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13 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Frank C on SLU and Kern:   "I think they like him a lot, I think they believe he is a good player, but I don't think in the end they believe that he can come in and have an impact on the program."

Also, Hughes Jr is now 6'6".  He is a better shooter than his father was at his age, but not a better player.  He isn't going to be the defender his dad was.

I think this is a fair assessment.  It's not a knock on Kern, any player outside the top 200 would be in the same position.  Strickland was almost as good as Kern going into his senior year and he will rarely see the court this season because of our strength at his position.

As for the 2022 class, the 247 in-state rankings have Braxton Stacker at #2, Damien Mayo at #3 and Hughes at #4.  Based on what I've seen on the court, they're dead-on.  

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34 minutes ago, willie said:

You didn’t point out that Frank said we didn’t want him. That the offer was not good. We don’t think he can help the program. 

 

22 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Frank C on SLU and Kern:   "I think they like him a lot, I think they believe he is a good player, but I don't think in the end they believe that he can come in and have an impact on the program."

Also, Hughes Jr is now 6'6".  He is a better shooter than his father was at his age, but not a better player.  He isn't going to be the defender his dad was.

-these are very interesting posts on Kern, this sounds like the ole "we stopped recruiting him" line

-I will take another 6'6" shooter

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1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

I think this is a fair assessment.  It's not a knock on Kern, any player outside the top 200 would be in the same position.  Strickland was almost as good as Kern going into his senior year and he will rarely see the court this season because of our strength at his position.

As for the 2022 class, the 247 in-state rankings have Braxton Stacker at #2, Damien Mayo at #3 and Hughes at #4.  Based on what I've seen on the court, they're dead-on.  

-I don't recall seeing his name on here, looks like a Cardinal Ritter player, of course our campus is just down the street

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3 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

 

-these are very interesting posts on Kern, this sounds like the ole "we stopped recruiting him" line

-I will take another 6'6" shooter

Last week on the radio, Coach said they were being 'cautious and patient" on recruiting.  Sounds to me like they want to wait until spring and see what the fallout is as far as the extra year and free transfer.  Perhaps, my word, if Kern waited until spring the situation might be different.

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4 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I don't recall seeing his name on here, looks like a Cardinal Ritter player, of course our campus is just down the street

Transferred in from Belleville East.  I've written quite a bit about him, but I suspect most of our local hoops fans haven't seen him play.  Belleville East wasn't exactly a powerhouse last year.

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3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Transferred in from Belleville East.  I've written quite a bit about him, but I suspect most of our local hoops fans haven't seen him play.  Belleville East wasn't exactly a powerhouse last year.

-thanks, I hope I get the opportunity to see him, and all high school hoops, this season

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This is a tricky year to recruit for SLU. We are a good and deep team and a recruit would need to be very good to play. Nesbitt was a no Brainer. We could take a chance on a development big, if Ford finds one with crazy high potential. Otherwise it makes more sense to see how the season and players progress.  Who will get hurt, who won't be able to contribute and what seniors might decide to come back. How will Okoro look as he rehabs and how will our freshmen do? Its impossible to say what our biggest needs will be for next season. The picture will be clearer in the spring and if we spend time in the top 25 and/or make a run, our stock will be up. So we may be able to get better quality freshmen recruits  and transfers in the spring.

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I have a lot of confidence in this staff and I fully understand things are in incredible flux with the # of scholarships available next year, etc. but I'm not a fan of passing on a player of Kern's ability, if that is indeed what is happening (reading between Cusumano lines can be dangerous). I have a feeling we are getting too greedy with the type of talent we want and are passing on a kid that can help...and keep the local pipeline open and flowing.

With the whole world basically saying "we'll wait until the spring to see what is available" now could actually be the best time to sign a kid in the fall and he is getting nervous. When others zig, you should zag. Especially when we have at least 3 schollys to offer.

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20 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I have a lot of confidence in this staff and I fully understand things are in incredible flux with the # of scholarships available next year, etc. but I'm not a fan of passing on a player of Kern's ability, if that is indeed what is happening (reading between Cusumano lines can be dangerous). I have a feeling we are getting too greedy with the type of talent we want and are passing on a kid that can help...and keep the local pipeline open and flowing.

With the whole world basically saying "we'll wait until the spring to see what is available" now could actually be the best time to sign a kid in the fall and he is getting nervous. When others zig, you should zag. Especially when we have at least 3 schollys to offer.

If we're really going to open a pipeline to Vashon, then any player we sign needs to have a legitimate chance at contributing right away.  You think the Vashon community is feeling good about Mizzou after Mario McKinney stayed nailed to the bench his freshman year?

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This is my opinion and probably no one else's. I have full trust and confidence in Ford and his coaching/recruiting staff and think they are doing everything possible to insure the best season ever for the Bills. Likewise I wholeheartedly believe this year's is the very best, most talented, and capable team the Bills have fielded in recent memory. In a normal season I would not have a single doubt they would go very far in post-season play.

However, this is not a normal season, and our performance does not depend solely upon issues we can manage and control. The introduction of the damned virus in the process is capable of wrecking this season for any given program. I hope and pray this does not happen to the Bills but who knows what will happen once the season opens. Will we be sidelined into quarantine this season, who knows?

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Lol there's no ill will towards Mizzou.  As for Nick,  he's very good.   I think if he had played for MoKan or BBE his first two years his ranking would be much higher.  I can understand tho if SLU isn't showing maximum interest with all the players coming back at the wing positions.  But it definitely isn't a talent issue with Nick.  VCU is on him pretty hard.  I would imagine his mom wants him closer.  She is usually at all his games.  I wish he could have gotten a full summer of AAU ball plus fall workouts for coaches to see him.

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42 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If we're really going to open a pipeline to Vashon, then any player we sign needs to have a legitimate chance at contributing right away.  You think the Vashon community is feeling good about Mizzou after Mario McKinney stayed nailed to the bench his freshman year?

How will they feel if Philip Russell doesn't play, even if he is a walk-on? Or if they feel like you didn't treat Stockard or Kern right during the recruitment. At some point if you want to create a pipeline you need to take a kid that isn't a 100% sure thing. And I have a hard time believing we are going to be so good or have so many other options that Kern couldn't play for us.

 

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3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I think this is a fair assessment.  It's not a knock on Kern, any player outside the top 200 would be in the same position.  Strickland was almost as good as Kern going into his senior year and he will rarely see the court this season because of our strength at his position.

As for the 2022 class, the 247 in-state rankings have Braxton Stacker at #2, Damien Mayo at #3 and Hughes at #4.  Based on what I've seen on the court, they're dead-on.  

Am I missing something?  When I look at Pistol's list for 2022 recruits, it doesn't show that we have offered Stacker.

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I have zero insider info, but this feels like a situation where Frank's perspective may be misleading. Nick Kern is absolutely talented enough be a good player for at SLU, and I have no doubt that the coaches know that. If we aren't recruiting him with the full push I have to think it is because 1) we don't think he wants to come to SLU or 2) there is some other reason why he isn't a good fit with our team - maybe the coaching staff thinks he wouldn't respond well to not getting big minutes right away or something like that. 

If it were Soderberg or Majerus I'd buy that we were waiting, but Ford has never been the wait-and-see type of recruiter (just look at us taking Okoro and Russell when we had no open scholarships). 

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50 minutes ago, NH said:

I have zero insider info, but this feels like a situation where Frank's perspective may be misleading. Nick Kern is absolutely talented enough be a good player for at SLU, and I have no doubt that the coaches know that. If we aren't recruiting him with the full push I have to think it is because 1) we don't think he wants to come to SLU or 2) there is some other reason why he isn't a good fit with our team - maybe the coaching staff thinks he wouldn't respond well to not getting big minutes right away or something like that. 

If it were Soderberg or Majerus I'd buy that we were waiting, but Ford has never been the wait-and-see type of recruiter (just look at us taking Okoro and Russell when we had no open scholarships). 

For all the hype over Vashon players, few have panned out as college basketball "difference makers/stars" in the last 25 years.https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/teams/1171/Vashon-High-School

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I really hope that Kern chooses SLU.  If he doesn’t choose SLU because of the crowded wing position I get it and wish the local young man well.

If Kern doesn’t choose SLU then I would like to see Gassama and Houston signed and hopefully Russell will earn a scholarship and on to 2022. 
 

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3 hours ago, bauman said:

Am I missing something?  When I look at Pistol's list for 2022 recruits, it doesn't show that we have offered Stacker.

We haven't. No coaches are following him on Twitter, and I haven't been able to confirm interest another way, either.

FWIW, PrepHoopsMO has Stacker ranked 6th in the state, behind Reed, Jevon Porter, Taj Manning from the KC area, Damien Mayo, and Robert Martin.

As for Kern, others have said it, but I wonder how different his recruitment might look if he waited until the spring. It sure seems like SLU is going to sit the fall out after missing on Nesbitt. Maybe a big HS season and some spring openings change the picture - then again, it means other, bigger programs probably get involved, too. If the thought is that he won't be an instant contributor, I don't necessarily disagree with that assessment.

I still think he's worth a scholarship if we have one to give, though. Really like his toughness and long-term potential. It would just take patience on both ends because we have a loaded roster and no idea who's staying next season. If one of these other (pretty attractive) schools is telling him he can contribute immediately, I can't blame him if he goes away.

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I thought "was has Vashon done that makes them so special?"  Then I read the listing provided by WV and that pretty much confirmed my question as well.  I'd also add Anthony Jones and Ramon Trice to the list.   I know Vashon has a storied history on Missouri/St. Louis high school hoops but that success has not translated well at the next level.  Clark and Fletcher have a chance to rewrite recent history and i will watch with curiosity to see how that plays out.  Vashon's greatest player was arguably our greatest player and that was almost 30 years ago.

I'd like to get Nick but this pipeline to Vashon stuff is an urban legend.  Miles.  Hughes.  Beal.  Lee.  Ellis.  Stipo.  White.  Carrawell.  Woods.  Baniak.  Claggett.  Tatum.  Nesbitt.  Nary a one Vashon.  

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14 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

For all the hype over Vashon players, few have panned out as college basketball "difference makers/stars" in the last 25 years.https://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/teams/1171/Vashon-High-School

I dunno. Assuming that list is correct, I see 15 kids that have played D1 basketball in the past 18 years (having Bonnor on the list is weird because otherwise it's just guys since 2002). No superstars, yet, but that's a pretty fair amount of talent for a single public school to produce. Nobody is saying we need to take a player every year but it would be nice to have a good working relationship with the coaches so the next Camron Fletcher gives us a harder look.

I agree with NH's take above.

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12 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I thought "was has Vashon done that makes them so special?"  Then I read the listing provided by WV and that pretty much confirmed my question as well.  I'd also add Anthony Jones and Ramon Trice to the list.   I know Vashon has a storied history on Missouri/St. Louis high school hoops but that success has not translated well at the next level.  Clark and Fletcher have a chance to rewrite recent history and i will watch with curiosity to see how that plays out.  Vashon's greatest player was arguably our greatest player and that was almost 30 years ago.

I'd like to get Nick but this pipeline to Vashon stuff is an urban legend.  Miles.  Hughes.  Beal.  Lee.  Ellis.  Stipo.  White.  Carrawell.  Woods.  Baniak.  Claggett.  Tatum.  Nesbitt.  Nary a one Vashon.  

great post Taj.  imo if there is an area school we should be pipelining with it is Chaminade.   i am not saying we shouldnt recruit vashon.  only we shouldnt be making concessions or taking lesser players in hopes of getting future players from the school.   either they are players that we feel will contribute or not.  

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5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

great post Taj.  imo if there is an area school we should be pipelining with it is Chaminade.   i am not saying we shouldnt recruit vashon.  only we shouldnt be making concessions or taking lesser players in hopes of getting future players from the school.   either they are players that we feel will contribute or not.  

Timing is everything.  Vashon is a reliable source of mid-major players.  But it has to be in a year where it benefits both sides. There will be years where a solid three star freshman plays right away.  Next year just won't be it.

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16 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I think we're all in for Hughes.  But Stacker's better.

Yeah, I know he is short.  That said, I still think Martin could end up having the better college career than both Stacker and Hughes.  Plus, Martin is a almost a year younger than everyone else in his class.  He is ten months younger than LHJ.  I think Martin is really underrated at this point.

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