacher I can assure you that the strongest admonitions are frequently ignored.  The players and the ladies knew exactly what they were doing. Suggesting the coaches didn't do enough to stop it is ridiculous.

I guess we will agree to disagree. 

[Spoon-Balls]

1 hour ago, JMM28 said:

The stress probably helped put Majerus in an earlier grave too. 

Willie Reed on the team until he was a junior would have led to at least 1 S16 appearance and those teams could have challenged for a Final 4 berth - especially the 13-14 team. That was a damn good team. Anything beyond that would have been a gamble if Willie would have stuck around, been drafted, flunked out, whatever. 

 

It really makes you wonder what could have been... SLU's program as a whole has been nothing but endless kicks in the groin for its fanbase. It's no wonder there's no excitement for Billiken basketball in this city. 

 

I am trying to be excited for this new era of SLU basketball, but to be completely honest, it's going to take some years of sustained winning, a couple NCAA tourney berths, and hopefully an invite to the Big East for me to have any solid trust that things will ever be any different for the longterm future of this program. 

[615Billiken]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:34 AM, BillIkenFan_Dan said:

 

[615Billiken]

There's a silver lining to all of this. My expectation for the season was that we would be better than at the end of last season, but this wouldn't be our NCAA tournament year. I was expecting to finish between 4th and 6th place in the A10. 

It appears that we are looking to end in that range. In this sense, the 'suspension' or whatever have not tumbled what I expected from the team this year. Additionally, because we are short, I assume French, Goodwin, and Johnson are getting more minutes than they would have with a full squad. This means that they have more reps and time to develop on the court. Next year, our squad was looking to be even better talent wise, and now we will have even more developed sophomores.