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Just now, ACE said:

I agree that a back-up PG will not lead us into the Tourney if Yuri misses a lot of time, BUT what about a scenario where you have to weather a 5-6 game absence?  

Not even 5-6 game absence.  Last season Yuri had games where he only played 25 minutes against the bonnies, 29 minutes against Boise state, 29 minutes against UAB , 29 minutes to Memphis, 29 to davidson.. We love Yuri, but there were times last year that given the importance of these games, you're(not you) telling me we should be ok with Thames or fred covering 10+ min against good guards.  No thanks.

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i sure dont remember this sort of stress by the masses when freshman yuri was thrust into the starting role in his second game.   what's the difference?   in fact we are only wondering about thames as a backup maybe 5-10 minutes a game.   yuri became the college untested starter the second game?   it isnt like thames comes with no high school pedigree.  

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3 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Im not sure what that is in response to? All I was pointing out was that we don't have anyone with experience at playing the point on our roster outside of Yuri.  I would be 100% ok with getting a player who lets say averaged 3 points, 2 assists at texas St last year, as long as he actually played a decent amount of time at the point.  At this very point in time I'm not to excited about having 0 players on our roster who have any sort of history at the point position.  The few who we think * could * play a fee minutes at the point next year are either True frosh and neither are true PG's, or Fred who has a injury history. 

There were games last year where we needed a secondary ball handler like Jones to play a decent amount to win games.  We didnt need Jones to score in these games, but manage the point along with Yuri or be a secondary ball handler. 

To your point in the victory over VCU, Jones played 38 minutes alongside Yuri who got 36 mpg. Ford  decided he needed two ball-handlers in that match-up. Can Parker and Pickett be secondary ball-handlers against a team like VCU? 

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Just now, billiken_roy said:

i sure dont remember this sort of stress by the masses when freshman yuri was thrust into the starting role in his second game.   what's the difference?   in fact we are only wondering about thames as a backup maybe 5-10 minutes a game.   yuri became the college untested starter the second game?   it isnt like thames comes with no high school pedigree.  

If yuri can, everyone can.

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Just now, ACE said:

I agree that a back-up PG will not lead us into the Tourney if Yuri misses a lot of time, BUT what about a scenario where you have to weather a 5-6 game absence?  There is usually not a lot of margin for error in the mid-major world we are living in. We would need a semi-competent back-up PG to avoid really bad losses to the bottom half of the A-10. It could be the difference between getting into the Dance or being on the outside of the bubble. I consider it insurance.  I have no idea if Thames can be that guy, I hope so. But I imagine the staff is still shopping with this last scholarship. The supporting cast figures to be a lot stronger this year, which does alleviate a little pressure on the PG position. Yuri was asked to do a LOT last year.

With a 6 game absence in the A10 with Jones as our point guard, we would would lost at least 4 out of 6.  Jones was a solid backup.  He would be the worst starter at point guard in our conference.

The guy you want has to want to come here.  We have very little leverage.  Promising minutes to a guy a year down the road means nothing in 2022.  The reason these kids transferred down or took low major offers in the first place was so they could play now.

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i really think if we look for existing players to fill time, the best choices are perkins and thatch.   of course i have never seen parker play and my memory of pickett at belleville east in high school has a few years between then and now.  

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Just now, wgstl said:

If yuri can, everyone can.

im sure you are being sarcastic but there was no reason to believe the freshman yuri was going to turn out as good as he has.    i felt he was too small and wouldnt be good at all.   he sure showed me.   but again the point is the fandom here isnt giving thames a chance.   

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2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

With a 6 game absence in the A10 with Jones as our point guard, we would would lost at least 4 out of 6.  Jones was a solid backup.  He would be the worst starter at point guard in our conference.

The guy you want has to want to come here.  We have very little leverage.  Promising minutes to a guy a year down the road means nothing in 2022.  The reason these kids transferred down or took low major offers in the first place was so they could play now.

You may be right, but my counter is that we will have a much stronger supporting cast heading into this year - essentially Parker, Perkins and Pickett replacing Nesbitt. 

 

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3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

im sure you are being sarcastic but there was no reason to believe the freshman yuri was going to turn out as good as he has.    i felt he was too small and wouldnt be good at all.   he sure showed me.   but again the point is the fandom here isnt giving thames a chance.   

no, no. I dont want this to come across this way, and I even said earlier that if Thames beats out whoever we can get between now and November, great!

But if Im a betting man, I'd say Thames will not be ready enough to rely on next year.  This is simply because I believe most freshmen just aren't ready, especially early in the year when we play all these good teams. I want Thames to go in and compete for the back up job, not just hand it to him because well we didn't try and get a backup in the portal.  

I just dont see how we can trust every freshman because Yuri was able to play as well as he did as a freshman. 

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

im sure you are being sarcastic but there was no reason to believe the freshman yuri was going to turn out as good as he has.    i felt he was too small and wouldnt be good at all.   he sure showed me.   but again the point is the fandom here isnt giving thames a chance.   

It's not that I'm not giving Thames a chance - I have said I don't know. I've only seen a few highlights. I really have no idea how his game will translate as a college freshman. I certainly hope he's the answer. I hope every player exceeds expectations.

I can't speak for others, my only point is that with one open scholarship, a PG or combo is the obvious spot to try to add some depth. I also understand, this probably is easier said than done with a very experienced team featuring a high level returning PG.

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22 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If Thames couldn't go to a low major and average 8 and 2, we wouldn't have signed him that early.  Phillip Russell left here and averaged 13.5 ppg and 3 the very next year.

Long term, love the thought of 6-6 Thames playing point, combo, swing. Agree the experience and shot creation of Perk, Parker would come in handy as well.

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31 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

 

 

35 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i sure dont remember this sort of stress by the masses when freshman yuri was thrust into the starting role in his second game.   what's the difference?   in fact we are only wondering about thames as a backup maybe 5-10 minutes a game.   yuri became the college untested starter the second game?   it isnt like thames comes with no high school pedigree.  

Completely agree. We've had numerous players get plenty of minutes at pg as frosh over the years. 

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19 minutes ago, Coach314 said:

So with Javonte, Gibson, Fred, Parker, Pickett and Hargrove on the wing you guys think it will be hard for Thames to give Yuri a 5-10 min breather in which all Thames has to do is bring the ball up, initiate the offense with a pass and play solid defense?  

We face Havoc only once or twice a year.  Most of the time we see token pressure on the ball as it is brought up court.  That isn't an issue. 

The issue is running the offense.  When Jones was running the show, it wasn't the same as with Collins.  A few times Thatch handled that task of running the offense, and resetting the offense when the play fell apart.  So will the second string Sr transfer PG from Eastern Illinois know our offense better than Thames or Thatch.  I'd rather go 20-12 with Thames/Thatch than go 20-12 with PG Eastern Illinois.

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

no, no. I dont want this to come across this way, and I even said earlier that if Thames beats out whoever we can get between now and November, great!

But if Im a betting man, I'd say Thames will not be ready enough to rely on next year.  This is simply because I believe most freshmen just aren't ready, especially early in the year when we play all these good teams. I want Thames to go in and compete for the back up job, not just hand it to him because well we didn't try and get a backup in the portal.  

I just dont see how we can trust every freshman because Yuri was able to play as well as he did as a freshman. 

Not ready enough to play 5-10 minute a game? Then why recruit him???  

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43 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

We face Havoc only once or twice a year.  Most of the time we see token pressure on the ball as it is brought up court.  That isn't an issue. 

The issue is running the offense.  When Jones was running the show, it wasn't the same as with Collins.  A few times Thatch handled that task of running the offense, and resetting the offense when the play fell apart.  So will the second string Sr transfer PG from Eastern Illinois know our offense better than Thames or Thatch.  I'd rather go 20-12 with Thames/Thatch than go 20-12 with PG Eastern Illinois.

"It wasn't the same as with Collins". Exactly because Yuri pushed the envelope and created offense for players who couldn't create their own. Hopefully with the 3 P's and even Thatch was starting to come on at the end of the year and imo was beginning to show the ability to create his own  

It should be different this year and like you I'm ok with our in house options. 

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1 hour ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Not ready enough to play 5-10 minute a game? Then why recruit him???  

Why do we recruit 3-4 players every single year that aren’t ready enough to earn minutes??

 

You sound like a fan of a small major who just wants these kids to have fun, and winning is just a bonus. 

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17 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Why do we recruit 3-4 players every single year that aren’t ready enough to earn minutes??

 

You sound like a fan of a small major who just wants these kids to have fun, and winning is just a bonus. 

Thames had an early offer from SLU, he certainly wasn’t brought in to just fill a roster spot. It seems like the one with a “small major” mentality is you... I, unlike you apparently, trust in our coaches ability to assess talent. 

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30 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Why do we recruit 3-4 players every single year that aren’t ready enough to earn minutes??

 

You sound like a fan of a small major who just wants these kids to have fun, and winning is just a bonus. 

We don't, in the fall.  Roster spots 11-13 are usually spring signees, when we're filling out the roster.  If a guy in the fall can't get on the floor it's because there are multiple 30+ minute a game guys in front of him.

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4 hours ago, wgstl said:

Im not sure what that is in response to? All I was pointing out was that we don't have anyone with experience at playing the point on our roster outside of Yuri.  I would be 100% ok with getting a player who lets say averaged 3 points, 2 assists at texas St last year, as long as he actually played a decent amount of time at the point.  At this very point in time I'm not to excited about having 0 players on our roster who have any sort of history at the point position.  The few who we think * could * play a fee minutes at the point next year are either True frosh and neither are true PG's, or Fred who has a injury history. 

There were games last year where we needed a secondary ball handler like Jones to play a decent amount to win games.  We didnt need Jones to score in these games, but manage the point along with Yuri or be a secondary ball handler. 

One game that stands out w/Jones was v VCU. He and Yurimania played a lot of minutes together and we beat them rather handily. Two good ball handlers will be needed against pressing teams. If Yuri’s the only one he’ll get hammered and tired. We just need to find a guy who can relieve some of the pressure he’ll be faced with. 

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I have asked if Thames was the 5 to 10 minute answer since we signed him.  I have never really gotten an answer and all the above discussion further raises the questions.  I hope he is and I have some hope Hughes can do some stuff as well.

Every team in the A10 has the same issue with their starting PGs.  If the starter goes down, everyone has problems.  At Umass it's Fernandes.  At Dayton it's Smith.  At VCU Baldwin.  At Davidson it's Loyer.  At SLU it's Collins.  Loyola has Norris.  Duquesne has three unknows.  GeeDubya has Bishop who's really a 2G  And the rest don't deserve a mention as of yet ala Duquesne.  So it's who remains standing when the smoke clears.

No one in the league pressures like VCU.  And they are not the HAVOC of old.  But it was noted Ford went with two ballhandlers there last year for all but 6 minutes of the game.  None of the A10 teams other than VCU pressure much.  They will try to deny the PG the inbounds and .apply token pressure to at least half court but that is designed to limit your time on the 30 second clock in the front court.  Most college teams do this as part of their overall defense.  We all bemoan the five-second fire drill many employ as the shot clock expires.  This is the college defensive game at work.  

Our roster seems to be a stable of twos and threes.  Somewhere, the staff has to believe Collins paired with Perkins, Pickett, Parker, Jimerson, Hargrove, Kramer, Thames and Hughes HAS to work.  If they are fine with that, so am I.

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Not one non power 5 program or even many of them could prosper with the loss of their best player. Post Perkins Billikens are a case in point.  We lose Perk or Yuri  or Francis or Gibby or Fred or whoever we might be f'ed.  Join the damn club.......

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Desi Sills off the board to K State.  Phil Forte had been following an old Twitter account of Sills, but no other indication SLU was on him.  He seemed like the last semi-realistic PG/combo G option that would be sort of a no brainer to add in terms of talent.

 

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15 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Thames had an early offer from SLU, he certainly wasn’t brought in to just fill a roster spot. It seems like the one with a “small major” mentality is you... I, unlike you apparently, trust in our coaches ability to assess talent. 

You're satisfied with unproven players.  I'd like to get as many players in and let them compete, but ok. 

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