GDT: Dayton was a top 5 team and still missed the tourney

[TheA_Bomb]

You can't go 3-10 vs your biggest rival.

You can't be the top paid coach with the best facilities in conference and more coming and get these results. 

 

Back in the day we had excuses West Pine, no charter flights in a conference of basketball powerhouses. We don't have those limiting factors anymore. 

[slu72]

3 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Bullet points:

1. Season’s over, huge disappointment.

2. Which players will return?

3. Will Ford be retained?

4. If not, which signees will re-open recruitment, and who will May target?

5. Only one way to describe this season and, repeating for emphasis, a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT.

My thoughts on above:

1) agree. It will take a miracle to win in Bklyn. 
2) This may depend on Ford’s status. Right now I figure only TJ, Parker, and the FR will still be Bills. 
3) That tweet last night from Ross Chaifetz has me wondering. But this won’t be answered until April. A lot of factors to consider. 
4)Again, all depends on Ford’s situation. 
5) That is a HUGE UNDERSTATEMENT. 

[Dr. Holly Hills]

Said in a previous post, but the NIT doesn’t move the needle for me.  Only post season is ncaa tourney.  And with the expanded field in recent years, it’s sad we can’t get there.

 

ford will continue to roll out the same players he has because he thinks they are the ones that will give him the best chance of winning and he is playing for regular season wins right now. Not to develop players.  

[NYBilliken]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

This team was 7-2 and and 41 in the Pomeroy rankings after the SIU game.  It was an at large team. How do fall apart this bad?

Credit to all die-hard Billikens supporters who sat through that entire game last night. After the first few minutes, it was tough to watch such an epic failure in a key game.

As other commenters have already said, problems included failure to establish Okoro as scorer inside was key, especially as he has scoring well lately in other games. Failing to keep finding Jimerson and Perkins good shots when they were shooting well, or to fully establish Parker as 3 pt threat. Failing to win or draw the physical battle overall. Failure to have consistent ball movement among five players on the floor. Failure to consistently find good shots and shoot with confidence. Failure to play with confidence through the entire game.

So, what is to be done for the rest of this season - after this loss and the home loss to VCU? These games show where Bills are right now, as a team – maybe an NIT team, certainly a team that is achieving less than its individual players’ talents promise. Billikens may have been overrated – but they can be better than they were last night. Yes, we lost Thatch for the rest of season, and Perkins lingering injury has been difficult. In any case, this is a team still searching for answers as we head into key final weeks of the season.

Here are possible steps to take for rest of this season (all easier said than done):

Play with an underdog mentality and energy for 40 minutes every game. We are now expected NOT to win, NOT to dominate any game, or NOT to make serious threat to win this conference. Instead of being discouraged, team needs to rally and prove the critics wrong. Do not slow down the game or play to the score. Get a lead, build the lead, stay aggressive. Will this team rally, or lose heart?

Need to continue to improve defensive effort without fouling. Defense has actually improved over the course of the season, but this needs to improve to another level, and playing time should be allocated accordingly.

Need to combine Collins’ skills with better ball movement among all five players on the floor, with better shot discipline, and keep shooting these shots with confidence, make or miss, win or lose. Channeling Gene Hackman in Hoosiers: "Pass the ball!" And when there not a good shot to be had, draw more fouls, get to the foul line. Get back to playing with confidence on offense, as the 80 pts/game team that began the season.

Need to establish Okoro inside. Last night result should not happen again. Let Cisse be part of regular rotation if that helps Okoro avoid foul trouble.

What else would you advise to coach and players to better position this team for Feb and March? Expectations are now low, coach firing discussions will continue, but what actual changes would you make now to turn this show around?

[Schasz]

31 minutes ago, NYBilliken said:

Credit to all die-hard Billikens supporters who sat through that entire game last night. After the first few minutes, it was tough to watch such an epic failure in a key game.

As other commenters have already said, problems included failure to establish Okoro as scorer inside was key, especially as he has scoring well lately in other games. Failing to keep finding Jimerson and Perkins good shots when they were shooting well, or to fully establish Parker as 3 pt threat. Failing to win or draw the physical battle overall. Failure to have consistent ball movement among five players on the floor. Failure to consistently find good shots and shoot with confidence. Failure to play with confidence through the entire game.

So, what is to be done for the rest of this season - after this loss and the home loss to VCU? These games show where Bills are right now, as a team – maybe an NIT team, certainly a team that is achieving less than its individual players’ talents promise. Billikens may have been overrated – but they can be better than they were last night. Yes, we lost Thatch for the rest of season, and Perkins lingering injury has been difficult. In any case, this is a team still searching for answers as we head into key final weeks of the season.

Here are possible steps to take for rest of this season (all easier said than done):

Play with an underdog mentality and energy for 40 minutes every game. We are now expected NOT to win, NOT to dominate any game, or NOT to make serious threat to win this conference. Instead of being discouraged, team needs to rally and prove the critics wrong. Do not slow down the game or play to the score. Get a lead, build the lead, stay aggressive. Will this team rally, or lose heart?

Need to continue to improve defensive effort without fouling. Defense has actually improved over the course of the season, but this needs to improve to another level, and playing time should be allocated accordingly.

Need to combine Collins’ skills with better ball movement among all five players on the floor, with better shot discipline, and keep shooting these shots with confidence, make or miss, win or lose. Channeling Gene Hackman in Hoosiers: "Pass the ball!" And when there not a good shot to be had, draw more fouls, get to the foul line. Get back to playing with confidence on offense, as the 80 pts/game team that began the season.

Need to establish Okoro inside. Last night result should not happen again. Let Cisse be part of regular rotation if that helps Okoro avoid foul trouble.

What else would you advise to coach and players to better position this team for Feb and March? Expectations are now low, coach firing discussions will continue, but what actual changes would you make now to turn this show around?

Let Corey Tate Coach the team the final 6 games of the season. Travis Ford has proven he does not have a clue!!!

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

That tweet last night from Ross Chaifetz has me wondering. But this won’t be answered until April. A lot of factors to consider. 

Post this if you can please. I don't have twitter.

[White Pelican]

51 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Post this if you can please. I don't have twitter.

He is quoted as saying "unacceptable." That was in response to a tweet by Stu about the Bills having only 2 FGs and 8 points in the second half with 6:36 left in the game. So there is some game context to the tweet. I don't read anything else into it.

If there was any other tweets by him, I didn't see them.

 

[billikenbill]

2 hours ago, NYBilliken said:

Credit to all die-hard Billikens supporters who sat through that entire game last night. After the first few minutes, it was tough to watch such an epic failure in a key game.

As other commenters have already said, problems included failure to establish Okoro as scorer inside was key, especially as he has scoring well lately in other games. Failing to keep finding Jimerson and Perkins good shots when they were shooting well, or to fully establish Parker as 3 pt threat. Failing to win or draw the physical battle overall. Failure to have consistent ball movement among five players on the floor. Failure to consistently find good shots and shoot with confidence. Failure to play with confidence through the entire game.

So, what is to be done for the rest of this season - after this loss and the home loss to VCU? These games show where Bills are right now, as a team – maybe an NIT team, certainly a team that is achieving less than its individual players’ talents promise. Billikens may have been overrated – but they can be better than they were last night. Yes, we lost Thatch for the rest of season, and Perkins lingering injury has been difficult. In any case, this is a team still searching for answers as we head into key final weeks of the season.

Here are possible steps to take for rest of this season (all easier said than done):

Play with an underdog mentality and energy for 40 minutes every game. We are now expected NOT to win, NOT to dominate any game, or NOT to make serious threat to win this conference. Instead of being discouraged, team needs to rally and prove the critics wrong. Do not slow down the game or play to the score. Get a lead, build the lead, stay aggressive. Will this team rally, or lose heart?

Need to continue to improve defensive effort without fouling. Defense has actually improved over the course of the season, but this needs to improve to another level, and playing time should be allocated accordingly.

Need to combine Collins’ skills with better ball movement among all five players on the floor, with better shot discipline, and keep shooting these shots with confidence, make or miss, win or lose. Channeling Gene Hackman in Hoosiers: "Pass the ball!" And when there not a good shot to be had, draw more fouls, get to the foul line. Get back to playing with confidence on offense, as the 80 pts/game team that began the season.

Need to establish Okoro inside. Last night result should not happen again. Let Cisse be part of regular rotation if that helps Okoro avoid foul trouble.

What else would you advise to coach and players to better position this team for Feb and March? Expectations are now low, coach firing discussions will continue, but what actual changes would you make now to turn this show around?

I’m going back and watching the game to try to answer your question. At this point, it’s 28-27 us at 5:10 in the first. My biggest takeaway so far is we have to play smarter. For example, we have three straight turnovers after the 2 Jimerson threes. First, a travel on TJ. Maybe the ref missed the call but why even come close to travelling there. Put the ball on the deck and drive, no need to overthink it, just do it.

Next possession, we set the screen for the TJ lob. The play is run perfectly but Yuri inexplicably completely misses his target. The pass is off course a good three feet. Not so much a dumb play but how can the execution be so bad?

Next possession, Franco receives the ball with about 5 on the clock. He shows no awareness of the situation and dribbles out the clock never even getting a shot off. Franco works hard, gives it everything he has, but doesn’t seem to understand some of the rules. You have to shoot it late in the clock and you can’t put 2 hands on the man you’re guarding. Very basic stuff.

A little later, Pickett commits a rebounding foul where instead of blocking out, he basically mugs the guy when neither is in position for the rebound. He did the same thing in another game recently, think it was Fordham. That’s just ridiculously bad basketball. 

Take out the dumb plays, make a few very makeable shots and instead of being up one, you’re up 7 or so at this point and Franco is still playing. 

[CenHudDude]

2 hours ago, NYBilliken said:

Credit to all die-hard Billikens supporters who sat through that entire game last night. After the first few minutes, it was tough to watch such an epic failure in a key game.

As other commenters have already said, problems included failure to establish Okoro as scorer inside was key, especially as he has scoring well lately in other games. Failing to keep finding Jimerson and Perkins good shots when they were shooting well, or to fully establish Parker as 3 pt threat. Failing to win or draw the physical battle overall. Failure to have consistent ball movement among five players on the floor. Failure to consistently find good shots and shoot with confidence. Failure to play with confidence through the entire game.

So, what is to be done for the rest of this season - after this loss and the home loss to VCU? These games show where Bills are right now, as a team – maybe an NIT team, certainly a team that is achieving less than its individual players’ talents promise. Billikens may have been overrated – but they can be better than they were last night. Yes, we lost Thatch for the rest of season, and Perkins lingering injury has been difficult. In any case, this is a team still searching for answers as we head into key final weeks of the season.

Here are possible steps to take for rest of this season (all easier said than done):

Play with an underdog mentality and energy for 40 minutes every game. We are now expected NOT to win, NOT to dominate any game, or NOT to make serious threat to win this conference. Instead of being discouraged, team needs to rally and prove the critics wrong. Do not slow down the game or play to the score. Get a lead, build the lead, stay aggressive. Will this team rally, or lose heart?

Need to continue to improve defensive effort without fouling. Defense has actually improved over the course of the season, but this needs to improve to another level, and playing time should be allocated accordingly.

Need to combine Collins’ skills with better ball movement among all five players on the floor, with better shot discipline, and keep shooting these shots with confidence, make or miss, win or lose. Channeling Gene Hackman in Hoosiers: "Pass the ball!" And when there not a good shot to be had, draw more fouls, get to the foul line. Get back to playing with confidence on offense, as the 80 pts/game team that began the season.

Need to establish Okoro inside. Last night result should not happen again. Let Cisse be part of regular rotation if that helps Okoro avoid foul trouble.

What else would you advise to coach and players to better position this team for Feb and March? Expectations are now low, coach firing discussions will continue, but what actual changes would you make now to turn this show around?

I can’t add to the many suggestions that you made for the rest of the season.  I think most of them are fine.  What I totally agree with what you said though is “(all easier said than done)”.

[brianstl]

6 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

He is quoted as saying "unacceptable." That was in response to a tweet by Stu about the Bills having only 2 FGs and 8 points in the second half with 6:36 left in the game. So there is some game context to the tweet. I don't read anything else into it.

If there was any other tweets by him, I didn't see them.

 

I took it to mean a lot because Ross’s tweet basically echoed his father’s tweet  a week before.  Ross follows this board, follows what is being said on social media and knows his father’s tweet was taken by most as a shot at Ford.  He knew people would take his tweet the same way and Ross wouldn’t have tweeted what he did if he didn’t want it to be taken as a shot at Ford.  His tweet was made with a purposeful intent.

[TonyMurkens]

Yuri

[BANGheGOTit]

Texas A&M made a lineup change after struggling, went with 2 bigs and currently sit at 9-2 in the SEC.  Amazing that Buzz Williams would have the nerve to make such a decision.  He surely hasn’t watched the Travis Ford coaching 101 video.

[HoosierPal]

Fourth chart is kind of a plus minus chart for the game.

 

[VeniceMenace]

12 hours ago, brianstl said:

This team was 7-2 and and 41 in the Pomeroy rankings after the SIU game.  It was an at large team. How do fall apart this bad?

Saw where Ford is now 7-23 vs top 4 teams in A10, so that might explain it.

[billikenbill]

Finished watching the replay. I’m at the point where I don’t think this is all on Ford’s coaching. The fact is we’re just not that good. We get nothing from the post, have no power forward, aren’t especially quick, and have inconsistent shooters. Parker and Pickett had miserable games on top of that.

The frustrating thing is watching our post players commit unnecessary fouls and turnovers game after game along with their inability to finish in the lane. 

Bottom line is we need better players. The question is can Ford convince those kind of players to play in the western outpost of the East Coast Bus League. If you ask me, that’s a tall order.

[billiken_roy]

8 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Finished watching the replay. I’m at the point where I don’t think this is all on Ford’s coaching. The fact is we’re just not that good. We get nothing from the post, have no power forward, aren’t especially quick, and have inconsistent shooters. Parker and Pickett had miserable games on top of that.

The frustrating thing is watching our post players commit unnecessary fouls and turnovers game after game along with their inability to finish in the lane. 

Bottom line is we need better players. The question is can Ford convince those kind of players to play in the western outpost of the East Coast Bus League. If you ask me, that’s a tall order.

i think a lot of what you write, has gradually happened.   i.e. the players have regressed.   why would that happen?  imo they seem to have given up.   they dont play with the fire needed to win.   i would bet there is decension amongst the team and they arent all in with whatever ford is selling.   when a player has a lower level of care, and no longer has the vision and focus of the end we obviously want, they are going to appear to be the lesser talents.  

we have seen each of them have games and play at the level we want and need.   so i dont think it is a matter of misjudged talent.   i refuse to let ford off the hook on his game to game job and by blaming the level of talent is giving him an out for him doing his job.  

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i think a lot of what you write, has gradually happened.   i.e. the players have regressed.   why would that happen?  imo they seem to have given up.   they dont play with the fire needed to win.   i would bet there is decension amongst the team and they arent all in with whatever ford is selling.   when a player has a lower level of care, and no longer has the vision and focus of the end we obviously want, they are going to appear to be the lesser talents.  

we have seen each of them have games and play at the level we want and need.   so i dont think it is a matter of misjudged talent.   i refuse to let ford off the hook on his game to game job and by blaming the level of talent is giving him an out for him doing his job.  

Something isn't right

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Something isn't right

i know.   ford has performed his worst this season.   he has shown the poor floor coach he is X 1,000,000.  he's always had pretty good endings to each season and salvage enough to give us hope.   this season is headed straight off the cliff and if the season was to end today i dont think any of us would have great hopes for 2023-24.   where we are now is mainly on ford.   there a couple of players i detest their play on the floor currently, but imo that too is on ford.   it is his job to motivate, teach and put them in a position to succeed.    he hasnt.  

[BANGheGOTit]

13 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i know.   ford has performed his worst this season.   he has shown the poor floor coach he is X 1,000,000.  he's always had pretty good endings to each season and salvage enough to give us hope.   this season is headed straight off the cliff and if the season was to end today i dont think any of us would have great hopes for 2023-24.   where we are now is mainly on ford.   there a couple of players i detest their play on the floor currently, but imo that too is on ford.   it is his job to motivate, teach and put them in a position to succeed.    he hasnt.  

Everyone will say I’m just a Yuri hater, but when the stir that stirs the drink has a slit in the side of it, the performance is going to be compromised.  We’ve all taken a drink of our 32oz drink on a hot day with a split straw and been disappointed. What is the “slit” in Yuri’s game?  For all the positives in his game and what he brings to the team, there doesn’t look to be leadership skills.  Too many bad shot selections, too much hero ball, and if the transfer issue bothered the fans—how much did that have to bother your brothers that you fought with.  You were willing to bail on them for personal gain.  The “greatest PG” in Billiken history is the main reason this team is a huge disappointment.  Ford didn’t have a decent backup and is too afraid to make any changes like a quality coach needs to be able to do.  Ford is incapable of changing any of his schemes.  He chose to ride Yuri.  Go look up what the Drake coach has done while missing some of his best players in different seasons.  Buzz Williams changes his plan and is 10-2 in the SEC. Good coaches coach.  

[dlarry]

18 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Everyone will say I’m just a Yuri hater, but when the stir that stirs the drink has a slit in the side of it, the performance is going to be compromised.  We’ve all taken a drink of our 32oz drink on a hot day with a split straw and been disappointed. What is the “slit” in Yuri’s game?  For all the positives in his game and what he brings to the team, there doesn’t look to be leadership skills.  Too many bad shot selections, too much hero ball, and if the transfer issue bothered the fans—how much did that have to bother your brothers that you fought with.  You were willing to bail on them for personal gain.  The “greatest PG” in Billiken history is the main reason this team is a huge disappointment.  Ford didn’t have a decent backup and is too afraid to make any changes like a quality coach needs to be able to do.  Ford is incapable of changing any of his schemes.  He chose to ride Yuri.  Go look up what the Drake coach has done while missing some of his best players in different seasons.  Buzz Williams changes his plan and is 10-2 in the SEC. Good coaches coach.  

I thought it was odd a few weeks back when Ford came out and said something along the lines of “we are having some chemistry problems we hope to figure out.” 
The next quotes were from Collins saying “we don’t have any chemistry problems we all like each other and get along.”

It sure looks like they have major chemistry problems to me. 
 

I wonder why they might be having chemistry problems? 
I certainly have my guesses.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

28 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I thought it was odd a few weeks back when Ford came out and said something along the lines of “we are having some chemistry problems we hope to figure out.” 
The next quotes were from Collins saying “we don’t have any chemistry problems we all like each other and get along.”

It sure looks like they have major chemistry problems to me. 
 

I wonder why they might be having chemistry problems? 
I certainly have my guesses.

Same My guess is the team is split between 2 groups: those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is bad and those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is horrible and it’s tearing this team apart in the locker room.  

[billikenbill]

14 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Same My guess is the team is split between 2 groups: those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is bad and those that think Knives Out Glass Onion is horrible and it’s tearing this team apart in the locker room.  

I don’t know what this means. Guess I’ll have to google it.

EDIT: OK, I think it means we shoot a lot of Blancs.

[Schasz]

10 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Finished watching the replay. I’m at the point where I don’t think this is all on Ford’s coaching. The fact is we’re just not that good. We get nothing from the post, have no power forward, aren’t especially quick, and have inconsistent shooters. Parker and Pickett had miserable games on top of that.

The frustrating thing is watching our post players commit unnecessary fouls and turnovers game after game along with their inability to finish in the lane. 

Bottom line is we need better players. The question is can Ford convince those kind of players to play in the western outpost of the East Coast Bus League. If you ask me, that’s a tall order.

I've read time and again on this website what a great job Travis Ford has done in bringing in better recruits to SLU. If that was true and frankly I never really bought into that notion it is still his job to coach up the recruits...forget that notion too.

Ford is not the answer as HC at SLU. I'm thinking the powers (including donors) have come to that realization. At least for Billiken fans I sure hope so. Seven years is long enough and it's time to find a new HC.

[BANGheGOTit]

5 minutes ago, Schasz said:

I've read time and again on this website what a great job Travis Ford has done in bringing in better recruits to SLU. If that was true and frankly I never really bought into that notion it is still his job to coach up the recruits...forget that notion too.

Ford is not the answer as HC at SLU. I'm thinking the powers (including donors) have come to that realization. At least for Billiken fans I sure hope so. Seven years is long enough and it's time to find a new HC.

Many lesser name coaches can coach circles around Travis.  He’s a good overall coach, but until he adapts-he has reached his ceiling.  At this point is it even possible to change philosophy for him?  These are good players but they aren’t great players.  A group of good players can become a great team but it takes coaching.  Travis may very well win at a high level, but eventually he will get out coached and be overmatched.  Teams know how to beat him now.  

[billikenbill]

My guess is Ford gets two more years but who knows.