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2022-2023 Season


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Just now, AnkielBreakers said:

Thatch must just feel like chopped liver with the way this board chirps about backup PG.

Thatch will attempt to do anything we ask of him. But asking him to play point guard plays into his weaknesses.  Average ball handler, average passer.

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3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If just about any mid-major team in America loses it's point guard for two games, their NCAA bid is in jeopardy.  That's just the way it is at this level.  Nobody has the luxury of bringing in a point guard off the bench who is comparable to the starting point guard they're going up against.

Don't have to be comparable, that's asking for a lot.  

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1 minute ago, wgstl said:

but why, that's not really his position? 

He was the best backup PG during the second half of this past season. It especially showed during the last game when Yuri was out. If you define PG as the person who sets up a play and works to get someone a good shot. Thatch struggles against tough defense getting the ball up the court, but that is the same as almost everyone on the roster.

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2 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I agree with this but even missing Yuri for one game in the NIT resulted in a loss. UNI was a good team and adding an offensive weapon like Perkins will help this season even if Yuri missed time but unless we are playing the bottom dwellers (and probably at home), I feel like we will struggle even if Yuri missed say 2-3 games. I hope we can build up enough wiggle room that a few losses wouldn't tank us but as 3star said, the margin for error is low

Ya I had noted that personally I think the team checked out when they found out Yuri was not playing.  You just barely missed the tourney, your best player missed all year, and your best current player is now out.  I dont really fault them if this was the case. 

 

That being said, I don't think we see that same outcome if we were playing a game against lets say Duquesne, or mercer earlier in the year.   

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4 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Second on the team in Assists per game. What?

Jones had more per 40 minutes. Fred had 2.6 Jones had 3.6.  Jones also had 1.7 TO per game to Freds 2.2

 

Tip of the hat to Fred, he has done a great job of what he was asked to do, doesn't mean its what he should continue doing unless needed. 

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4 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

He was the best backup PG during the second half of this past season. It especially showed during the last game when Yuri was out. If you define PG as the person who sets up a play and works to get someone a good shot. Thatch struggles against tough defense getting the ball up the court, but that is the same as almost everyone on the roster.

Maybe second best after Deandre.

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There are different degrees of injuries ..... there is the Collins'/wrist injury where he plays through it.  The Collins leg issue where he misses the Northern Iowa game.  Then there is the Javonte Perkins torn ACL season-ending injury.  Each level takes the stakes up a notch; each opponent amplifies or lessens those stakes.

Playing through is obvious.  Missing a game or two is likely not as catastrophic playing SIU-E as it would be against Maryland.  And I'm ignoring the last one because no one wants to see that again.  According to Verbal Commits, Yuri is the only point guard on our entire roster.  Even Thames is listed as a shooting guard.  We've offered four point guards for next year, all but one under 6' feet tall.  Thames is listed at 6'6".  This makes his development all the more intriguing to me.  And that development would take pressure off any and all freshmen point guards coming in to a degree.  

If there are no injuries, I fully believe we can withstand a 5 to 10 minute period with Yuri out and a collection of Perkins, Thatch, Thames, and/or Hughes doing enough to weather the storm.  If I were game planning against SLU, job #1 would be to wear Collins down and out as quickly as possible.  As the rosters stand now, I can only see Dayton, Umass and VCU having the rotation of players to do it.

 

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

Jones had more per 40 minutes. Fred had 2.6 Jones had 3.6.  Jones also had 1.7 TO per game to Freds 2.2

 

Tip of the hat to Fred, he has done a great job of what he was asked to do, doesn't mean its what he should continue doing unless needed. 

It is a great stat and it can tell a lot, but it can also be misleading. Per 40, Jones would have been roasted in D. He also struggled to drive on people in the A10. Turnovers could have become an issue. Good teams would have keyed on it and it might have hurt his linear output. Greater shooter, so he had that as a major upside.
 

Thatch as a point guard is a lot like Goodwin, just not as polished. Good at driving and putting his defender on the defensive and making a pass to a designated big guy, or a basic kick out. He also has that pseudo point-forward that Goodwin brought. He needs other ball handlers around him to help, but I think he showed enough last year that TF will try to build upon it.

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5 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

It is a great stat and it can tell a lot, but it can also be misleading. Per 40, Jones would have been roasted in D. He also struggled to drive on people in the A10. Turnovers could have become an issue. Good teams would have keyed on it and it might have hurt his linear output. Greater shooter, so he had that as a major upside.
 

Thatch as a point guard is a lot like Goodwin, just not as polished. Good at driving and putting his defender on the defensive and making a pass to a designated big guy, or a basic kick out. He also has that pseudo point-forward that Goodwin brought. He needs other ball handlers around him to help, but I think he showed enough last year that TF will try to build upon it.

Love Fred, but from what I've seen over the past few seasons is that he tends to panic when he is pressured, and can't dribble through the pressure, or find the open man.  Tend to think he will not be the solution ..... IMO.

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2 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Love Fred, but from what I've seen over the past few seasons is that he tends to panic when he is pressured, and can't dribble through the pressure, or find the open man.  Tend to think he will not be the solution ..... IMO.

It was a scary sight to see Thatch handle the ball in the non-con last year. A turnover waiting to happen. But he really improved in conference season in all facets, including his playmaking.

I’m sure y’all remember this:

I’m confident he can continue making strides in that department and be a part of the Yuri back-up committee.

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5 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

It was a scary sight to see Thatch handle the ball in the non-con last year. A turnover waiting to happen. But he really improved in conference season in all facets, including his playmaking.

I’m sure y’all remember this:

I’m confident he can continue making strides in that department and be a part of the Yuri back-up committee.

I don't think anyone doubts he can be part of the backup committee, but he shouldn't be the leader of that committee. That would surely worry me. 

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2 hours ago, wgstl said:

Why does it always seem like people think if yuri(any player not just yuri) goes down, its for a long period of time. Its more likely that if Yuri(or any player) gets injured its for a short amount of games more so than a long stint.  Everyone keeps saying if yuri gets injured the season is over anyway, what if its middle of the season and he misses 2 games? These are the situations I like to think of when asking do we have someone who can come in and play point that gives us a chance of winning. 

 

One thing that stands out is the argument about the Northern Iowa game last year.  While I see that point, and it showed that Jones - who many think we cant replace this late - isn't capable of manning the point for an entire game, I do think the difference is that team checked out pregame.  

 

 

Jones wasn't good enough. He wouldn't have made a difference if we lose Yuri for any length of time. With Pickett on the roster this year, would Jones have even came? Last year he had a few minutes available even with Yuri healthy. This year when Yuri is healthy, how many minutes would you think are available? I'll say very few. Who is good enough to take minutes from someone already on the roster when Yuri is healthy that we could have gotten? No one wants to be told, you'll play if Yuri goes down. I'm 100% good with who we have on the roster for the limited back up minutes available and wouldn't want to go with a lesser talent than we currently have on the roster just because he's played pg before. 

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I'm up in the air about why we looked so bad in the Northern Iowa game without Yuri.  My debate is over whether or not our guys our incapable of creating offense without Yuri or they are capable, but have become so reliant on Yuri's talent that they cannot just turn it on in one game.  I think I'm landing on the side that our guys are capable, but would have to gel as a team over a period of time without Yuri to be able to do it.  Obviously, we don't want that.  If necessary, guys like Thatch, Thames, Pickett, Parker, Perkins, Hughes could step into the role, but they wouldn't be firing on all cylinders for several games while they get accustomed to the role and their teammates get accustomed to them in the role.

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

Jones wasn't good enough. He wouldn't have made a difference if we lose Yuri for any length of time. With Pickett on the roster this year, would Jones have even came? Last year he had a few minutes available even with Yuri healthy. This year when Yuri is healthy, how many minutes would you think are available? I'll say very few. Who is good enough to take minutes from someone already on the roster when Yuri is healthy that we could have gotten? No one wants to be told, you'll play if Yuri goes down. I'm 100% good with who we have on the roster for the limited back up minutes available and wouldn't want to go with a lesser talent than we currently have on the roster just because he's played pg before. 

if pickett became a suitable point guard option at mi$$ouri, that surprises me.   he did not play point guard at Belleville East.   more times than not he was the power forward that would occasionally step out on the wing to make open shots and he would be on a wing coming down on the fast break at opportunities. 

never once considered him to be a point guard.  

not saying he cant.   a lot can change over 4 years.   and i admittedly havent watched any mi$$ouri games in the last four years he's been there.  so maybe so.  

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16 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

if pickett became a suitable point guard option at mi$$ouri, that surprises me.   he did not play point guard at Belleville East.   more times than not he was the power forward that would occasionally step out on the wing to make open shots and he would be on a wing coming down on the fast break at opportunities. 

never once considered him to be a point guard.  

not saying he cant.   a lot can change over 4 years.   and i admittedly havent watched any mi$$ouri games in the last four years he's been there.  so maybe so.  

I didn’t mean to say he could. I don’t know much about him. My point was anyone we recruited to back up Yuri has to be able to earn minutes when Yuri is healthy also as no one is coming … just in case Yuri is hurt. We are so loaded at the 3 wings/guards that very few if any back up options could actually earn those minutes. 

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I thought I read where Parker played a little at the point in JUCO. And let’s not panic, the Celtics made the finals w/o a PG, and I’m sure Travis is grooming one or three of his wings at the position. 

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1 hour ago, slu72 said:

I thought I read where Parker played a little at the point in JUCO. And let’s not panic, the Celtics made the finals w/o a PG, and I’m sure Travis is grooming one or three of his wings at the position. 

Yeah, but in the NBA there is no pressure at all on the ball-handler until the offense is past mid-court.  Whole different story in college ball.  Very often the point guard is pressured from the inbound.  NBA really is a sucky game IMO.

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

if pickett became a suitable point guard option at mi$$ouri, that surprises me.   he did not play point guard at Belleville East.

He did not. He became a productive player, but almost like more by sheer effort and will vs. skill. He has no skills of a point guard. Definitely much more of a max effort small forward type who in the SEC had the impressive ability to get his shot blocked.

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Thames was a ball handler for Pattonville last year.  He lead the team with 3.7 apg.  He had a season high 7 dimes against Parkway West.  (R. Johnson was second on the team with 3.0 apg.) 

Thames lead the team with 22.0 ppg.  He scored about 1/3 of Pattonville's total team points.  To me, that means he didn't pass very often as he was the #1 option on offense.  If he had additional solid offense options, he likely would have increased his apg significantly.

There is no reason he can't be a part of the ' point guard by committee' this upcoming season.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Thames was a ball handler for Pattonville last year.  He lead the team with 3.7 apg.  He had a season high 7 dimes against Parkway West.  (R. Johnson was second on the team with 3.0 apg.) 

I’ve gone back and forth on this. Ultimately I’ve decided just bc you’re the best overall player, and forced to play point guard bc theirs no one else, doesn’t mean it will translate to college. Doesn’t Pville also have another D1 player on their roster? If so, I’m that conf it’s not terribly difficult to get some good assists with another D1 scorer on the team. 
 

that said I’ve gotta believe with a father with such a strong background, his dad has taught him to be a good CG cause he knows that’s what would give him a leg up at the next level. Hope so! 

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Thames was a ball handler for Pattonville last year.  He lead the team with 3.7 apg.  He had a season high 7 dimes against Parkway West.  (R. Johnson was second on the team with 3.0 apg.) 

Thames lead the team with 22.0 ppg.  He scored about 1/3 of Pattonville's total team points.  To me, that means he didn't pass very often as he was the #1 option on offense.  If he had additional solid offense options, he likely would have increased his apg significantly.

There is no reason he can't be a part of the ' point guard by committee' this upcoming season.

Exactly, Ford described him not as a future star but a future superstar, and people are wringing their hands about him being a competent backup? He’s played AAU ball at the highest level, and is not going to be overwhelmed starting his college career. I still don’t understand the sentiment of bringing in someone with limited ability just because he’s had experience. 

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

I’ve gone back and forth on this. Ultimately I’ve decided just bc you’re the best overall player, and forced to play point guard bc theirs no one else, doesn’t mean it will translate to college. Doesn’t Pville also have another D1 player on their roster? If so, I’m that conf it’s not terribly difficult to get some good assists with another D1 scorer on the team. 
 

Ronnell Johnson is going to Fayetteville State University. He was the only other double digit scorer for Pattonville. DII. 
 

Thames can be part of the committee. 

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