cgeldmacher Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Can we start some sort of a petition for the NBA to give St. Louis a preseason exhibition game between the Suns and the Celtics? OkieBilliken and Coach314 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 5 hours ago, papal said: We should be able to watch Goodwin on TV more often since the Suns with Durant and company should be on national TV frequently, unlike the Wizards very good point. be fun to see him on a good team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of a bad thing for Jordan? He was going to presumably play for the rebuilding Wizards and now he might not be able to crack the rotation for the Suns super team favored to win the 2024 championship. I think beal should gift him 5M for coming along with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliesBy40 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said: Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of a bad thing for Jordan? He was going to presumably play for the rebuilding Wizards and now he might not be able to crack the rotation for the Suns super team favored to win the 2024 championship. I think beal should gift him 5M for coming along with him. There is a decent chance he becomes the starting PG on a team that will contend for a title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said: There is a decent chance he becomes the starting PG on a team that will contend for a title I would be surprised if he started, but he will get a shot at playing a bunch of minutes off the bench. Being a plus defender that can defend multiple positions is a good spot to be in on a team that will be in a rough cap position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said: Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of a bad thing for Jordan? He was going to presumably play for the rebuilding Wizards and now he might not be able to crack the rotation for the Suns super team favored to win the 2024 championship. I think beal should gift him 5M for coming along with him. I share your concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 It could benefit Goodwin greatly. We have to assume the Suns wanted Goodwin included in the trade. Vogel likes defensive players. Cam Payne will be returning. He was the backup pg. But they have roster spots to fill with players playing on minimum contracts....especially if they keep Ayton. If Goodwin gets in the rotation on a Championship level team and produces it would mean more for the next contract than putting up numbers on a bad Wizards team. RUBillsFan, brianstl, JMM28 and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2023/6/19/23765634/jordan-goodwin-washington-wizards-is-the-cherry-on-top-of-the-phoenix-suns-fleece-job-in-beal-trade rgbilliken, Slu let the dogs out? and SLUMedBilliken15 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, SLU_Nick said: Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of a bad thing for Jordan? He was going to presumably play for the rebuilding Wizards and now he might not be able to crack the rotation for the Suns super team favored to win the 2024 championship. I think beal should gift him 5M for coming along with him. Right now the Suns have 7 players under contract, and very little $$ left over to acquire impact players. Durant, Booker, Beal and Ayton combined will make around $165 million next season. The primary salary cap is $135 m. So they will be well into paying the luxury tax, on just those 4. Goodwin's rather modest $2 million salary is needed by the Suns to fill out their roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 i dont follow the nba much beyond curry(i consider him the greatest shooter i have ever seen. only player that makes me turn on an nba game.) and goodwin, so i have no idea what the suns have. so please someone that watches and follows closely tell us the projected starters and maybe the next 4 reserves and their positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laker119 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 10 hours ago, SLU_Nick said: Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of a bad thing for Jordan? He was going to presumably play for the rebuilding Wizards and now he might not be able to crack the rotation for the Suns super team favored to win the 2024 championship. I think beal should gift him 5M for coming along with him. Phoenix will essentially have no money to sign any depth players of note due to NBA cap restrictions, so I have a hard time seeing a way in which Jordan doesn’t play meaningful minutes. As their roster sits now, Cam Payne (nothing more than a middling backup PG) is the only other primary ball handler on the roster. Plus, Jordan’s defensive versatility will be invaluable, as Beal/Booker are in no way lock down defenders on the perimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, laker119 said: Phoenix will essentially have no money to sign any depth players of note due to NBA cap restrictions, so I have a hard time seeing a way in which Jordan doesn’t play meaningful minutes. As their roster sits now, Cam Payne (nothing more than a middling backup PG) is the only other primary ball handler on the roster. Plus, Jordan’s defensive versatility will be invaluable, as Beal/Booker are in no way lock down defenders on the perimeter. Yes. The Suns have no depth and no money to pay for depth. Today they have seven players under contract, with a few others they can pick up options on. The Draft is Thursday, so they will pick up a "relatively cheap" player or two. I agree, Beal's defense has been on the decline for some time. My guess is they valued Goodwin's minimal contract enough to request him in the trade. @billiken_roy https://fadeawayworld.net/phoenix-suns-potential-starting-lineup-for-the-2023-24-nba-season-is-looking-stacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Coach314 said: If Goodwin gets in the rotation on a Championship level team and produces it would mean more for the next contract than putting up numbers on a bad Wizards team. Spot on. Matthew Dellavedova turned an undrafted spot with a championship Cavs team into a 40 million dollar sign and trade contract where he was traded for a 1st round pick too. A bunch of dudes on the Jordan teams turned that into signing large contracts (for their day) after that era. Luc Longley, Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Goodwin is a salary cap dream. He’s a win for the Suns, regardless if he contributes significantly or not. With that in mind, it’s hard to determine Phoenix plans for him, if they have any at all. This could go either way for Jordan. If he plays it’s a big win, if he sits it’s doomsday for his NBA career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, DOC said: Goodwin is a salary cap dream. He’s a win for the Suns, regardless if he contributes significantly or not. With that in mind, it’s hard to determine Phoenix plans for him, if they have any at all. This could go either way for Jordan. If he plays it’s a big win, if he sits it’s doomsday for his NBA career. The Suns only have pick 52 in Thursday’s draft. They won’t get an impact player there. It will be hard for Phoenix to trade up as they have nothing tradable and they mortgaged this future in the Durant deal. They also can’t sign a significant free agent as they are already over the salary cap. Their window is next season and it seems that they need to see how Goodwin fits with their big 4. He will get a decent chance to show what he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 as much as i want that to happen for jordan, i am guessing they will have beal, booker and even durant serve as their "point guard" and goodwin isnt going to start or play more than the normal < 20 minutes a game second shift stuff. he needs to kick A and prove me wrong. it isnt i dont believe him. actually the opposite. i just feel he wont get a fair shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestPineJunior Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 cheeseman and billiken_roy like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: as much as i want that to happen for jordan, i am guessing they will have beal, booker and even durant serve as their "point guard" and goodwin isnt going to start or play more than the normal < 20 minutes a game second shift stuff. he needs to kick A and prove me wrong. it isnt i dont believe him. actually the opposite. i just feel he wont get a fair shot. Have no idea what you mean by a fair shot. Phoenix was exposed in the playoffs this year with a lack of depth. They have loaded up for a championship run this upcoming season. Their focus is to win. Goodwin needs to figure out the best way to help obtain that goal. This isn’t a CYC team where the coach’s son has the most plays run for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 i believe jordan is borderline starter worthy. at worst imo he should be one of the first 2 off the bench. that is a fair shot result. i fear he will be a lot lower in the rotation and have more limited minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: i believe jordan is borderline starter worthy. at worst imo he should be one of the first 2 off the bench. that is a fair shot result. i fear he will be a lot lower in the rotation and have more limited minutes. That's quite a demand for a guy who was basically the 12th man for the Wizards going to a title contender whose lineup includes Beal, Booker, Durant, and Ayton. He only started 7 games for the Wizards this season, averaging 17.8 MPG. However, he's going to one of the only places where he actually does have a shot at getting some good minutes at PG and becoming a consistent rotation player. The Suns are going to have so much money tied up in their top guys that the roster is going to be filled out with low cost players like Goodwin. It looks like Cameron Payne will be the starting PG at this point, and that shows you how much of a drop-off there is after the top 4. Everyone outside of those guys is going to get chances, and Goodwin is well positioned behind a PG who would be a bench player on most teams. There are plenty of places talking about what a steal he is for the Suns (or a loss for the Wizards), and why he's a fit to their style and roster. He's going to get his shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: i believe jordan is borderline starter worthy. at worst imo he should be one of the first 2 off the bench. that is a fair shot result. i fear he will be a lot lower in the rotation and have more limited minutes. Frank Vogel is the new Suns head coach. If Goodwin is good enough and fits in with the system, Vogel will play him. You stated you don’t watch the NBA. Curious why you think he is borderline starter caliber. almaman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsgo Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pistol said: That's quite a demand for a guy who was basically the 12th man for the Wizards going to a title contender whose lineup includes Beal, Booker, Durant, and Ayton. He only started 7 games for the Wizards this season, averaging 17.8 MPG. However, he's going to one of the only places where he actually does have a shot at getting some good minutes at PG and becoming a consistent rotation player. The Suns are going to have so much money tied up in their top guys that the roster is going to be filled out with low cost players like Goodwin. It looks like Cameron Payne will be the starting PG at this point, and that shows you how much of a drop-off there is after the top 4. Everyone outside of those guys is going to get chances, and Goodwin is well positioned behind a PG who would be a bench player on most teams. There are plenty of places talking about what a steal he is for the Suns (or a loss for the Wizards), and why he's a fit to their style and roster. He's going to get his shot. I think it’s fair to question the talent evaluation of the Wizards when you consider Corey Kispert played 28 minutes a game rgbilliken and Pistol like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 If Goodwin wants to be at borderline starter level he needs to shoot better and cut back a little on the turnovers. He can be a rotation guy right now because of his D, but he will need to improve offensively to get a level at which he is considered a borderline starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Nothing is guaranteed (including Goodwin's contract), but moving from the Wizards to the Suns should be a tremendous positive for him no matter how you look at it. He moves from a team likely to finish near the bottom of the standings to a title contender, but still has arguably just as good a path to playing time given the Suns lack of depth. The Suns aren't the pinnacle of NBA player development / success, but they're not a laughing stock like the Wizards. One of the articles @Pistol linked had a quote calling Goodwin "one of the very few player-development successes the Wizards have had in recent years". I think that says a lot about Goodwin as an individual overcoming the Wizards awful player development and you wonder if he can improve further in a better organization (see Rui Hachimura). The Wizards have incentive to give big minutes to recent high draft picks (see Kispert's minutes that @gobillsgo mentioned). They also have last year's 1st round disappointment Johnny Davis and this year's #8 pick (and could add more draft picks if they sign/trade Kuzma and/or Porzingis). On a team with no incentive to win, those guys might get more run than Goodwin just because they have a perceived higher upside and are getting paid more. Whereas the Suns don't/won't have any such recent high draft picks to compete with. Further their only incentive is to win. If Goodwin is a winning player, he'll get run. It is not difficult to look at a guy like Bruce Brown on Denver and see the role Goodwin can play on a title contender as a gritty defender / hustle guy surrounded by elite offensive pieces. rgbilliken, BrettJollyComedyHour, Lord Elrond and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, gobillsgo said: I think it’s fair to question the talent evaluation of the Wizards when you consider Corey Kispert played 28 minutes a game I think it’s fair to question the talent evaluation of the Wizards when you consider the entire history of the Wizards organization. The excellent example above is one of hundreds highlighting this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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