O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)

[willie]

47 minutes ago, Adman said:

Brian, not sure the timing is accurate. While the deal may be signed in the short term (for 25-26,) it is possible the Beast does not need to be specific as to teams they must add at that time. There may be a clause allowing them to add schools at a later date from a larger list of possible schools (subject to FOX and other network approval.)

If that's not the situation, then the game's already over. We know the Beast has said we "have to win." That hasn't happened and it won't by the end of July.

I tend to believe the Beast has had significant discussions with our AD and given us a list of things we must accomplish to be considered. One of them is NIL funding and we're already well on our way to the thick of Beast NIL spending. Getting off to a great start in 24-25 would be another. Top 25 ranking would be another. Lots of good national press, too.

We'll see. The clock is indeed ticking.

I like to think I am fairly tapped into what’s going on with our program. You make several statements which I would hope might be true but I had not heard any rumors about. Have we had any conversations with the Beast or is that just your conjecture? If you have knowledge about a list of conditions I would think that is a huge positive. If there are any discussions I would be thrilled but I have serious doubts. 

[Adman]

11 minutes ago, willie said:

I like to think I am fairly tapped into what’s going on with our program. You make several statements which I would hope might be true but I had not heard any rumors about. Have we had any conversations with the Beast or is that just your conjecture? If you have knowledge about a list of conditions I would think that is a huge positive. If there are any discussions I would be thrilled but I have serious doubts. 

Willie, most of what I mentioned were commonly known things and educated guesses. And some intelligence.

It is commonly known that SLU has been in touch with the Beast. This, I gather, has been a reasonably ongoing discussion. How often, how recent? Not sure. The Beast themselves recently announced they'd been in touch with various schools and decided not to expand at this time due to possible expansion candidates lacking in various criteria they'd established. This shouldn't be news.

As to whether the Beast could sign a TV contract with the network(s) in the next month without a final agreement on the schools, that's my opinion based on experience in the advertising/media industry. There are always ways to cut a deal as the many lawyers on this board can attest.

I have no list from the Beast nor do I know that one exists. That said, in the discussions SLU has had, it would be preposterous that the Beast hasn't been clear as to why we haven't measured up. This is educated guess... common sense. They know us. We know them. It's common courtesy.

They know our facilities match up -- and in some ways likely better -- than many of theirs. They know our basketball budgets are in the middle of Beast budgets. We pay well for head coaches. They know our educational institution matches most of theirs. Catholic. Jesuit. They know our endowment is quite excellent. We're in a good TV market with a history of supporting our pro teams as well as the Bills. Don't forget: the Bills were #4 in the country in average attendance during some of the Spoon years. No NBA team. Our women's bball and both soccer teams compete at high levels. All good. We'd help create a Midwest branch of the Beast.

Where don't we match up? (The "list" I mention.) Again, I'm not sure there is a list. But it should be no secret to anyone on this board what it would contain. Lack of NCAA appearances and the "units" that pay significant revenue into the Beast. We don't win when it matters. Every discussion I've ever heard from SLU officials on this topic starts and ends with "... we just gotta win." Lack of being an "important" program in the eyes of the national press, member schools and their fans. SLU has also been slow to NIL. That's no secret. Our budget for this in 2023-24 was nowhere close to the Beast. I would be shocked if that wasn't part of Beast discussions. We must compete for players. There's no way we could hang in the Beast without funding NIL. My information is that SLU's plan IS to compete at Beast NIL funding levels. Do you think we just recruited Robbie Avila and an almost entirely new roster this year on a relatively tiny NIL budget??  Absolutely not. I have no idea what any of them are being paid. But it's clear we're competing -- if not at Beast levels yet -- well on our way.

And if I'm right, SLU is already beginning to change things - as we all know. We're making all kinds of national press waves with Schertz' hiring and Avila's signing. We're showing up in multiple pre-season polls. A real merchandising program. We're recruiting on a much higher level. We're competing. And I'm very optimistic.

Now we just gotta win. Sooner better than later.

[willie]

3 minutes ago, Adman said:

Willie, most of what I mentioned were commonly known things and educated guesses. And some intelligence.

It is commonly known that SLU has been in touch with the Beast. This, I gather, has been a reasonably ongoing discussion. How often, how recent? Not sure. The Beast themselves recently announced they'd been in touch with various schools and decided not to expand at this time due to possible expansion candidates lacking in various criteria they'd established. This shouldn't be news.

As to whether the Beast could sign a TV contract with the network(s) in the next month without a final agreement on the schools, that's my opinion based on experience in the advertising/media industry. There are always ways to cut a deal as the many lawyers on this board can attest.

I have no list from the Beast nor do I know that one exists. That said, in the discussions SLU has had, it would be preposterous that the Beast hasn't been clear as to why we haven't measured up. This is educated guess... common sense. They know us. We know them. It's common courtesy.

They know our facilities match up -- and in some ways likely better -- than many of theirs. They know our basketball budgets are in the middle of Beast budgets. We pay well for head coaches. They know our educational institution matches most of theirs. Catholic. Jesuit. They know our endowment is quite excellent. We're in a good TV market with a history of supporting our pro teams as well as the Bills. Don't forget: the Bills were #4 in the country in average attendance during some of the Spoon years. No NBA team. Our women's bball and both soccer teams compete at high levels. All good. We'd help create a Midwest branch of the Beast.

Where don't we match up? (The "list" I mention.) Again, I'm not sure there is a list. But it should be no secret to anyone on this board what it would contain. Lack of NCAA appearances and the "units" that pay significant revenue into the Beast. We don't win when it matters. Every discussion I've ever heard from SLU officials on this topic starts and ends with "... we just gotta win." Lack of being an "important" program in the eyes of the national press, member schools and their fans. SLU has also been slow to NIL. That's no secret. Our budget for this in 2023-24 was nowhere close to the Beast. I would be shocked if that wasn't part of Beast discussions. We must compete for players. There's no way we could hang in the Beast without funding NIL. My information is that SLU's plan IS to compete at Beast NIL funding levels. Do you think we just recruited Robbie Avila and an almost entirely new roster this year on a relatively tiny NIL budget??  Absolutely not. I have no idea what any of them are being paid. But it's clear we're competing -- if not at Beast levels yet -- well on our way.

And if I'm right, SLU is already beginning to change things - as we all know. We're making all kinds of national press waves with Schertz' hiring and Avila's signing. We're showing up in multiple pre-season polls. A real merchandising program. We're recruiting on a much higher level. We're competing. And I'm very optimistic.

Now we just gotta win. Sooner better than later.

I don’t disagree with anything you say but it is all conjecture. I was hoping you had some real knowledge and don’t take that as a criticism. I am just not sure their is anything going on from our side besides hope. 

[almaman]

54 minutes ago, willie said:

I don’t disagree with anything you say but it is all conjecture. I was hoping you had some real knowledge and don’t take that as a criticism. I am just not sure their is anything going on from our side besides hope. 

good luck finding real knowledge here.

The conjecture does seem have merit but I thought that when we were drooling about getting in last decade. Making it even more likely now imo is the last few years of conferences have become as fluid as gender in Desantis's  vision of hell.

[Old guy]

I do not want to rain upon anybody's party, but I want to remind you all that Pestello is leaving and that so far there is no successor chosen. I have to assume there is a search going on, but as of now Pestello is on the way out and we have no designated successor. This fact may make it difficult to join the Big East this summer. Things may be different next summer assuming we will have a very good 2024-25 season under Schertz. 

 

[billiken_roy]

6 hours ago, Old guy said:

I do not want to rain upon anybody's party, but I want to remind you all that Pestello is leaving and that so far there is no successor chosen. I have to assume there is a search going on, but as of now Pestello is on the way out and we have no designated successor. This fact may make it difficult to join the Big East this summer. Things may be different next summer assuming we will have a very good 2024-25 season under Schertz. 

 

i am not impressed with Pesty and as far as i am concerned, you or I would be a suitable replacement for the likes of him.   not a big deal if the BoT isnt looking for an upgrade.   he is easily replaced for his performance imo.

[slu72]

If we are smart Pesty’s replacement will come from a school in the Beast. A person who is well liked and respected by Beast powers that be. It’s been said we got passed over by Creighton and Butler because of Biondi’s arrogance. Sometimes it’s not what you know but who you know. It wouldn’t hurt to have a Beast old boys clubber lobbying for our entry to the club. 

[Adman]

3 hours ago, slu72 said:

If we are smart Pesty’s replacement will come from a school in the Beast. A person who is well liked and respected by Beast powers that be. It’s been said we got passed over by Creighton and Butler because of Biondi’s arrogance. Sometimes it’s not what you know but who you know. It wouldn’t hurt to have a Beast old boys clubber lobbying for our entry to the club. 

I agree with this and should point out that in addition, there are already multiple members of the current BOT that would fit that bill.

[TheA_Bomb]

3 minutes ago, Adman said:

I agree with this and should point out that in addition, there are already multiple members of the current BOT that would fit that bill.

Yeah I thought the same thing, looked into a few of them and they're retiring.  But that doesn't mean there aren't others.

[sludevil]

16 hours ago, Adman said:

Brian, not sure the timing is accurate. While the deal may be signed in the short term (for 25-26,) it is possible the Beast does not need to be specific as to teams they must add at that time. There may be a clause allowing them to add schools at a later date from a larger list of possible schools (subject to FOX and other network approval.)

This is very possible. Pro rata clauses in conference media deals are not unusual, as we've seen with the Big 12's recent addition of the four corner schools and the ACC's addition of Stanford, Cal and SMU. (The ACC arguably exploited their pro rata clause for a shorter-term cash infusion - but desperate times call for desperate measures.)

It's often easiest to add schools at the time a media deal is negotiated/executed - but this is rarely the only path.

[Aquinas]

NIL has has become one of the top factors in players choosing schools and in coaches taking new jobs. I think it is also a top factor in a conference selecting a new school. 

A winning history was previously the best indicator of future performance. Players and coaches were attracted to it. But now, a winning history pales in comparison to NIL money. If a school has a good year, their team gets decimated at the end of the season, if they don't have the NIL budget to keep them.

Conferences want winning schools, because  winning schools generate revenue. 

This presents SLU with an opportunity to overcome our greatest weakness in appealing to the Beast. Instead of needing years of winning, we may be much more appealing, with a strong NIL budget and a current winning program, on a trajectory of future winning seasons. 

[billiken_roy]

with some of the salary budgets being disclosed, i truly do not think college sports as we now know it is sustainable.   only the biggest and strongest programs can afford this and i believe a break in division one is fast approaching unless the big boys want to agree to socializing revenue.  yeah right.   that aint happening. 

[thatskablamo]

1 hour ago, Aquinas said:

with a strong NIL budget 

And that is exactly how Southern Methodist University joined the Atlantic Coast Conference. A school strapped to the chair 37 ago is now hosting, at 32,000 seat Gerald R. Ford Stadium, Florida State University exactly three months from this Friday.  

[courtside]

New 6 year Big East Media Rights Deal through 2032, was announced by the league. It will be with Fox, NBC, TNT.

Sportico:

“Estimates of the value of the new agreements see the conference nearly doubling its annual rights payments at a range of $75 million to $80 million per year.”

https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2024/big-east-media-rights-deal-fox-sports-nbc-tnt-1234785885/

 

[slu72]

3 hours ago, courtside said:

New 6 year Big East Media Rights Deal through 2032, was announced by the league. It will be with Fox, NBC, TNT.

Sportico:

“Estimates of the value of the new agreements see the conference nearly doubling its annual rights payments at a range of $75 million to $80 million per year.”

https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2024/big-east-media-rights-deal-fox-sports-nbc-tnt-1234785885/

 

No mention of expansion. Our best bet is molding the A10 into the best mid major conf in the nation. Drop the title and create the best national mid major programs into one conference hoops only. 

[thetorch]

3 hours ago, courtside said:

New 6 year Big East Media Rights Deal through 2032, was announced by the league. It will be with Fox, NBC, TNT.

Sportico:

“Estimates of the value of the new agreements see the conference nearly doubling its annual rights payments at a range of $75 million to $80 million per year.”

https://www.sportico.com/business/media/2024/big-east-media-rights-deal-fox-sports-nbc-tnt-1234785885/

 

Zero mention of expansion.

Can all the "insiders" drop this Big East pipe dream?  SLU is not in constant contact with BE schools.  The BE is not considering us any time soon and we aren't even on their short list of candidates.  

We had our chance.  It is over.

[slu72]

$75-80 mm a year divied up among 11 teams. It comes to +$7 mm a team. Are they going to sacrifice the pet school amount to add new teams? No. It would have been nice if the new deal contained a proviso about expansion, but no mention of adding members. Granted deals can be adjusted but as it stands that appears unlikely. Again, strong mid major hoops only programs from around the country should put their heads together and come up with a 16-20 team conference that could challenge the Beast. After all most Beast schools are not FB schools. They are living and thriving based on their long history of hoops success. The A10 once had a rep of quality hoops, but it hasn’t kept up. It’s time for SLU to pursue a change and take the lead in the formation of a better conference. One that can challenge the Beast. 

[slu72]

Thinking about a super Mid Major Conference. It would be made up of schools east and west of the MISSISSIPPI. We’d be in the West. 8 possible teams: Zaga, StMarys, USF, Drake, WSU, SLU, Santa Clara, Utah St. 

East: Dayton, VCU, Richmond, St Joes, Belmont, Davidson, an NYC team (Fordham or Iona), CofC. 
A lot of teams with winning traditions and good demographics. 
Just a thought. 

 

[CenHudDude]

8 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Thinking about a super Mid Major Conference. It would be made up of schools east and west of the MISSISSIPPI. We’d be in the West. 8 possible teams: Zaga, StMarys, USF, Drake, WSU, SLU, Santa Clara, Utah St. 

East: Dayton, VCU, Richmond, St Joes, Belmont, Davidson, an NYC team (Fordham or Iona), CofC. 
A lot of teams with winning traditions and good demographics. 
Just a thought. 

 

A lot of late night tv games in that western division.

[slu72]

1 hour ago, CenHudDude said:

A lot of late night tv games in that western division.

Yeah, but good ones. Why God made DVRs. 

[CenHudDude]

I think that’s how I would have to watch a lot of those games slu72.

[HoosierPal]

Today is the day when all the conference movements are official.  No more Pac 12, with the WCC adding two affiliate members.  ACC adds 3, SEC adds 2, Big 10 (okay not until Aug 4) and Big 12 each add 4, MAAC has 13, CUSA grows by one for a total of 10, and etc., etc., etc.  

What will next July 1 look like?  We know UMass will be gone from the A10.  Will there by other domino's falling?

[BLIKNS]

I think at some point travel will become an issue and the ACC and Big 12 will make a trade, Cal, Stanford and SMU to the Big 12,  and Cincinnati , West Virginia and UCF to the ACC ( but Miami and FSU may try to block UCF)

[slu72]

1 hour ago, BLIKNS said:

I think at some point travel will become an issue and the ACC and Big 12 will make a trade, Cal, Stanford and SMU to the Big 12,  and Cincinnati , West Virginia and UCF to the ACC ( but Miami and FSU may try to block UCF)

Also likely Clemson and FSU or Miami to the SEC. 

[HoosierPal]

I didn't see this coming.  Pac 12 may not be dead.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41226997/sources-boise-state-four-schools-set-join-pac-12

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/pac-12-poaches-mountain-west-schools-to-join-oregon-state-washington-state-as-conference-rebuilds/