GDT: Duquesne, Act II

[glazedandconfused]

3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

The call wasn't that French made contact it was that his feet were too fair apart.

Gotcha, on top of that he made contact with the defender and was moving still. It was an illegal screen was my point, not a phatom call.

[billikenfan05]

4 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

Gotcha, on top of that he made contact with the defender and was moving still. It was an illegal screen was my point, not a phatom call.

It wasn't a phantom call just a ridiculous one. With the amount of moving and illegal screens that weren't being called the other way. The defender also sold it by flopping like a fish out of water.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, glazedandconfused said:

It wasn't a phantom call on French for the moving screen. The defender clearly tripped on french's right foot. It was called offensive because french was still shuffling his feet right before the defender tripped on him. That's on the ball-handler to wait until French is fully set. 

The moving screen call on Bell was worse. 

I've maybe been the main person pointing out the moving screens this year not being called. We do it quite a bit ourselves. The one on French was clearly correct, the one on Bell was wrong. Bell set the screen while moving right to left, it was a poorly set screen and I don't think he ever even got completely set. There was contact, however the contact occurred as Bell moved out of the screen to his right and the defender moved with him not towards the ball handler. In effect his movement made him guarding Bell not getting screened from the ball handler. Therefore it is not a moving screen. 

I want to make note I may be getting Bell and French wrong in the 2 scenarios. I rewound and watched the play twice that I'm saying was Bell and took note of both plays but as I type this I'm questioning my memory on which was Bell and which one was French. 

[SLU_Nick]

Not sure where to put this....but I am fully prepared for the refs to protect Dayton at all costs on Saturday.  That said, they probably wont need it.  

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

I could do without all these moving screens being called on SLU, when Obi Toppin sets moving screens repeatedly without being called.

The A10 refs blow too many whistles, disrupt the flow of the game.  Let the players play.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I'm likely attending Pacific (UOP) at USF-CA tonight in the WCC.

It's almost like a completely different game in the WCC than in the A10.  The WCC is up and down, up tempo, not these half court rugby matches in the A10.  Most teams in the WCC play man to man defense.  The zones get torched.  Most teams have good shooters.  It's not like defense is not played.  Rather the Offenses are better than the Defenses.

Try it, you'd like it.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Why do refs call offensive fouls on "moving screens" when there is no contact?  Is that really a foul?  These A10 refs love to call fouls on SLU on moving screens, clearly pass on Dayton's Obi Toppin, who could have fouled out of the earlier game vs. SLU on moving screens alone.

Selective enforcement, double standard ...

No contact no foul. If this wasn't true there would literally be a moving screen on 90% of the plays in basketball. When teams run that weave and the player moves left to right for example and his teammate moves in the opposite direction towards him, he almost always gets in the way of the defensive player guarding the ball handler or the ball handler hands it off and then obstructs the person defending the player receiving the hand off. Many times this actually frees the person receiving the handoff/pass. 

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said:

The call wasn't that French made contact it was that his feet were too fair apart.

I'd like to see that play again as your feet have to be pretty wide for that to be called. Your feet are allowed and actually need to be slightly wider than your frame to give you a strong base. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

14 hours ago, White Pelican said:

Some thoughts, in no particular order:

We do not match up well against Duquesne and I think they are a better team than the consensus on here has been giving them credit for. I think they've proved they're better than us.

This team does not have enough people that can shoot a basketball. Every team that comes in here seems to shoot the lights out. We...do not.

I've become numb to the quality of officiating we've come to expect in the A-10 but tonight was wretched. I never appreciated how good we had it in the Great Midwest/Conf USA days until we joined the A10. Did I mention, tonight was wretched?

I really hope to never see Hightower at point guard again. Ever.

To be fair, without Hightower the Bills lose the game against La Salle.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Another question:  What happened to the flop as an area of emphasis?  That Duquesne guy acted like he had been shot, obvious embellishment.

I know about the warnings given for flops.  What happened to a warning to the Duke on French's offensive foul re the screen?  

Why ask me - you asked about the moving screen foul and I responded to your question.  Perhaps you should address your question about the flop to the A10

[bauman]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered earlier in this thread but I really don't want to wade through 22 pages to see.  There were a number of young-highschool age guys sitting in the recruits section behind the Billiken bench.  Were any of them (not including AL) current recruits?

[billikenfan05]

16 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I'd like to see that play again as your feet have to be pretty wide for that to be called. Your feet are allowed and actually need to be slightly wider than your frame to give you a strong base. 

I was sitting right there. And watched the ref make the motion 

[slufanskip]

Just now, billikenfan05 said:

I was sitting right there. And watched the ref make the motion 

I'm not questioning you. I'd just like to see it again as it's almost never called. Did he move his leg out or just set his base too wide? 

[billikenfan05]

24 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I'm not questioning you. I'd just like to see it again as it's almost never called. Did he move his leg out or just set his base too wide? 

I don’t think either tbh. He got it called because the defender ran into his leg and acted out knee to knee 

[jimbofive]

3 hours ago, Littlebill said:

I did like what French did last night a couple times - just jump higher than everyone else and dunk it

fuoking right, doggie.  that under the rim, no step, muscle up two feet two hander he threw down brought me back into the game.  played with heart last night.  i mean he always does, but he brought the ruckus a few times for sure.

[slufanskip]

6 hours ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Agreed. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he rarely beats his defender off the dribble and most of his shots, even at the elbow, are contested. I love J Good and appreciate his aggressiveness but he attempts 3-5 too many drives to the rim each game.  With the lack of "blow by" quickness and speed, he has to use his strength to  muscle his way to the basket which often results in wild shots or attempts at layups. Finesse and touch is the key under the basket but when you're being guarded the entire way to the rim that becomes difficult to achieve.   With the exception of Perkins, it seems this entire team has a really difficult time finishing within 3 feet of the rim. Doesn't help that teams are packing it in against SLU.

3-5 too many drives a game?  That would be between 69 and 115 bad drives this year. Seriously? Does he get a shot up on these drives? Turnovers? Look JGood sometimes forces things but throwing out crazy numbers that just isn't correct feeds into the false belief some on here have (apparently you're one of them) that he's just completely out of control. 

He's had 66 t/o's on the year and made 125/252 from 2 point range. 127 misses plus 66 to/s 193 possible drives that missed. That's of course assuming all his missed 2 point shots are drives. More realistic though probably still high, lets say in actuality half of his missed 2 point shots and t/o's are from drives, that's only 97. And you think he's had 66-115 bad drives? 

This exaggeration of JGood's out of control play drives me nuts

[MichaelC]

4 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

To be fair, without Hightower the Bills lose the game against La Salle.

Yeah and more importantly in a game in which your starting point guard was thoroughly outplayed (IMO) and your starting 2 guard was a ghost, I would say the guys at the end of the bench was the least of the problems. 

[Cowboy]

-CFord is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, including with me, the guys he had in the game weren't getting it done, when Joshua entered the game we were down 12, when he left we were down 10, I agree with trying something different

[Slu let the dogs out?]

15 hours ago, slufanskip said:

3-5 too many drives a game?  That would be between 69 and 115 bad drives this year. Seriously? Does he get a shot up on these drives? Turnovers? Look JGood sometimes forces things but throwing out crazy numbers that just isn't correct feeds into the false belief some on here have (apparently you're one of them) that he's just completely out of control. 

He's had 66 t/o's on the year and made 125/252 from 2 point range. 127 misses plus 66 to/s 193 possible drives that missed. That's of course assuming all his missed 2 point shots are drives. More realistic though probably still high, lets say in actuality half of his missed 2 point shots and t/o's are from drives, that's only 97. And you think he's had 66-115 bad drives? 

This exaggeration of JGood's out of control play drives me nuts

Yes, seriously, 3-5 a game. Okay, 5 is probably high. 3? I stand by that number based on the fact that I've watched almost every minute of SLU basketball this year. I can recall 3 from Wednesday alone. 2 were  rejected/hit out of bounds and 1 was a horrendous shot. Is a blocked shot or a horrible shot considered a turnover? Did you not watch the game on Wednesday? This happens every game. He dribbles into areas with more than one defender present and forces shots.

 

[slufanskip]

13 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Yes, seriously, 3-5 a game. Okay, 5 is probably high. 3? I stand by that number based on the fact that I've watched almost every minute of SLU basketball this year. I can recall 3 from Wednesday alone. 2 were  rejected/hit out of bounds and 1 was a horrendous shot. Is a blocked shot or a horrible shot considered a turnover? Did you not watch the game on Wednesday? This happens every game. He dribbles into areas with more than one defender present and forces shots.

A blocked shot is a shot attempt. By your calculations. So even using 3 a game it's 69 bad drives and that's not just drives where he misses, that's drives he shouldn't have even attempted. . That would mean 35% of his missed shots/turnovers were due to bad drives. 

If half ended up turnovers it would mean over 50% of his turnovers are a result of him forcing a drive he never should have even attempted. 

So since you've watched almost every minute, I'm curious about (just an estimate) how many of those 69 bad drives ended up in a t/o and how many in a missed/blocked shot? 

It's clear we are watching the same game but seeing different things. 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

A blocked shot is a shot attempt. By your calculations. So even using 3 a game it's 69 bad drives and that's not just drives where he misses, that's drives he shouldn't have even attempted. . That would mean 35% of his missed shots/turnovers were due to bad drives. 

If half ended up turnovers it would mean over 50% of his turnovers are a result of him forcing a drive he never should have even attempted. 

So since you've watched almost every minute, I'm curious about (just an estimate) how many of those 69 bad drives ended up in a t/o and how many in a missed/blocked shot? 

It's clear we are watching the same game but seeing different things. 

Just going back five games he's 9/20, 1/7, 4/19, 3/12, 5/16 from the field. Taking away 3 point attempts, he's 9/15, 1/5, 3/16, 3/9, and 4/14 from the field. Yes, I believe on average over those 5 games, he's had about 3 drives per game where he forced a shot. I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out an observation. I love Goodwin, couldn't ask for  a better leader. He's a tough, aggressive player and he likes to attack the rim. All I'm saying is that I see, on average, about three drives a game where attacking the rim isn't the best option at that time.

[slufanskip]

3 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Just going back five games he's 9/20, 1/7, 4/19, 3/12, 5/16 from the field. Taking away 3 point attempts, he's 9/15, 1/5, 3/16, 3/9, and 4/14 from the field. Yes, I believe on average over those 5 games, he's had about 3 drives per game where he forced a shot. I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out an observation. I love Goodwin, couldn't ask for  a better leader. He's a tough, aggressive player and he likes to attack the rim. All I'm saying is that I see, on average, about three drives a game where attacking the rim isn't the best option at that time.

That's a different statement than the one I initially disagreed with. You feel he's been pushing it too much the last few games. I'd probably agree. We may disagree on 3 times a game but overall we'd agree. 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

That's a different statement than the one I initially disagreed with. You feel he's been pushing it too much the last few games. I'd probably agree. We may disagree on 3 times a game but overall we'd agree. 

Yeah, sorry, I'm not the best at articulating my points. I love Goodwin and maybe it's mostly been a recent occurrence (I didn't look beyond the past 5 games), but it just feels like he's been forcing way too many shots around the rim. 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Yes, seriously, 3-5 a game. Okay, 5 is probably high. 3? I stand by that number based on the fact that I've watched almost every minute of SLU basketball this year. I can recall 3 from Wednesday alone. 2 were  rejected/hit out of bounds and 1 was a horrendous shot. Is a blocked shot or a horrible shot considered a turnover? Did you not watch the game on Wednesday? This happens every game. He dribbles into areas with more than one defender present and forces shots.

 

In basketball, a turnover occurs when a team loses possession of the ball to the opposing team before a player takes a shot at their team's basket.

[cgeldmacher]

On 2/6/2020 at 12:16 PM, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Agreed. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he rarely beats his defender off the dribble and most of his shots, even at the elbow, are contested. I love J Good and appreciate his aggressiveness but he attempts 3-5 too many drives to the rim each game.  With the lack of "blow by" quickness and speed, he has to use his strength to  muscle his way to the basket which often results in wild shots or attempts at layups. Finesse and touch is the key under the basket but when you're being guarded the entire way to the rim that becomes difficult to achieve.   With the exception of Perkins, it seems this entire team has a really difficult time finishing within 3 feet of the rim. Doesn't help that teams are packing it in against SLU.

I think Goodwin is much better posting up and backing in a smaller defender.  With the other team conditioned to double French, Goodwin rarely gets doubled when this happens.  I'd rather see that more than driving to the basket with not enough room and no plan.