I hate Phil Forte

[cheeseman]

I know times have changed but it had been that when an assistant left he did not recruit the players he had signed for the school he left.  I understand those days gone but apparently Forte felt no loyalty to Ford.  What does that tell you.  For those who say take a million away and put it into salaries for players - where does this money come from and when it does what gets shortchanged?

[willie]

39 minutes ago, DOC said:

None of it matters, except the money, until you get to the guy’s not getting much. We need to cut a million from the basketball payroll and stick it into player’s salary. 

California is in the process of passing legislation that will treat athletes as employees. Certain percentages of revenue must then be given to players. Stay tuned.

[TheA_Bomb]

8 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I know times have changed but it had been that when an assistant left he did not recruit the players he had signed for the school he left.  I understand those days gone but apparently Forte felt no loyalty to Ford.  What does that tell you.  For those who say take a million away and put it into salaries for players - where does this money come from and when it does what gets shortchanged?

Just speculation that Ford's $2.4mil/year salary is partially subsidized by big money donors (BMD.  If that $2.4mil/year obligation were less then that money could be donated to BVF for NIL.  That's assuming a zero sum game.  I think it's reasonable to think that our BMDs will continue to donate about what they have been donating and therefore this is a possible solution to the portal issues we've seen. If we start to see results then they maybe more apt to donate more and others might jump in and donate as well. 

[brianstl]

40 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Just speculation that Ford's $2.4mil/year salary is partially subsidized by big money donors (BMD.  If that $2.4mil/year obligation were less then that money could be donated to BVF for NIL.  That's assuming a zero sum game.  I think it's reasonable to think that our BMDs will continue to donate about what they have been donating and therefore this is a possible solution to the portal issues we've seen. If we start to see results then they maybe more apt to donate more and others might jump in and donate as well. 

Ideally you could redirect donor money spent on the coach to NIL and use NCAA Tournament units to subsidize raises for the head coach and staff.  You need to actually earn more than one unit every seven seasons to do that.

[billiken_roy]

24 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Ideally you could redirect donor money spent on the coach to NIL and use NCAA Tournament units to subsidize raises for the head coach and staff.  You need to actually earn more than one unit every seven seasons to do that.

imo that's when they deserve raises and extensions.   have some success man!

[WVBilliken]

5 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

True so you're saying Ford was completely blind sided that 1 of his assistants was thinking about moving on and thus unaware the impact that would have on recruiting.   A head coach with the trust of his staff/players will be attuned to their aspirations, possible moves, life stuff.  To not know on such a small staff and with a small group is not good.

Suspect you nor any of the posters on this Board have a clue about the dynamics within Ford's organization/coaching staff.  Just blowing smoke......

[cheeseman]

4 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Just speculation that Ford's $2.4mil/year salary is partially subsidized by big money donors (BMD.  If that $2.4mil/year obligation were less then that money could be donated to BVF for NIL.  That's assuming a zero sum game.  I think it's reasonable to think that our BMDs will continue to donate about what they have been donating and therefore this is a possible solution to the portal issues we've seen. If we start to see results then they maybe more apt to donate more and others might jump in and donate as well. 

So your idea is based on Ford voluntarily taking a pay cut? or do you mean paying a new coach less?

[TheA_Bomb]

56 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Suspect you nor any of the posters on this Board have a clue about the dynamics within Ford's organization/coaching staff.  Just blowing smoke......

Here's what i do know Forte played for Ford, he coached with him on two occasions. This is a close and continuing relationship. Forte moved on and not to what we'd view as a step up program wise and took a transfer commitment with him.  That is not good and points to Ford not knowing what his staff is up to. 

Do you think Ford knew Forte would move on and take CJ with him?

If so why sign CJ in the first place? If not this points to issues with not knowing what's going on. 

So I do know about staff dynamics in this specific circumstance which is a clue to the whole. The indicators are not good. 

[TheA_Bomb]

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

So your idea is based on Ford voluntarily taking a pay cut? or do you mean paying a new coach less?

Ford needs to go. He's already proven he will underachieve with Marcus Smart so getting him better players won't help.  Next coach we can try this method.  

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Ford needs to go. He's already proven he will underachieve with Marcus Smart so getting him better players won't help.  Next coach we can try this method.  

Thanks for answering the question.  So we know Ford is back for next year right or wrong therefore, your idea is 2 years out.  To get a coach to buy your idea he is not going to be an experienced D1 coach who has had success elsewhere.  If we hire an unknown will the fan base be happy?  I not saying they will or won't be just asking.

[TheChosenOne]

4 hours ago, willie said:

California is in the process of passing legislation that will treat athletes as employees. Certain percentages of revenue must then be given to players. Stay tuned.

It is so odd to me that boosters/fans are being asked to compensate the players directly in addition to so many other aspects of the program/athletic department that they are also funding (I saw someone above mentioning Ford's compensation being one, the locker room project, the champions center, etc.). Again, I am not pretending to know all of the factors at play nor do I care to learn them, but when the SEC and Big Ten bring in the media dollars they do it is beyond wild to me that the compensation of players isn't coming directly from that. Yeah, hard pass getting me to kick money directly for players. If a portion of the money I spend as a fan goes to the players, that is great, but beyond that just seems so silly.

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

It is so odd to me that boosters/fans are being asked to compensate the players directly in addition to so many other aspects of the program/athletic department that they are also funding (I saw someone above mentioning Ford's compensation being one, the locker room project, the champions center, etc.). Again, I am not pretending to know all of the factors at play nor do I care to learn them, but when the SEC and Big Ten bring in the media dollars they do it is beyond wild to me that the compensation of players isn't coming directly from that. Yeah, hard pass getting me to kick money directly for players. If a portion of the money I spend as a fan goes to the players, that is great, but beyond that just seems so silly.

Would you think that not only would the athletes have to declare the NIL as income but would they now have to declare the schollie or I guess it could be treated as scholarship money for academic purpose.

[TheChosenOne]

Obviously I am not a whale so the program has no reason to care that I would not kick $ to players, but the idea of having that conversation with my wife has me chuckling. 10 nieces and nephews, but you want to financially support a random basketball player? I'm already on her radar due to my continued interest in Chaminade basketball, this would certainly be the last straw.

[VeniceMenace]

8 hours ago, brianstl said:

Noland hadn’t even committed to SLU when that tweet was made.

Hence the thread title and the initial post of this thread are a bit much.

[JMM28]

32 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Obviously I am not a whale so the program has no reason to care that I would not kick $ to players, but the idea of having that conversation with my wife has me chuckling. 10 nieces and nephews, but you want to financially support a random basketball player? I'm already on her radar due to my continued interest in Chaminade basketball, this would certainly be the last straw.

Nieces and nephews are for the birds. So are wives that don't get it. I'd suggest a decent divorce attorney and a studio apartment. Get your act together, sir. 

[Cowboy II]

41 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Obviously I am not a whale so the program has no reason to care that I would not kick $ to players, but the idea of having that conversation with my wife has me chuckling. 10 nieces and nephews, but you want to financially support a random basketball player? I'm already on her radar due to my continued interest in Chaminade basketball, this would certainly be the last straw.

-did I hear correctly that CCP got a highly regarded bball transfer for the upcoming season?

[brianstl]

4 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-did I hear correctly that CCP got a highly regarded bball transfer for the upcoming season?

Yes, Chosen’s newly adopted nephew.

[thetorch]

Just checking but no one thinks Forte took Robert Allen away from us?  

Allen and Noland were always rumored to be a package deal.  Forte has multiple connections to both.

I don't think Forte/Allen/Noland package is that far-fetched.

[almaman]

12 hours ago, thetorch said:

So in retrospect this mysterious tweet was most certainly about Phil Forte 

Ford takes a flier on young Phil.

Phil gets zero recruits for SLU and wastes time and money on his TX connections.

When Phil finally grabs a couple kids, he jumps ship for a new job and takes them with him.

SLU and Ford are left high and dry.

I've never seen a Billikens Asst simply turn on the program like this. 

Forte is the ultimate tool.

The worst part is Forte took over for his deceased friend and Ford's nephew Stuen. Without his untimely death Forte would still be washing jockstraps. Way to honor Stuen's memory Phil.

I hope we play North Texas every year so we can heckle and boo this bum.

as they beat our ass !?

[almaman]

9 hours ago, Cowboy II said:

-why Tulsa? do you live there? am I missing another joke?

all easy 4-5 hr drive. + Louisville too.

[majerus mojo]

56 minutes ago, thetorch said:

Just checking but no one thinks Forte took Robert Allen away from us?  

Allen and Noland were always rumored to be a package deal.  Forte has multiple connections to both.

I don't think Forte/Allen/Noland package is that far-fetched.

The best part of that tweet are all of the replies ripping on it. Between this thread and the Yuri to Kansas State thread, you are really grinding that axe 

[majerus mojo]

13 hours ago, thetorch said:

 

The worst part is Forte took over for his deceased friend and Ford's nephew Stuen. Without his untimely death Forte would still be washing jockstraps. Way to honor Stuen's memory Phil..

What an outrageous thing to write on a message board based on a random tweet 

[slufan13]

Forte did what was best for him and his career which everyone would and should do. The problem is that Forte never made sense on our staff and now it's costing us. I think ACE has said this multiple times over the past 18+ months. We need guys with east coast ties. Ford absolutely gets unfair blame for a lot of stuff but I don't think he gets enough blame for how he has constructed his coaching staff. 

[billiken_roy]

1 minute ago, slufan13 said:

Forte did what was best for him and his career which everyone would and should do. The problem is that Forte never made sense on our staff and now it's costing us. I think ACE has said this multiple times over the past 18+ months. We need guys with east coast ties. Ford absolutely gets unfair blame for a lot of stuff but I don't think he gets enough blame for how he has constructed his coaching staff. 

very good post 13.   i totally agree.  what has bothered me from pretty much the onset, his weakness is game and practice coaching, yet he pretty much has an entire staff that is pretty much all recruiters.   hey travis, put your ego to the side and hire someone that actually coach a game and make players better via practice.  you just hit the road with your assistants recruiting and then stand at the half line stomping your feet and making sarcastic comments to the refs.   find someone else who can actually coach the players. 

[wgstl]

27 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Forte did what was best for him and his career which everyone would and should do. The problem is that Forte never made sense on our staff and now it's costing us. I think ACE has said this multiple times over the past 18+ months. We need guys with east coast ties. Ford absolutely gets unfair blame for a lot of stuff but I don't think he gets enough blame for how he has constructed his coaching staff. 

He gets no blame for Forte departing, correct.  But Ford does get blame for not building a relationship with Vice.  We had him committed for a decent period of time and there was no connection between Ford and Vice. Once a player is even decently interested in a program its time for the HC to step in to avoid these types of problems.  He did not do that.  Noland was too short of a time frame to blame Ford for much there.