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20 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Sustaining a high level of success would certainly be the point if we are using Xavier as the target. Majerus had built us to that level, but then we couldn't sustain it when the players he recruited and molded were no longer in the program.

the difference i see is that unlike crewsplatt, ford has a roster that has what appears to be quality of players that can move up the roster that seem will replace the class in front of each.   like you said, crewsplatt had nothing once jett, mccall, loe and evans were gone. 

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20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

the difference i see is that unlike crewsplatt, ford has a roster that has what appears to be quality of players that can move up the roster that seem will replace the class in front of each.   like you said, crewsplatt had nothing once jett, mccall, loe and evans were gone. 

Which is what Majerus really had lined up when you look at that three year run. Heck, the run really started in 2009-10 when the team won 20 games, 11-5 in conference play, and made a run in the CBI, but the situation stalled things for a year. He stacked classes which is what we appear to now have lined up. You had a 2012 class that included Conklin and Cassity (and originally Kwamain and Willie), a 2013 class of Kwamain, Cody Ellis, and Remekun, and a 2014 class of Jett, Evans, Loe, and McCall. That's three consecutive classes who were all significant contributors to top 25 teams (you could argue the contributions of Cassity and Remekun obviously). So Ford appears to have a comparable cut at that based on what we know about the soon to be seniors and saw from the 2019 class which has us poised for a big 3 year run. Then you get into maintaining it beyond that group, but hopefully we still have Ford guiding that ship.

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7 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Which is what Majerus really had lined up when you look at that three year run. Heck, the run really started in 2009-10 when the team won 20 games, 11-5 in conference play, and made a run in the CBI, but the situation stalled things for a year. He stacked classes which is what we appear to now have lined up. You had a 2012 class that included Conklin and Cassity (and originally Kwamain and Willie), a 2013 class of Kwamain, Cody Ellis, and Remekun, and a 2014 class of Jett, Evans, Loe, and McCall. That's three consecutive classes who were all significant contributors to top 25 teams (you could argue the contributions of Cassity and Remekun obviously). So Ford appears to have a comparable cut at that based on what we know about the soon to be seniors and saw from the 2019 class which has us poised for a big 3 year run. Then you get into maintaining it beyond that group, but hopefully we still have Ford guiding that ship.

well we also had a tremendous drop off in the captain of the ship.   no doubt rickma was a basketball genius.  crewsplat was an azz.  

ford is no rickma basketball wise but he also is far above crewsplatt AND he is the best recruiter imo in my billiken fandom (since 1978)

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1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

Sustaining a high level of success would certainly be the point if we are using Xavier as the target. Majerus had built us to that level, but then we couldn't sustain it when the players he recruited and molded were no longer in the program. But that was three straight years of Xavier level success with 25+ win seasons (2012-2014), conference regular season championships (2013 and 2014), a conference tournament championship (2013), NCAA tournament appearances (2012-2014), tournament wins (2012-2014), and ranked teams (2013 and 2014 finished in the top 25 and we were also ranked during the previous season). The impressive thing with Xavier has been their ability to sustain that level of success throughout the years and throughout core groups of players and coaching changes. The interesting thing to me is that maybe we can get Ford to be our Mark Few in maybe he will decide to ride out the next 15 years winning at a high level here in St. Louis. Why not become a legend here in St. Louis, Coach Ford?!?!

I cannot praise Ford and the coaching staff enough, but praise should also be given to those supporting the program financially (obviously Chaifetz, but many others as well) to where the facilities and support around the program sets us up to win. I know some of those folks post or read this board, so kudos to you all as well.

And while we are giving praise, I think we (as in billikens.com) deserve a lot of praise as well. Someone will have to fill in why, but I think we certainly deserve it.

Lets Go GIFs | Tenor

-that's 3 years, X has had 30 (27 out of the last 34 tournies), that's a start for us

 

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54 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

well we also had a tremendous drop off in the captain of the ship.   no doubt rickma was a basketball genius.  crewsplat was an azz.  

ford is no rickma basketball wise but he also is far above crewsplatt AND he is the best recruiter imo in my billiken fandom (since 1978)

Agreed. Up until now I felt Grawer/Winfield were the best recruiters of local talent....they were ultimately done in by West Pine Gym limitations, the Upchurch fiasco and Ryan Smith’s knee, but they saved Billiken basketball.

Its great to see Ford & Co. make a statement and back it up, this the city’s team again. Fooodgates opened the day JGood committed.

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13 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-that's 3 years, X has had 30 (27 out of the last 34 tournies), that's a start for us

 

Agreed which was my point. Hitting the level of success as Xavier for a few years is something we have done in the past, but to get on that level you have to sustain it like they have year after year and thru core groups of players and coaches.

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The key to Coach Majerus chaining multiple classes was maintaining multiple pipelines.  The Australian and Chicago pipelines kept the cupboard full.  When Majerus got sick, he understandably wasn't as active in recruiting and the cupboard got extremely bare.  

Coach Ford and company have brought in roughly as much talent via one AAU team as the old Australian and Chicago pipelines combined.  They've managed to supplement that local success with one-offs from a number of states.  I think the only thing that's stopping them from turning a one-off like New York or Chicago to a bonafide pipeline is a Sweet 16 run in the tournament.  They've put the program in the best possible position to make that run happen.  That's really all you can ask.

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7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The key to Coach Majerus chaining multiple classes was maintaining multiple pipelines.  The Australian and Chicago pipelines kept the cupboard full.  When Majerus got sick, he understandably wasn't as active in recruiting and the cupboard got extremely bare.  

Coach Ford and company have brought in roughly as much talent via one AAU team as the old Australian and Chicago pipelines combined.  They've managed to supplement that local success with one-offs from a number of states.  I think the only thing that's stopping them from turning a one-off like New York or Chicago to a bonafide pipeline is a Sweet 16 run in the tournament.  They've put the program in the best possible position to make that run happen.  That's really all you can ask.

Adding on to your point, the key to multiple pipelines is having multiple assistant coaches who can recruit. If you look to our current roster and recruits, you can point to players who were recruited by each of Tate, Macon, Bailey and now Stuen. If you go back to the Majerus/Crews teams, we had multiple assistants who never offered evidence that they could land A-10 caliber players. Recruiting at SLU’s level (i.e., not a power conference with NCAA expectations) is ruthless, and the best staffs are relentless. The biggest difference between this staff and previous staffs is I don't get as bothered when we lose a kid, because we always have so many irons in the fire, which is a testament to having a full staff oriented towards recruiting. 

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24 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Agreed which was my point. Hitting the level of success as Xavier for a few years is something we have done in the past, but to get on that level you have to sustain it like they have year after year and thru core groups of players and coaches.

-actually we don't agree, I don't see hitting the level of success as X as a two or three year spurt of just making the tourney, it is the consistency or sustainability for now 30-plus years of making the tourney and getting to the second weekend and beyond that is X level success, we are on our way but several hurdles to clear for my definition 

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28 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-actually we don't agree, I don't see hitting the level of success as X as a two or three year spurt of just making the tourney, it is the consistency or sustainability for now 30-plus years of making the tourney and getting to the second weekend and beyond that is X level success, we are on our way but several hurdles to clear for my definition 

2nd weekend is Sweet 16, beyond would be Final 4. Xavier has yet to appear in a Final 4, but has appeared in 8 Sweet 16's.

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33 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-actually we don't agree, I don't see hitting the level of success as X as a two or three year spurt of just making the tourney, it is the consistency or sustainability for now 30-plus years of making the tourney and getting to the second weekend and beyond that is X level success, we are on our way but several hurdles to clear for my definition 

Agreed.  Obviously we're not going to achieve Xavier's current reputation even after a five-year run. Rather we would resemble what Xavier WAS back in the early 2000s.

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10 hours ago, kshoe said:

This is the biggest part of it. St. Louis largely ignores the NBA because it doesn't have a team and doesn't have a nearby team to call for. If either of those things weren't true people would love it and you wouldn't hear comments about how it's boring, they don't play defense, etc. It's all about having a team to call for.

The NBA would thrive in STL no doubt in my mind.  The city completely put their arms around and embraced the Battlehawks and they’d be no different with professional basketball.  I grew up in STL and now live in Chicago, but the passion and loyalty of STL sports fans is one of the great things we can say of our city.

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4 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

Which is what Majerus really had lined up when you look at that three year run. Heck, the run really started in 2009-10 when the team won 20 games, 11-5 in conference play, and made a run in the CBI, but the situation stalled things for a year. He stacked classes which is what we appear to now have lined up. You had a 2012 class that included Conklin and Cassity (and originally Kwamain and Willie), a 2013 class of Kwamain, Cody Ellis, and Remekun, and a 2014 class of Jett, Evans, Loe, and McCall. That's three consecutive classes who were all significant contributors to top 25 teams (you could argue the contributions of Cassity and Remekun obviously). So Ford appears to have a comparable cut at that based on what we know about the soon to be seniors and saw from the 2019 class which has us poised for a big 3 year run. Then you get into maintaining it beyond that group, but hopefully we still have Ford guiding that ship.

It still kills me to think what the 2011-2012 team would’ve done with Willie Reed 

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The thing Xavier has that I want for the Bills is casual NCAA fan recognition.

The 50 year old in Idaho who watches a few regular season games a year and the NCAA tournament knows Xavier most likely has a good team. 

When a college basketball fan is flipping the channels on a Tuesday in December he will stop on a Xavier game because he knows it will most likely be a good game.

Thats what I want for the Bills and that’s what Ford is building.

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1 hour ago, Fraz42 said:

The NBA would thrive in STL no doubt in my mind.  The city completely put their arms around and embraced the Battlehawks and they’d be no different with professional basketball.  I grew up in STL and now live in Chicago, but the passion and loyalty of STL sports fans is one of the great things we can say of our city.

Big difference in 4 home games at $30 a pop and 41 home games at $100 a game. 

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4 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-actually we don't agree, I don't see hitting the level of success as X as a two or three year spurt of just making the tourney, it is the consistency or sustainability for now 30-plus years of making the tourney and getting to the second weekend and beyond that is X level success, we are on our way but several hurdles to clear for my definition 

Ok, it’s getting lost in translation then, I agree and was trying to say the same thing which was my point. I was responding to a post that said this about us getting to the level of Xavier: “Starting with next season, Coach Ford has us there.  Now, sustaining it is the issue, but so far it's looking good.” My point is that if you are targeting Xavier, sustaining success is what makes them special and separates them from most programs in the country. Having one good season or even three good seasons doesn’t put you on that level and heck we did that for three seasons, but couldn’t sustain it.

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5 hours ago, VeniceMenace said:

Agreed. Up until now I felt Grawer/Winfield were the best recruiters of local talent....they were ultimately done in by West Pine Gym limitations, the Upchurch fiasco and Ryan Smith’s knee, but they saved Billiken basketball.

Its great to see Ford & Co. make a statement and back it up, this the city’s team again. Fooodgates opened the day JGood committed.

Ryan Grant.  Grawer also recruited a big in that class by the name of Brian Smith.  (It was Grant who had bad knees — worse than Welmer's bad feet.)

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Two comments: one:

1.  Speaking of the best local AAU recruiting classes, how about Larry Hughes Justin Tatum and Matt Baniak from the AAU Eagles.  Throw in Chris Heinrich (out of state) and I would say that might be the best recruiting class at SLU.

2.  Too much criticism for RM recruiting and him being sick. Like all head coaches, RM sold playing time. Bigs assumed Willie Reed would stay and play - he didnt. Situation was devastating. Mitchell, Ellis and Remekun were underclassmen. But the youth of the class of Loe, Evans, Jett and McCall did more to scare away recruits than RM’s illness.

 

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12 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

Ok, it’s getting lost in translation then, I agree and was trying to say the same thing which was my point. I was responding to a post that said this about us getting to the level of Xavier: “Starting with next season, Coach Ford has us there.  Now, sustaining it is the issue, but so far it's looking good.” My point is that if you are targeting Xavier, sustaining success is what makes them special and separates them from most programs in the country. Having one good season or even three good seasons doesn’t put you on that level and heck we did that for three seasons, but couldn’t sustain it.

I think we're all saying the same thing or close to the same thing.  My point was that we are at their level (one year level) beginning next year.  The next challenge is to sustain that level.  I don't think it is reasonable to expect being in the top 10 every year like Gonzaga.  Next year, we are a top 40 team, like Xavier.  We won't have their level of success until we do it for about 8-10 years straight.  But for now, we are on par with them.

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1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

I think we're all saying the same thing or close to the same thing.  My point was that we are at their level (one year level) beginning next year.  The next challenge is to sustain that level.  I don't think it is reasonable to expect being in the top 10 every year like Gonzaga.  Next year, we are a top 40 team, like Xavier.  We won't have their level of success until we do it for about 8-10 years straight.  But for now, we are on par with them.

Agreed. Speaking of Xavier, there were some fun games against them during the Majerus era with some really good players in those games.

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