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The jobbing these refs did today, on Has especially, has to be an all time worst. So tired of these corrupt A10 refs.  They stole that game from us today. Made it a totally different ballgame.  All to protect Dayton's seed.  Incredible.... I don't know where wed go but there has to be a better conference..

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This isn't football.  There is no such thing as A10 specific referees who only work A10 games.  Referees are employed by multiple conferences and the referee is usually selected for geographic reasons. It is why we ocasionally get some of the better known college referees like Ted Valentine, Bo Boroski and Jamie Lucky who you also see reffing P5 games.  So if we changed conferences we would likely see many of the same referees.

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5 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

The jobbing these refs did today, on Has especially, has to be an all time worst. So tired of these corrupt A10 refs.  They stole that game from us today. Made it a totally different ballgame.  All to protect Dayton's seed.  Incredible.... I don't know where wed go but there has to be a better conference..

The idea of protecting Dayton is silly.  By preventing another A10 team from getting a marquee win and earning an at-large bid, the league would actually be hurting itself financially.

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There's a lot of riding on the perception of Dayton as a top 5 team -- a seed that allows them a path to the Sweet 16 without having to play a top 25 team, the college POY coming out of the A-10, the glowing national media coverage given to a top NCAA seed in the run-up to the tournament.  I think the officiating we saw yesterday is a mid-major as much as it is an A10 problem.

We play in a system where high major conference teams are often given priority over mid-major teams.  We shouldn't be surprised when similar thinking takes hold in the mid-major conferences themselves.  If we were not such a difficult matchup for Dayton the preferential treatment would not be so obvious.  But the A10 higher ups can not afford for their once-in-a-lifetime team to lose to a team with our obvious flaws.  

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7 hours ago, mrjoelabs said:

The jobbing these refs did today, on Has especially, has to be an all time worst. So tired of these corrupt A10 refs.  They stole that game from us today. Made it a totally different ballgame.  All to protect Dayton's seed.  Incredible.... I don't know where wed go but there has to be a better conference..

....and go where?  Remember, the A10, ACC, Big East and CAA all draw officials from the same pool.  So you wouldn't want to go to any of those leagues as you would have the same officials.

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My vote is to go to the AAC. we have some traditional rivalries with schools there, and almost all of them have bigger names than A10 schools. I would want to take UD with us as that protects this rivalry we have developed with them. And while it would not provide new referees to make the move, perhaps they would be less motivated to Influence the outcome of the game as outlined above. 

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If anyone knows the figure please provide it. I may be wrong but I assume that referees are paid by the game. The more games they officiate the more money they make. I also find it hard to believe that the amount of money college basketball referees are paid per game is very high, therefore they must officiate a large number of games to make decent money every year. This introduces the POSSIBILITY that they might be tempted to accept extra payments able to do specific things, like calling two fouls on French in the first 2 minutes of play. This makes French unable to play like French, etc... I am not saying this actually goes on, and I am not accusing anyone of doing this. I am just saying that in this corrupt world we live in, the refs are not above the general state of corruption by defending the purity of their actions in the court. Some refs MAY be willing to supplement their income "under the table" as it may be. I think this may be entirely possible.

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So we feel like we are above the MVC, but the Big East didn’t want us.  There’s the AAC which already has a ton of teams but many which we have past conference affiliation with.  I’m sure there are legal ramifications for leaving, possibly    a waiting period etc.  Maybe the key to not being jobbed on officiating will be SLU forcing the issue by becoming the program Dayton is—or hopefully surpassing it.  The better we do, the more recognition we receive, the more appealing we are for a higher profile conference to pick us off, or at worst maybe we become the team that everyone complains about getting the calls.  
I think it’s just something we have to deal with as long as this is our style of basketball, and we play in the A10.

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1 hour ago, bills10 said:

My vote is to go to the AAC. we have some traditional rivalries with schools there, and almost all of them have bigger names than A10 schools. I would want to take UD with us as that protects this rivalry we have developed with them. And while it would not provide new referees to make the move, perhaps they would be less motivated to Influence the outcome of the game as outlined above. 

I believe one has to be invited to a party as opposed to just deciding we are crashing it lol.  I  agree there should be some discussion behind the scenes to see what a move may look like though.

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When we got passed over by the Big East I think that left is in the Situation we find ourselves in.  The days of playing against Marquette, DePaul, Cincy, Xavier. Memphis, Louisville, and Dayton on a regular basis is still the most ideal situation if we could just make a conference happen.  If you could add Creighton and Wichita State to this make believe conference it would be amazing.  This likely will never happen but it’s fun to dream.

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37 minutes ago, Old guy said:

If anyone knows the figure please provide it. I may be wrong but I assume that referees are paid by the game. The more games they officiate the more money they make. I also find it hard to believe that the amount of money college basketball referees are paid per game is very high, therefore they must officiate a large number of games to make decent money every year. This introduces the POSSIBILITY that they might be tempted to accept extra payments able to do specific things, like calling two fouls on French in the first 2 minutes of play. This makes French unable to play like French, etc... I am not saying this actually goes on, and I am not accusing anyone of doing this. I am just saying that in this corrupt world we live in, the refs are not above the general state of corruption by defending the purity of their actions in the court. Some refs MAY be willing to supplement their income "under the table" as it may be. I think this may be highly probable.

FIFY

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To go a bit further with my line of thought regarding the refs. It is entirely possible that these sources of "under the table additional income" for the refs may come from betting sources, and not necessarily from the opposing team. I am not accusing anyone just pointing out the possibility.

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In order to beat a top 10 team on the road, you're going to need to overcome biased officiating. Period.

College basketball refs are often crap. We should be used to it. You would be naive to think we don't have dirty refs. Of the refs who are 100% clean, there is a natural bias towards the home team - esp when it's a sellout crowd - esp when it's the best team in the conference - esp when they're ranked in the top 10.

No ref wants to be the one who made the bad call that caused the best team in the conference to lose (at home), and hurt their NCAA seed.

When the Billikens were the top dogs in the A10 at the height of the Jett/Evans era, we certainly benefited from this phenomenon. It works both ways.

SLU does not project as an at-large NCAA team. They are a spoiler at this point. Come A10 tournament time, it'll be a different story but right now when they play the A10 teams with legit NCAA at large aspirations, we're going to playing uphill against that officiating bias.

As far as leaving the conference goes...I mean, since joining the A10 they've made the NCAA tournament 4 times in 14 years. It's a conference that's strong enough that they can earn an at-large bid with a strong regular season but also a conference that's not so good that winning the automatic bid via the tournament is not an impossible task. What other conference could they join where both of those factors would remain intact?

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23 minutes ago, Old guy said:

To go a bit further with my line of thought regarding the refs. It is entirely possible that these sources of "under the table additional income" for the refs may come from betting sources, and not necessarily from the opposing team. I am not accusing anyone just pointing out the possibility.

Did you go off your meds toay?

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While corruption is always possible, I would rather not be the team that constantly cries about officiating.  Does it seem like we get hosed more than the opposition?  Yes it appears that way, but there’s little we can do short of letting the A10 know our displeasure.  
Is the league going to have a conference call with the officials and say “hey, SLU is complaining about the biased officiating so let’s clean it up”.  Unless there is some play that is a blatant mistake (NFL Saints vs Rams) that goes viral, I seriously doubt it matters much.

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20 minutes ago, Old guy said:

No I did not. Are you saying that all refs are un-corruptible all the time? I am just saying it is possible this is going on, nothing else.

There is no A10 conspiracy, either formal or informal, against the Billikens.  There is no under the table money being paid to call phantom fouls against the Billikens.

There were plenty of incorrect calls yesterday on both sides.  There were plenty of debatable calls in every basketball game played yesterday.  It's part of the game. 

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25 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

In order to beat a top 10 team on the road, you're going to need to overcome biased officiating. Period.

College basketball refs are often crap. We should be used to it. You would be naive to think we don't have dirty refs. Of the refs who are 100% clean, there is a natural bias towards the home team - esp when it's a sellout crowd - esp when it's the best team in the conference - esp when they're ranked in the top 10.

No ref wants to be the one who made the bad call that caused the best team in the conference to lose (at home), and hurt their NCAA seed.

When the Billikens were the top dogs in the A10 at the height of the Jett/Evans era, we certainly benefited from this phenomenon. It works both ways.

SLU does not project as an at-large NCAA team. They are a spoiler at this point. Come A10 tournament time, it'll be a different story but right now when they play the A10 teams with legit NCAA at large aspirations, we're going to playing uphill against that officiating bias.

As far as leaving the conference goes...I mean, since joining the A10 they've made the NCAA tournament 4 times in 14 years. It's a conference that's strong enough that they can earn an at-large bid with a strong regular season but also a conference that's not so good that winning the automatic bid via the tournament is not an impossible task. What other conference could they join where both of those factors would remain intact?

I disagree with the portion I highlighted in bold — particularly in 2014.  I feel that the Bills, particularly against Wichita State, Duquesne, Dayton, and St. Bonaventure, were penalized more than favored.

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28 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

In order to beat a top 10 team on the road, you're going to need to overcome biased officiating. Period.

College basketball refs are often crap. We should be used to it. You would be naive to think we don't have dirty refs. Of the refs who are 100% clean, there is a natural bias towards the home team - esp when it's a sellout crowd - esp when it's the best team in the conference - esp when they're ranked in the top 10.

No ref wants to be the one who made the bad call that caused the best team in the conference to lose (at home), and hurt their NCAA seed.

When the Billikens were the top dogs in the A10 at the height of the Jett/Evans era, we certainly benefited from this phenomenon. It works both ways.

SLU does not project as an at-large NCAA team. They are a spoiler at this point. Come A10 tournament time, it'll be a different story but right now when they play the A10 teams with legit NCAA at large aspirations, we're going to playing uphill against that officiating bias.

As far as leaving the conference goes...I mean, since joining the A10 they've made the NCAA tournament 4 times in 14 years. It's a conference that's strong enough that they can earn an at-large bid with a strong regular season but also a conference that's not so good that winning the automatic bid via the tournament is not an impossible task. What other conference could they join where both of those factors would remain intact?

This.

I don’t think the refs are purposely favoring Dayton I think the refs are incompetent and are easily influenced by a home crowd. 
They are also influenced by hype.

They hear all the hype about “The Big Illegal screen” Toppin and think he can do know wrong.

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The officiating in the A10 is atrocious. But I find it hard to buy in to all the officiating conspiracy theories...mostly because A10 officiating has ALWAYS BEEN atrocious. They were atrocious yesterday. They were atrocious last year. They were atrocious the year before. They're atrocious when SLU plays Dayton. They're atrocious when Fordham plays Lasalle. The biggest problem I have is with the consistency. They don't call a reach in 1 situation, but then call it on almost the exact same play in another. Kids have zero idea what they can and/or cannot get away with. I also think we are unintentionally penalized because we have a reputation for being a tough, physical team. And since A10 referees are already horrible, they go into plays assuming SLU is going to make contact on defense and initiate contact on offense, leading to a lot of phantom/missed calls.

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14 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I disagree with the portion I highlighted in bold — particularly in 2014.  I feel that the Bills, particularly against Wichita State, Duquesne, Dayton, and St. Bonaventure, were penalized more than favored.

Exactly.  You've never in your life seen the best player for the Billikens end a physical contest with zero fouls.  

I think we all understand that teams usually get calls at home.  But what's the point of even playing  a top 5 team on the road if the refs are going to do whatever it takes to prevent an upset?

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28 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I disagree with the portion I highlighted in bold — particularly in 2014.  I feel that the Bills, particularly against Wichita State, Duquesne, Dayton, and St. Bonaventure, were penalized more than favored.

Wichita St were a better team coming off a Final 4 and SLU could not buy a 3pt shot. 

Dayton went to the Elite 8, were as good as we were not to mention Jordair was banged up. They beat us. 

Duquesne hit 8 of 15 3s while SLU went 4-23. That's why they lost. It wasn't the refs.

Are you talking Bonnies in the A10 tournament?  Thats probably the most egregious screw job I can recall. Jett got hammered and stayed down. No call. They hit open 3 playing 5 on 4. Total garbage. But...its different in the conf tournament as the league benefits from a dark horse winner.

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32 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

There is no A10 conspiracy, either formal or informal, against the Billikens.  There is no under the table money being paid to call phantom fouls against the Billikens.

There were plenty of incorrect calls yesterday on both sides.  There were plenty of debatable calls in every basketball game played yesterday.  It's part of the game. 

Did I mention anything about an A10 conspiracy anywhere? Please let me know where I mentioned this. I was talking about individuals and the fact that these guys are not paid that much and may, just may, need more income. Is this a case that never happens to anyone anywhere? Are people free of temptation? Do people not fall for it? Are we not all, yes you included, sinners one way or the other? Why can this not happen ever, under any circumstances? You think the refs sense of duty and honor is that high and their standards so pure that this just cannot happen? What world do you live in?

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If the Beast folks weren't so GD arrogant they'd take both SLU and Dayton. The add one more E. Coast team for a 14 team league. The MW division would be X, Butler, Creighton, MU, DePaul, SLU, and Dayton. 

The East div would have Nova, Prov, St John's, GU, UConn, SH, and take your pick of RI, VCU, Rich, Duq, or Davidson. 

Simple. Problem solved. What a conference. Could get like 8-9 teams dancing. Lot of rivalries, new big markets. Reduce expenses for non revenue sports. All good schools academically. 

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