GDT: SLU v. Saint Joseph's

[cheeseman]

34 minutes ago, stmdragons said:

That’s true, but by that same token Dartmouth, Hofstra, and Louisiana Tech could’ve just as easily been losses. 

Actually, we would have still won those games.

[Pistol]

14 minutes ago, DOC said:

I wonder what our record would be if we had played this season healthy and with Ezewiro? 

Maybe 11-5 on the optimistic side? NC State, George Mason, Wichita State, and SIUC would still be definite losses. Utah State most likely still a loss, and probably Loyola, as well. Drake may have not have had enough for a comeback, so that one could flip. Vermont would've been a closer game, maybe a 50-50 chance there.

Given that we're 228 in the NET today, it still doesn't put us close enough to postseason tournament range.

Some of our margins of defeat were artificially close based on other teams either letting off the gas or putting in their reserves late in games.

The defense is so bad this year and having Parker and Ezewiro around for every game would not change that fact.

Of course, we're talking about multiple variables for each game and each team would've schemed differently. I wonder how all of our close wins would've gone, too. Those don't remain automatic wins just because we have more guys.

I'd like to think in your scenario we would never have dipped under .500. I think 9-7 or 10-6 is the most likely record and 12-4 is the absolute best case scenario if everything broke right, so I'll be optimistic and split the difference.

[Pistol]

22 minutes ago, shempie said:

Nice game. A few random observations. Curious if I am the only one who saw them:

Dr. C sits in front of me. He looked completely disengaged until about 15 minutes left.

TF looked a lot calmer on the bench last night. A couple of plays that previously would get him worked up (the last turnover and big Brad's last foul come to mind) didn't.

The offense flowed much better with Meadows and Medley on the floor together. The ball actually moved more and there wasn't one guy at the top of the key pounding it into the floor deep into the clock. Hope we see more of that.

The team hasn't quit on the coach.

At one point in the first half  the rebounds. 21-9 against. Wonder what was said to reverse that?

The rebounding margin was 19-5 at its worst point. Somewhere around this time, Ford was jumping and stomping and screaming like crazy. I felt like he was the avatar for all of us at that point, though.

[DOC]

10 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Maybe 11-5 on the optimistic side? NC State, George Mason, Wichita State, and SIUC would still be definite losses. Utah State most likely still a loss, and probably Loyola, as well. Drake may have not have had enough for a comeback, so that one could flip. Vermont would've been a closer game, maybe a 50-50 chance there.

Given that we're 228 in the NET today, it still doesn't put us close enough to postseason tournament range.

Some of our margins of defeat were artificially close based on other teams either letting off the gas or putting in their reserves late in games.

The defense is so bad this year and having Parker and Ezewiro around for every game would not change that fact.

Of course, we're talking about multiple variables for each game and each team would've schemed differently. I wonder how all of our close wins would've gone, too. Those don't remain automatic wins just because we have more guys.

I'd like to think in your scenario we would never have dipped under .500. I think 9-7 or 10-6 is the most likely record and 12-4 is the absolute best case scenario if everything broke right, so I'll be optimistic and split the difference.

That’s a well thought out, fair assessment. Thanks. 

[3star_recruit]

15 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Maybe 11-5 on the optimistic side? NC State, George Mason, Wichita State, and SIUC would still be definite losses. Utah State most likely still a loss, and probably Loyola, as well. Drake may have not have had enough for a comeback, so that one could flip. Vermont would've been a closer game, maybe a 50-50 chance there.

Given that we're 228 in the NET today, it still doesn't put us close enough to postseason tournament range.

Some of our margins of defeat were artificially close based on other teams either letting off the gas or putting in their reserves late in games.

The defense is so bad this year and having Parker and Ezewiro around for every game would not change that fact.

Of course, we're talking about multiple variables for each game and each team would've schemed differently. I wonder how all of our close wins would've gone, too. Those don't remain automatic wins just because we have more guys.

I'd like to think in your scenario we would never have dipped under .500. I think 9-7 or 10-6 is the most likely record and 12-4 is the absolute best case scenario if everything broke right, so I'll be optimistic and split the difference.

I keep it simple.  Would we be averaging 80 points game with a healthy Parker and Big Brad in the lineup?  Yes.  

Can we hit that number in February if Parker returns to health? Yes. Can we improve marginally on defense by then?  Sure, because we're atrocious now.  Do those two things and a run is inevitable.

[OkieBilliken]

I will be creating a new twitter handle “Stone Cold Fjordson” and commence harassing everyone on SLU Twitter 24 hours prior the Dayton game to ensure victory

[thunderdan]

18 hours ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

They gave away a load of tickets, Jesus 

Yeah, there were tons of youth basketball teams. Some of these teams had 30 uniformed kids. That’s a deep bench!

[thunderdan]

I was at the game last night. Came to this thread simply to experience the roller coaster of emotions that was, no doubt, posted throughout the contest.  

 

[thunderdan]

4 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

We've never had a point guard who shoots 90% from the line.  He and Jimerson are a problem for teams who need to foul at the end of the game.

Underrated post.  

[slufan13]

DISCLAIMER **This is not meant to be a discussion about Travis Ford**

After last night's 2nd half, it's really a shame that Jimerson has never gotten to play in a NCAA tournament and likely never will. Hargrove had that insane 30 seconds last month but Jimerson's 2nd half last night was one of the best halves of basketball I've ever seen. That kid deserves to be a household name on the biggest stage. Hopefully we can make it happen.

[DOC]

6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

DISCLAIMER **This is not meant to be a discussion about Travis Ford**

After last night's 2nd half, it's really a shame that Jimerson has never gotten to play in a NCAA tournament and likely never will. Hargrove had that insane 30 seconds last month but Jimerson's 2nd half last night was one of the best halves of basketball I've ever seen. That kid deserves to be a household name on the biggest stage. Hopefully we can make it happen.

I would put an NIL premium on signing him for next year. 

[gobillsgo]

5 minutes ago, DOC said:

I would put an NIL premium on signing him for next year. 

Roster needs total overhaul. Would be silly to spend a lot on retaining one player, IMO. 

[Dr Bird]

25 minutes ago, DOC said:

I would put an NIL premium on signing him for next year. 

While I would LOVE to have Gibby back, if he decides to do a grad transfer to a P5 to experience the NCAA, I would not begrudge him at all.  He's given SLU everything he has. 

[billiken_roy]

8 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Roster needs total overhaul. Would be silly to spend a lot on retaining one player, IMO. 

I contend we have more raw talent than is seen on surface.   It just is not being developed.   As I've said since Ford first came, he is not a practice or development coach.

Think back to rickma's great teams.  When they first arrived, Mitchell was the only one ready imo.   But rickma develops players in all facets and prepared to the nth degree 

[TheA_Bomb]

2 hours ago, DOC said:

I wonder what our record would be if we had played this season healthy and with Ezewiro? 

He could have a Naismith Finalist and still go on a 7 game losing streak and finish 8th in the conference. Or make the NCAA Tournament and get blown out by 13 points in the first round by a lesser seed.

You know this as a Ford fan (not a SLU fan) that he will find a way to lose. But I guess it's never his fault.

So is Ezewiro more valuable than Marcus Smart? Or Yuri Collins? Or Jordan Goodwin?

I don't think so. All players that are much better than Ez that Ford underachieved with because that is what he's done for 27 years.

27 YEARS, 1 NCAA Win Ever

[DOC]

15 minutes ago, Dr Bird said:

While I would LOVE to have Gibby back, if he decides to do a grad transfer to a P5 to experience the NCAA, I would not begrudge him at all.  He's given SLU everything he has. 

Absolutely. He’s done enough. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Just now, DOC said:

Absolutely. He’s Suffered enough. 

Fixed it for you. Would love to see what he could do with a real coach.

[cgeldmacher]

Regardless of what has happened this season up to this point, that was a really good win.  St. Joe's has a win over Villanova at Villanova this year and took Kentucky to overtime in Lexington.

[3star_recruit]

35 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I contend we have more raw talent than is seen on surface.   It just is not being developed.   As I've said since Ford first came, he is not a practice or development coach.

Think back to rickma's great teams.  When they first arrived, Mitchell was the only one ready imo.   But rickma develops players in all facets and prepared to the nth degree 

Coach Majerus brought in a lot of players who were already fundamentally sound on offense.  Note that players like Mitchell, Evans, Jett, Cassity and McCall also had had good defensive reputations.  Majerus got on McCall's case because he took shortcuts on defense, not because he couldn't create turnovers. 

When you have a good defensive core then the job is turning those guys into a great defensive core.  His teams didn't have to score that much because they routinely held the other team to under 65 points.  

That's one way of winning but it's not the only way.  We see other programs roll out a Big Three, play good defense and go to the tournament all the time.  That 23-8 team that was on a five game winning streak prior to COVID canceling the season was the closest we've seen to that ideal.  Coach Ford has been trying to replicate that team ever since but hasn't been able to pull it off.

[TheA_Bomb]

4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Regardless of what has happened this season up to this point, that was a really good win.  St. Joe's has a win over Villanova at Villanova this year and took Kentucky to overtime in Lexington.

I agree, SJU's volume of 3PT shots is an interesting strategy. I think the strategy should be tempered with an inside presence like Oats at Alabama. Either take a 2 at the rim or shoot a 3. A good strategy for a school like SLU where it is hard to get good big men and really hard to have big man depth would be 4 out 1 in, shoot threes, clear out for slashes to the rim (big man moves out to pull away his defender) and that Majerus legend of the stretch 4 that can hit 3s pulling away another defender from the paint.

To the discussion started regarding @thetorch's criticism of undersized guards. It is hard for them to be good defenders but they should bring something else at a very high level (see Yuri's assists or Max Abmas at Texas' scoring) to make up for that deficiency. Maybe last night's solid ball handling and ice cold FT shooting is a glimpse at what Medley can bring at a high level.

[gobillsgo]

39 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

I contend we have more raw talent than is seen on surface.   It just is not being developed.   As I've said since Ford first came, he is not a practice or development coach.

Think back to rickma's great teams.  When they first arrived, Mitchell was the only one ready imo.   But rickma develops players in all facets and prepared to the nth degree 

I certainly agree with the bolded part. Rick saw the importance/necessity of blooding freshmen early to help them develop. If Ford were coach in 08-09, Mitchell would’ve sat the bench behind Lisch, Eckerle, and Liddell, and then transferred to SEMO. 

 

There is ZERO reason Curcic shouldn’t be getting at least 8-10mpg. 

[TheA_Bomb]

1 minute ago, gobillsgo said:

I certainly agree with the bolded part. Rick saw the importance/necessity of blooding freshmen early to help them develop. If Ford were coach in 08-09, Mitchell would’ve sat the bench behind Lisch, Eckerle, and Liddell, and then transferred to SEMO. 

 

There is ZERO reason Curcic shouldn’t be getting at least 8-10mpg. 

If you're going to play some cupcakes get these guys in the game. I agree with the strategy to try and play transition and to press. However, I don't agree with the strategy to abandon it when you have 2 players out for 2 games. If you're going to lose why not lose while keeping your system going so guys learn.  We bring up the 20 point game a lot and it was painful but Majerus had a system a way of doing things and he took the short term loss for the long term gain and it eventually paid off. 

[brianstl]

12 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Coach Majerus brought in a lot of players who were already fundamentally sound on offense.  Note that players like Mitchell, Evans, Jett, Cassity and McCall also had had good defensive reputations.  Majerus got on McCall's case because he took shortcuts on defense, not because he couldn't create turnovers. 

When you have a good defensive core then the job is turning those guys into a great defensive core.  His teams didn't have to score that much because they routinely held the other team to under 65 points.  

That's one way of winning but it's not the only way.  We see other programs roll out a Big Three, play good defense and go to the tournament all the time.  That 23-8 team that was on a five game winning streak prior to COVID canceling the season was the closest we've seen to that ideal.  Coach Ford has been trying to replicate that team ever since but hasn't been able to pull it off.

Majerus's teams didn't have to score much because they controlled the tempo.  His best teams were actually really good on the offensive end.  The 11-12 Billikens were great defensively ranking 12th in Pomeroy's adjusted efficiency ratings and ranked a strong 34th in the adjusted offensive efficiency ratings.  That team was a much better team on the offensive end than this season's which ranks 87th in the adjusted offensive efficiency ratings

[johnbj14]

Majerus’ teams also were in the 35 second shot clock era. It was a very different paced time in college basketball. He obviously was still a masterful defensive tactician, and would have still put out great defenses in this shorter clock world. 

[willie]

This might not be rocket science but I thought the team {Ford} did a good job at the end of the game. With 7+ seconds left he set his defense up at half court trying to take away the long pass. He had  Jimmer foul not giving up the 3. He set up an inbounds play and got the ball to his free throw shooters. For a man who we say can't coach he didn't screw it up.