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22 minutes ago, NH said:

He’s also not particularly quick, which is usually a pretty important skill on defense. Nobody knows whether he will be a great defender or not, but it’s a fair question. Same applies to Yuri due to his size. That question is less applicable to Hargrove, who has shown D1-ready defensive abilities.

while i am not ready to declare him an allen iverson quick player, watching jimerson's video's he seems to be able to drive to the basket fairly adeptly.   that doesnt happen with at least reasonable athleticism/speed.  

ive seen hargrove a lot in high school.  and while he indeed overwhelmed lesser high school opponents on both ends of the floor, when faced with worthy college level talents (for example ej liddell) he didnt exactly shut those players down with his defense.   i dont expect hargrove to be a defensive liability, but he isnt javon bess yet.  

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19 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Diener, Highmark, Robinson, Cassity, Crawford, Roth,  are just some of the white boys we recruited or signed whose defense ranged from “Ole” to couldn’t guard a chair.

Noted offensive high school, prep, and juco players who arrive at a four year college with lots of press clippings, and little to no ink re their defense, have not gained ANY noteriety on the defensive side.

oTOH, players who come in with a rep for stellar defense, ie McCauley, Hughes, Thatch, French, Goodwin, etc, have little difficulty maintaining that skill in college.

Picking up solid Upper D1 defense is a damn hard combination of speed, strength, leverage, spacing, effort, desire, discipline, and anticipation. Players who didn’t work hard in hs on this have at least two years of catching up to do.

i disagree with cassity and crawford.  both were more than "ole" defenders.  

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1 hour ago, bauman said:

Who or what is the source of the constant concern SOME of you continue to bring up about Jimerson's defense.  I have no idea about his defense but I know I have not heard or read from any non-Billiken.com poster that his defense is lacking.  Why do some of you continue to bring it up?

This guy could be a Program changer.  Let's not look for things to criticize before he even takes his first shot as a Billiken.  Enough already!

You're the source bauman. You asked "How do you keep Jimerson off the court if he can hit 43%+ from the 3?"

The clear answer, short of him being injured or having disciplinary issues, is if his defense is ineffectual. Is there another reason you can think of? 

No paranoia or concern, that's just why a coach might keep a 43% shooter from 3 off the court. 

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Mike McCall came in lacking in D skills. Took him a while but he finally understood that if he didn't play D his minutes were going to be minor. He became a pretty solid defender as I recall. I'm sure Gibson will get, or has got, the message and is ready to make the same commitment. But since none of us have seen his D skills,  it's kind of a moot discussion to be having at this point. 

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The typical defense many other teams have used effectively against us over and over again is the zone defense. As long as we had no one capable of scoring consistently from beyond the zone defense we had trouble playing against it. With Jimerson in the team, even if his defense is not much of anything, we have someone that can be used to defeat a zone defense when it is used against us. I think he will see plenty of play minutes from the word go. As he gets better with defense his minutes will go up.

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2 hours ago, slu72 said:

Mike McCall came in lacking in D skills. Took him a while but he finally understood that if he didn't play D his minutes were going to be minor. He became a pretty solid defender as I recall. I'm sure Gibson will get, or has got, the message and is ready to make the same commitment. But since none of us have seen his D skills,  it's kind of a moot discussion to be having at this point. 

If he hits at 43%, he’s not sitting regardless of his defense. People continually underrate the importance of being able to shoot. 43% is equivalent to 64.5% for two point attempts.. 

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46 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

If he hits at 43%, he’s not sitting regardless of his defense. People continually underrate the importance of being able to shoot. 43% is equivalent to 64.5% for two point attempts.. 

And if/when Jimerson draws double coverage French and maybe one of our freshmen twin towers can go to work. I’m excited for this season.

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6 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Diener, Highmark, Robinson, Cassity, Crawford, Roth,  are just some of the white boys we recruited or signed whose defense ranged from “Ole” to couldn’t guard a chair.

Noted offensive high school, prep, and juco players who arrive at a four year college with lots of press clippings, and little to no ink re their defense, have not gained ANY noteriety on the defensive side.

oTOH, players who come in with a rep for stellar defense, ie McCauley, Hughes, Thatch, French, Goodwin, etc, have little difficulty maintaining that skill in college.

Picking up solid Upper D1 defense is a damn hard combination of speed, strength, leverage, spacing, effort, desire, discipline, and anticipation. Players who didn’t work hard in hs on this have at least two years of catching up to do.

"Ole" I luv it.

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6 hours ago, Old guy said:

The typical defense many other teams have used effectively against us over and over again is the zone defense. As long as we had no one capable of scoring consistently from beyond the zone defense we had trouble playing against it. With Jimerson in the team, even if his defense is not much of anything, we have someone that can be used to defeat a zone defense when it is used against us. I think he will see plenty of play minutes from the word go. As he gets better with defense his minutes will go up.

You're right.   And having not only Jimerson but also Tay Weaver (and throw in Perkins) will mean that teams will need to defend us with man to man defense -- which helps Goodwin, Thatch, French and the others.

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A few random thoughts as HC TF and probably the rest of his ACs are out watching recruits this weekend:

Seeing the pictures of Jimmy Bell at CGCH, he sure does not look overweight, rather just the opposite.  I obviously don't know how this translates into cardio-shape, but certainly the two must have some relationship;

After reading Big Bill Fan''s post yesterday it got me thinking about how valuable some of our new shooters are.  I know we sometimes say that SLU is where shooters go to fail, but I think the following projections are reasonable---GJ-40%; Perkins, Hankton and Weaver-36%;  YC, TH, FT and JG-32%;  All others-not enough to matter.

The 2 point equivalent of the above 3-Pt %s are:  40% = 60%;  36% = 54% and 32% = 48%  If I am 2% too optimistic then GJ's 38% = 57%; the next group's 34% = 51% and the last group's 30% = 45%.  If the preceding lower numbers turn out to be the most accurate then I would also expect that the last (YC's) group will be taking a much smaller number of 3 point attempts, at least I would hope that to be the case.  What these numbers do remind us of is that the measurement I hear TF talk about quite a bit (Points per Possession) can be greatly affected by good 3 pt. shooters.  Of course as others have pointed out improved 3 pt shooting will also open up the middle for:  1) the rest of our team to operate without being double teamed and 2) dribble penetration for JG, TH YC and Jacobs.

Shucks, we should be able to go undefeated leading up to March Madness!!! 

Seriously, if all (or most) goes as well as possible, we do have the ability to surprise the non-Billiken world.

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1 hour ago, bauman said:

A few random thoughts as HC TF and probably the rest of his ACs are out watching recruits this weekend:

Seeing the pictures of Jimmy Bell at CGCH, he sure does not look overweight, rather just the opposite.  I obviously don't know how this translates into cardio-shape, but certainly the two must have some relationship;

After reading Big Bill Fan''s post yesterday it got me thinking about how valuable some of our new shooters are.  I know we sometimes say that SLU is where shooters go to fail, but I think the following projections are reasonable---GJ-40%; Perkins, Hankton and Weaver-36%;  YC, TH, FT and JG-32%;  All others-not enough to matter.

The 2 point equivalent of the above 3-Pt %s are:  40% = 60%;  36% = 54% and 32% = 48%  If I am 2% too optimistic then GJ's 38% = 57%; the next group's 34% = 51% and the last group's 30% = 45%.  If the preceding lower numbers turn out to be the most accurate then I would also expect that the last (YC's) group will be taking a much smaller number of 3 point attempts, at least I would hope that to be the case.  What these numbers do remind us of is that the measurement I hear TF talk about quite a bit (Points per Possession) can be greatly affected by good 3 pt. shooters.  Of course as others have pointed out improved 3 pt shooting will also open up the middle for:  1) the rest of our team to operate without being double teamed and 2) dribble penetration for JG, TH YC and Jacobs.

Shucks, we should be able to go undefeated leading up to March Madness!!! 

Seriously, if all (or most) goes as well as possible, we do have the ability to surprise the non-Billiken world.

Yuri and Hargrove didn't even shoot 25% from 3pt range in high school last year and you're expecting 32% from further away? And you expect Hankton to increase his shooting percentage by 8  points while shooting from further away? 

The percentages you're expecting from our top 8 would take us from the worst 3 point shooting team in the conference to one of the best. If there was any team in college basketball last year who improved their perimeter shooting that much in one season, I'd like to know who they are. What you're hoping for is bordering on miraculous.

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1 hour ago, bauman said:

Seeing the pictures of Jimmy Bell at CGCH, he sure does not look overweight, rather just the opposite.  I obviously don't know how this translates into cardio-shape, but certainly the two must have some relationship;

Go back and look at the pictures that Coach Ford tweeted out from the pool party at his house (July 4th?).  Compare Jimmy Bell Jr’s body to Terrance Hargrove’s (or really any other player’s).  JBJ might be in decent regular dude shape, but he is nowhere near peak athlete shape.

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Despite our tempered excitement over this year's team, it will likely take us at least the OOC schedule before we see the team become a competitive squad. Just too much youth and too many new pieces. Here's hoping we see them become what St B's did last year. The Bonnie's struggled in OOC play then  found their AH HAH moment about 4-5 games into A10 play. It's the best we can expect at this point. And who wouldn't appreciate a run to the A10 championship game from this group? 

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Yuri and Hargrove didn't even shoot 25% from 3pt range in high school last year and you're expecting 32% from further away? And you expect Hankton to increase his shooting percentage by 8  points while shooting from further away? 

The percentages you're expecting from our top 8 would take us from the worst 3 point shooting team in the conference to one of the best. If there was any team in college basketball last year who improved their perimeter shooting that much in one season, I'd like to know who they are. What you're hoping for is bordering on miraculous.

Obviously, my guestimates are just that, with errors probably on the high side.  however, I do think 30% is attainable for Yuri, Terrance, , FT and JG and if they can't do that, or at least get reasonably close then I expect they will be taking very few of those shots.

Putting my realistic hat back on, I do think our that  GJ is capable of 40% and I think Perkins and Weaver are capable of 36 %.  Also, if Hankton gets enough time on the court I think he is capable of at least 33%.  If those 4 can do that, or very close to that then I think very good things can happen for the team this year.

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It’s where jumpshots go to die (not fail)

I like to call it the curse of Ross Varner.

He shot 90% from 3 in practice, 9% in the game.  

Jimerson is our best chance for us at breaking this curse.  

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14 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

It’s where jumpshots go to die (not fail)

I like to call it the curse of Ross Varner.

He shot 90% from 3 in practice, 9% in the game.  

Jimerson is our best chance for us at breaking this curse.  

I could have sworn D. Polk was responsible for the dead jump shot line, but I didn't know Varner's spread was that high. He can have it. I think we should drop it, though, in honor of GibsonJ. We don't want to hex him. 

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If the Cubs and Blues can overcome their shortcomings, then so can SLU. Don’t give me that we are a mid major nonsense. it can happen.

 

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It doesn’t have to be that way. We once had Clagget, Highmark, and Waldman on the same team. I believe Carl Turner also came off the bench for that team. They could all light it up from “3”. 

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SLU has not always been a bad shooting team.   In fact, we were a very good shooting team under Spoon with guys like Highmark, Claggett, Waldman and even Cobbin.  The problem for Charlie is that he couldn't recruit enough good talent - consistently, got lazy and then was crushed when Larry left after only 1 year.   Recruiting and talent dropped under Romar (who did well with Spoon's guys but couldn't get his own guys).   Brad got us Kevin Lisch who could also shoot it very well, got us Tommie Liddell and Reggie Bryant who could play the game,  but couldn't get us that power forward or the other talent we needed so badly.   RM changed things completely and go us to the Top 10 -relying not just on any one part of the game (such as shooting) but on having the most precise, well -run offense I have ever seen in Billiken blue.  Sure, Kwamain Mitchell, Cody Ellis and others all hit a 3, but the combination of inside/outside/balanced offense was incredible to watch.  

But yes, lately we have gotten away from pure outside shooters.  Having another Highmark or Lisch will do wonders for the offense.  Then again, we have not exactly been stocked with non-shooter.   Ian Voyoukas and Rob Loe our only professional centers in last 25 years?   Cody Ellis, Conklin and who else at forward professionally these past 25 years?  No, I would suggest that we have suffered from a lack of true talent at all positions and not just at shooting.  

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2 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

SLU has not always been a bad shooting team.   In fact, we were a very good shooting team under Spoon with guys like Highmark, Claggett, Waldman and even Cobbin.  The problem for Charlie is that he couldn't recruit enough good talent - consistently, got lazy and then was crushed when Larry left after only 1 year.   Recruiting and talent dropped under Romar (who did well with Spoon's guys but couldn't get his own guys).   Brad got us Kevin Lisch who could also shoot it very well, got us Tommie Liddell and Reggie Bryant who could play the game,  but couldn't get us that power forward or the other talent we needed so badly.   RM changed things completely and go us to the Top 10 -relying not just on any one part of the game (such as shooting) but on having the most precise, well -run offense I have ever seen in Billiken blue.  Sure, Kwamain Mitchell, Cody Ellis and others all hit a 3, but the combination of inside/outside/balanced offense was incredible to watch.  

But yes, lately we have gotten away from pure outside shooters.  Having another Highmark or Lisch will do wonders for the offense.  Then again, we have not exactly been stocked with non-shooter.   Ian Voyoukas and Rob Loe our only professional centers in last 25 years?   Cody Ellis, Conklin and who else at forward professionally these past 25 years?  No, I would suggest that we have suffered from a lack of true talent at all positions and not just at shooting.  

You're leaving out Willie Reed.

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33 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

You're leaving out Willie Reed.

Yes.   But he wasn't really here that long...

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21 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

You're right.   And having not only Jimerson but also Tay Weaver (and throw in Perkins) will mean that teams will need to defend us with man to man defense -- which helps Goodwin, Thatch, French and the others.

Jim Boeheim is chuckling. 

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5 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

It’s where jumpshots go to die (not fail)

I like to call it the curse of Ross Varner.

He shot 90% from 3 in practice, 9% in the game.  

Jimerson is our best chance for us at breaking this curse.  

I could have sworn D. Polk was responsible for the dead jump shot line, but I didn't know Varner's spread was that high. He can have it. I think we should drop it, though, in honor of GibsonJ. We don't want to hex him. 

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