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Big East expansion coming?


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For what it's worth, here is the annual basketball budget for some relevant schools based on the latest info I can find (2019). The first number is the national ranking

8 Marquette: $15.0 million
10 Villanova: $14.4
12 Georgetown: $13.6
20 Providence: $11.1
27 Gonzaga: $10.5
34 St. John's: $10.0
41 Uconn: $9.3
51 Creighton: $8.6
60 Wichita St.: $8.2
68 Seton Hall: $7.5
71 Dayton: $7.4
72 Saint Louis: $7.4

73 Xavier: $7.4
80 DePaul: $6.8
87 VCU: $6.1
90 Butler: $5.8
 

These numbers change every year and can vary based on variety of factors (facilities upgrades, coaching buyouts, etc.). I post it only to get a rough sense of what the investment is like across the big east and how SLU and other possible additions would fit into that landscape. Obviously having better TV contracts like the big east teams do will allow more financial flexibility than the teams in the A-10 have.

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I’m not sure this ‘blocking’ phenomena will stand the test of time. Supposedly X would blocl Dayton and DePaul would block Loyola. Look at the ‘special rules’ that are being left behind with the movement of OU and Texas to the SEC. Supposedly OKState and OU were tied as a package deal. Supposedly Texas A&M could block Texas. Didn’t happen. 

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1 hour ago, kshoe said:

This is exactly right. When the commish goes public on something like this it's not because they want to discuss it two years later; it's because they want to do it now.  

I agree and also, they may want to give schools a few years to work the financials out if they have to pay to leave their current conference.  I could see a school like SLU going on a donation drive to help defer the buyout.  But then again who knows what is going to happen.

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14 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That doesn't add nearly as much game inventory as adding more teams.  With more teams a media partner not only gets all of those teams conference games, it gets all those teams home non conference games.

Certainly don't disagree - whatever number of teams they land on my main point is that expansion has seemed inevitable. The question remains how many and when.

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Our concerns are threefold 1. Being attractive to existing Big East members.  2. Be relevant in college basketball.  3. Having the right leadership at President and athletic director. 

 

The vote for expansion is by college presidents.   The ADs and conference commissioner will make a pitch for expansion candidates based on factors we already discussed.   I think how many viewers/subscribers the candidate brings has got to be the top factor.  Do Pestello and May have the political chops/ connections to put SLU in a position to get invited?  It's like getting your city a chance to host the Olympics you gotta market yourself, brand, region, city....

I'm not overly optimistic about Pestello and May.  I'm biased and think SLU is the right choice but it's gotta be sold to the BE.

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26 minutes ago, NH said:

Obviously having better TV contracts like the big east teams do will allow more financial flexibility than the teams in the A-10 have.

Not just TV contracts.  Attendance would greatly improve playing a Big East conference schedule versus the A10 schedule.  Ticket prices (both individual game & season tickets) would likely go up with the increased demand.  Add in extra concessions & parking revenue with more people at games plus more merchandise sales and you have a good revenue bump.

I'd hope with the extra revenue we'd be spending more toward the middle of the pack in the Big East instead of the bottom 3rd.  I doubt we'd spend like Marquette, G-Town and Nova, but no reason it might not be in the St. Johns - Creighton range.

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1 hour ago, thatskablamo said:

Is there a thing about major metro areas not being allowed to carry multiple in-conference schools? Asking on behalf of LaSalle, Temple AND St Joes, once in-city A-10 foes for a time. 

No but conferences usually have a clause that allows any school to block another school.  Cities that have more than one team in the same conference probably had those same schools together and so the clause did not apply then.

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35 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I’m not sure this ‘blocking’ phenomena will stand the test of time. Supposedly X would blocl Dayton and DePaul would block Loyola. Look at the ‘special rules’ that are being left behind with the movement of OU and Texas to the SEC. Supposedly OKState and OU were tied as a package deal. Supposedly Texas A&M could block Texas. Didn’t happen. 

Assuming your point is valid - DePaul has no interest in letting Loyola in and frankly the BE doesn't gain anything with Loyola in.  The same is true for Dayton and X.  Now if Gonzaga was in Chicago then DePaul can suck eggs.  It makes much more sense to add a new team from non overlapping TV market.

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The Big East sounds great. Sometimes though, we should appreciate how good the A10 has been for SLU. How many times did we go under .500 in CUSA, which had Louisville, Cinncy, Memphis, Houston, etc. In the A10, we are currently trending towards becoming the 800 pound gorilla. We could rip off a string of 20-25 win seasons. It has its perks.

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17 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Our concerns are threefold 1. Being attractive to existing Big East members.  2. Be relevant in college basketball.  3. Having the right leadership at President and athletic director. 

 

The vote for expansion is by college presidents.   The ADs and conference commissioner will make a pitch for expansion candidates based on factors we already discussed.   I think how many viewers/subscribers the candidate brings has got to be the top factor.  Do Pestello and May have the political chops/ connections to put SLU in a position to get invited?  It's like getting your city a chance to host the Olympics you gotta market yourself, brand, region, city....

I'm not overly optimistic about Pestello and May.  I'm biased and think SLU is the right choice but it's gotta be sold to the BE.

Of course you have to sell yourself and honestly Pesty has done fairly well in the money part.  May will do what he is told and actually having spoke to him over the years by sense was that Father B was holding him back the last time.  The other point I would add is that since we play in the A10 we already have a following in the east and the ability to travel east.

 

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27 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Assuming your point is valid - DePaul has no interest in letting Loyola in and frankly the BE doesn't gain anything with Loyola in.  The same is true for Dayton and X.  Now if Gonzaga was in Chicago then DePaul can suck eggs.  It makes much more sense to add a new team from non overlapping TV market.

Please explain “doesn’t gain anything”.  The bottom lone  is TV contract. Nothing else matters. 
 

And how much influence does the worst team in the Big East have?  Do you think the Big East is happy with their position in Chicago? I don’t know what their media Chicago media numbers reveal. DePaul attendance is woeful and they are always behind Notre Dame and Northwestern in media coverage. 

With every game on some form of TV, cable or other streaming platform, there really is no such thing as a new media market. Dayton has a proven enthusiastic fan base and one that travels well.  I don’t know how the Flyers do on tv ratings as say compared to SLU, but my guess is that they lead the A10. 

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Just now, SLURadioBoy said:

Here’s The Athletic’s story about potential Big East expansion. Dana O’Neill breaks down the potential schools but lumps SLU, Dayton and VCU together:

https://theathletic.com/2889432/2021/10/14/expansion-is-an-option-for-the-big-east-heres-who-the-conference-could-target/?source=user_shared_article

dang,  paywall. 

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4 minutes ago, SLURadioBoy said:

Here’s The Athletic’s story about potential Big East expansion. Dana O’Neill breaks down the potential schools but lumps SLU, Dayton and VCU together:

https://theathletic.com/2889432/2021/10/14/expansion-is-an-option-for-the-big-east-heres-who-the-conference-could-target/?source=user_shared_article

She mentions that the a10 schools don't move the needle, but a post-Moser Loyola does? Wichita does? Come on

 

Gonzaga/KU/ND are the only ones that actually move the needle, but I'd be really surprised if any of those happen for a variety of reasons

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2 hours ago, brianstl said:

NCAA tournament appearances in the last decade....

Nova-8

Xavier-6

Creighton-6

Butler-5

Providence-5

SLU-4

Georgetown-4

UConn-4

Seton Hall-4

Marquette-4

St. John's-2

DePaul-0

 

Most recent NCAA tournament appearance

Nova-2021

Creighton-2021

UConn-2021

Georgetown-2021

SLU-2019

Seton Hall-2019

St. John's-2019

Marquette-2019

Xavier-2018

Providence-2018

Butler-2018

DePaul-2004

 

Our on court history record over the last decade is more than good enough for the Big East.

I’m too lazy and dumb to search But is there a way to find out the most recent date each of these teams was ranked in the top 25? I feel like we would be in the top half of that category as well. 

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People need to stop thinking in terms of TV markets.   That's the 90s.  In 2021 it's all about how many subscribers can you bring to the streaming service.  Therefore,  having 2 teams in a city doesn't really matter to the conference. 

I recognize that 2 teams in the city matters to the school for recruiting purposes.   I'll disagree with @cheeseman on the clause to block a member from entering.   For the SEC, I've heard that it was a "gentleman's agreement " we see how far that went for the Gags.  I haven't heard of 1 in the B12, I can't think of a time when such a clause has been used.  Plus if the entire BE is on board you think the DePaul president is going to hold out?  12 Angry Men style?  Nah.

So if you're an ESPN+ subscriber or whatever sports streaming service add SLU as a favorite, encourage others.   The man behind the curtain pulling the real levers of power,  TV contracts, knows who brings the eyeballs.  Winning will bump our numbers. 

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Please explain “doesn’t gain anything”.  The bottom lone  is TV contract. Nothing else matters. 
 

And how much influence does the worst team in the Big East have?  Do you think the Big East is happy with their position in Chicago? I don’t know what their media Chicago media numbers reveal. DePaul attendance is woeful and they are always behind Notre Dame and Northwestern in media coverage. 

With every game on some form of TV, cable or other streaming platform, there really is no such thing as a new media market. Dayton has a proven enthusiastic fan base and one that travels well.  I don’t know how the Flyers do on tv ratings as say compared to SLU, but my guess is that they lead the A10. 

Market share is king for TV ratings - I doubt Loyola carries that much weight over DePaul - after all if you want to watch Georgetown or Villanova do you really care if they are playing the Blue Devils or the Ramblers?  

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1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

She mentions that the a10 schools don't move the needle, but a post-Moser Loyola does? Wichita does? Come on

 

Gonzaga/KU/ND are the only ones that actually move the needle, but I'd be really surprised if any of those happen for a variety of reasons

It does if you're giving out lifetime achievement awards for departed coaches.  They'd fit right in with Depaul.

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22 hours ago, brianstl said:

NCAA tournament appearances in the last decade....

Nova-8

Xavier-6

Creighton-6

Butler-5

Providence-5

SLU-4

Georgetown-4

UConn-4

Seton Hall-4

Marquette-4

St. John's-2

DePaul-0

 

Most recent NCAA tournament appearance

Nova-2021

Creighton-2021

UConn-2021

Georgetown-2021

SLU-2019

Seton Hall-2019

St. John's-2019

Marquette-2019

Xavier-2018

Providence-2018

Butler-2018

DePaul-2004

 

Our on court history record over the last decade is more than good enough for the Big East.

-our competition for a spot isn't current BEast members but I have to think at least to some degree it is the perception of our program(s) in the eyes of current BEast members 

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On 10/14/2021 at 1:35 PM, AnkielBreakers said:

The Big East sounds great. Sometimes though, we should appreciate how good the A10 has been for SLU. How many times did we go under .500 in CUSA, which had Louisville, Cinncy, Memphis, Houston, etc. In the A10, we are currently trending towards becoming the 800 pound gorilla. We could rip off a string of 20-25 win seasons. It has its perks.

This is where I'm at too. I'm warming up to the reality of being in the A10 long term. To those who want Gonzaga in the Big East, careful what you wish for. They could be the George Mason of the conference.

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