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Saw report LSU has all 13 spots open

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy Chitwood said:

Ridiculous. NCAA has to fix the transfer portal

Unfortunately it's too late, that genie is never going back in the bottle. If the NCAA had taken a slightly more lenient approach over the years with regard to transfers and among other things NOT allowed coaches to dictate where a player could transfer, then the transfer portal as we now know it would not exist. 

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13 hours ago, MichaelC said:

Unfortunately it's too late, that genie is never going back in the bottle. If the NCAA had taken a slightly more lenient approach over the years with regard to transfers and among other things NOT allowed coaches to dictate where a player could transfer, then the transfer portal as we now know it would not exist. 

The NCAA could get colleges to vote to set up a process that is not as lenient as it is now.  The question is will enough schools/coaches push for this?

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imo the future of college basketball is now going to be any team outside of the 5-6 power conferences will be more or less a farm system for them.   i would bet within ten years they will break away from the ncaa tourney and have their own season ending tourney and national championship.   NIL and the lenient transfer rules will destroy college basketball as we know it.  

the only chance to save it is to make the academic requirements and enforcement of such extremely tough.   make it necessary that the athletes are true student athletes.   my guess is that a large majority of the players concerned dont want to be students and will instead head to the nba asap or go to the g league or foreign leagues.   they want to play basketball not read books and study engineering.   

take away the want to play college basketball if it means having to actually study to pass classes and get a degree.   

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2 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

over time i think the transfer portal will settle down when players find that they dont have as many places to go as they thought they would have and end up no where or a much lower level

if the nil takes off it wont be the end of the bench transferring it will be the players on the court looking for a bigger paycheck and more visibility and the more flexible transfer rules will make that happen.  

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The courts ruled that players are entitled to benefit from their name, image and likeness just like any other person.  I'd bet that if transfer rules were to be tightened that a legal challenge to them would make them lenient.  If a non-student athlete can transfer schools and engage in the activities they engage in that make them more "employable" then why can't a student athlete?  To constrain them arbitrarily undermines their employability.  The defense that fans like a non-power basketball school and/or want to cheer for players dedicated to their team is not a legal argument.

 

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23 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The courts ruled that players are entitled to benefit from their name, image and likeness just like any other person.  I'd bet that if transfer rules were to be tightened that a legal challenge to them would make them lenient.  If a non-student athlete can transfer schools and engage in the activities they engage in that make them more "employable" then why can't a student athlete?  To constrain them arbitrarily undermines their employability.  The defense that fans like a non-power basketball school and/or want to cheer for players dedicated to their team is not a legal argument.

 

Thus make all enforcement about academics.   They're supposed to be students first.   I'm betting the major athletes couldn't care less about being students

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Why is anyone upset about LSU?  They are they perfect example of a program where all the kids should be able to transfer freely.  They have a new coach and have received notice they are about to get hammered by the NCAA.

Exactly.  Cheaters get smashed in the era of free agency.  Unless they're one of the four untouchable Blue Bloods of course.

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1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The courts ruled that players are entitled to benefit from their name, image and likeness just like any other person.  I'd bet that if transfer rules were to be tightened that a legal challenge to them would make them lenient.  If a non-student athlete can transfer schools and engage in the activities they engage in that make them more "employable" then why can't a student athlete?  To constrain them arbitrarily undermines their employability.  The defense that fans like a non-power basketball school and/or want to cheer for players dedicated to their team is not a legal argument.

 

How is tightening up the portal rules impinging on the NIL issue.  The kid can make all he can.  The signing of a NLI with a school could simply carry with it a clause that requires certain items being satisfied before entering the portal that is applicable to all NCAA member schools.  As Roy said if a player doesn't want to go to school then they can pursue whatever they want.

 

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I don't understand the fears of mid majors becoming farm teams for P6, unless they are going to suddenly allow P6 to have A and B teams or something. They still have the same number of roster spots and same number of minutes available. The portal cuts both ways and for every player they "farm" from us, one of their also really good players will be transferring down. 

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9 hours ago, cheeseman said:

How is tightening up the portal rules impinging on the NIL issue.  The kid can make all he can.  The signing of a NLI with a school could simply carry with it a clause that requires certain items being satisfied before entering the portal that is applicable to all NCAA member schools.  As Roy said if a player doesn't want to go to school then they can pursue whatever they want.

 

Not directly related but related.  NIL set a precedence that players can use the courts to get relief from undue burdens placed on them not placed on other students.  The transfer rule is another undue burden.  If I'm a SLU Presidential Scholar on a full ride active in SAB and I transfer to Wash U. I don't have to sit out a year to take part in SAB.  That is an undue burden on a student athlete that is not applied to other students.  So I would venture that if the NCAA tried to return to the old  transfer rules then they would have push back and likely in the courts.  This is speculation on my part.

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10 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Not directly related but related.  NIL set a precedence that players can use the courts to get relief from undue burdens placed on them not placed on other students.  The transfer rule is another undue burden.  If I'm a SLU Presidential Scholar on a full ride active in SAB and I transfer to Wash U. I don't have to sit out a year to take part in SAB.  That is an undue burden on a student athlete that is not applied to other students.  So I would venture that if the NCAA tried to return to the old  transfer rules then they would have push back and likely in the courts.  This is speculation on my part.

The Presidential Scholarship is unique to SLU.  No school is required to give these unique scholarships out so they can put any reasonable requirements on them.  The transfer issue is one that can be dealt with without penalizing the player but perhaps the school - like in the MLB you sign a top free agent then you lose a  draft pick.  

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I can see kids using an exceptional year at a non-Power 5+1 conference using it to jump up in level of play.  This could be done for the bright lights of the big city or moving closer to home.  A lotof it coudl be for more playing time.  I'd love to see someone do a report on last year's transfer portal and see how many traded "up," how many traded "down," and really how many were men left without a country or team to play for.  I seem to recall the Yankees doing this in the decades prior to free agency --- trading prospects for the guy doing well at small market Kansas City or somewhere.  

I don't have a problem with kids making bucks off their own NIL.  I do have a problem with corporations or individual donors or alumni groups just engaged in fund raising efforts to "buy" players.  I think the real enforcement will come from a real government agency --- the IRS.  A kid gets $1 million in a certain year to play for Texas or Alabama --- what happens when the tax man cometh?  Income is still income last I saw.  In this vein, I expect more fallout to occur.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

I can see kids using an exceptional year at a non-Power 5+1 conference using it to jump up in level of play.  This could be done for the bright lights of the big city or moving closer to home.  A lotof it coudl be for more playing time.  I'd love to see someone do a report on last year's transfer portal and see how many traded "up," how many traded "down," and really how many were men left without a country or team to play for.  I seem to recall the Yankees doing this in the decades prior to free agency --- trading prospects for the guy doing well at small market Kansas City or somewhere.  

I don't have a problem with kids making bucks off their own NIL.  I do have a problem with corporations or individual donors or alumni groups just engaged in fund raising efforts to "buy" players.  I think the real enforcement will come from a real government agency --- the IRS.  A kid gets $1 million in a certain year to play for Texas or Alabama --- what happens when the tax man cometh?  Income is still income last I saw.  In this vein, I expect more fallout to occur.

I think it is entirely possible for groups of team supporters to get large amounts of money to "buy" a specific player for a given year. There are problems with this approach, first of all is the continuation of the buyout price. Donors that give X amounts of money in some year may not be willing or able to continue giving at the same level next year. Then there is the issue of taxes that Taj mentioned, kids generally do not consider taxes when making a deal. Then there is the issue of paying a lot of money for a player that is expected to do very well, and then the expectation is not realized for whatever reason, including injuries. If that happens, what happens then to the money? All kinds of issues like these must be considered before starting a formal drive to collect money to pay a large NIL to "pay" a player. There are not only tax issues involved (how is this expense declared at tax time by the donors?), but there are recurring performance, injury, and both maintenance of payment levels and or increase/decrease of the  payment levels. It is possible that paying a player might eventually be considered by the IRS as the player having an employment relationship to the group of donors. The list of potential issues goes on and on, and includes legal action by the player against the donors if they have issues with the payments.

And no, I do not  consider that these issues would be significant if the level of payment is low, like $200 per month or so. However, if the payment goes into or over the 6 figures, the IRS will eventually investigate and may make all kinds of unexpected rulings in this regard. Rulings that may be made retroactive by the IRS in some circumstances. My best advise is to avoid trouble with the IRS in every way you as an individual or as a donor can avoid it.

To summarize, make sure you know what you are walking into before you walk into it. Like you have read repeatedly over the last few years: "actions have consequences."

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Of course you have to pay income tax on NIL money. 

 

As for regulating big (or size team) teams fans?  Good luck there will always be a loop hole that can be exploited.  Laws or NCAA regulations will never change at the speed of obsessed fan determination to win.   Also who's to say my 501C paying a player to represent my charity at the local children's hospital isn't a valid use of donations to my charity?  Compared to a player being on a car commercial for local dealership.

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8 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

As for regulating big (or size team) teams fans?  Good luck there will always be a loop hole that can be exploited.  Laws or NCAA regulations will never change at the speed of obsessed fan determination to win.   Also who's to say my 501C paying a player to represent my charity at the local children's hospital isn't a valid use of donations to my charity?  Compared to a player being on a car commercial for local dealership.

What you describe can surely be done. Any amount of money in the 3 or low 4 figures you donate to a charity of some kind is likely to pass through the IRS review without much concern on their part, but only as long as your taxable income for the year is enough to justify the amount donated. When you start getting to higher levels of cash donations, the level of interest generated during the IRS review is likely to increase. This is generally not a good development.

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On 4/2/2022 at 9:39 AM, billiken_roy said:

Thus make all enforcement about academics.   They're supposed to be students first.   I'm betting the major athletes couldn't care less about being students

Three part fix:

1. Someone has to make the NBA and NFL form legitimate farms systems that can handle kids coming right out of high school.  I know that the NBA has the G-league, but there has to be an expansion to handle all kids that want to go pro but not to college.  Those kids deserve a chance to get to the highest level without being forced to go to college.

2. Make a rule that if you go to college, you cannot be drafted for three years.  This will ensure that players who go to college are there for college and not just to improve the chances of going pro.

3. Increase the academic requirements.

The above will still result in a competitive balance, as the kids who want to go to college will spread out among the institutions playing their sport.  However, it will ensure that college is for students and pro ball is for those that want to be professionals.

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@cgeldmacher: while your idea is acceptable. why should the pro leagues spend their god given war chests to create a cost expenditure when those farm systems already exist in the college game(s).  The USFL might work as an example and farm league as I suspect most of the guys there are playing to get to "the League" eventually.  

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