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Sheltiedave

Five observations from the Seton Hall woodshed

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1) Last year/this year

Last year we had three dominant fifth year seniors who could impose their will in Bess, Isabell, and Foreman. We had a strong freshman big in Gordon, who held his own in the paint. None of their replacements are anywhere where they were on o, d, or physical presence, and it showed as Hall manhandled us.

2) Bell came with a good game effort, and caught 13 minutes. As he learns, he will start taking offensive rebounds in the paint back up strong. He still cannot make solid rotations on D, so Ford tried unsuccessfully to hide him as the middle man in the 1-3-1 zone, with Thatch/Collins getting stuck on the Hall bigs down low. Ouch.

3) The starting five is very stagnant on offense against a balanced D. Thatch and Jacobs have to kickstart things when there are going to be few offensive boards. Goodwin and French cannot always wear capes.

4) Collins held his own, even with his few out of control turnovers being steals in this game. Hall guards were bumping him almost every play, and a guard was on top of him every time he tried to go north. He never showed temper, he showed discipline. Like all the new guys, a year in the weight room will do him well. I found it interesting that he was hit multiple times harder than French on his first two fouls, but no calls.

5) We got taken to the woodshed, but everyone competed hard, put in max effort, and nary a cheap shot was delivered. We got beaten like a drum, but all the Hall players were helping up French and others in garbage time. Respect won and rendered by both teams.

These games happen with youthful teams. We will be above .500, but we will go through some struggles as we develop.

 

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In a 1-3-1 defense, you usually play the point guard as the bottom one because he has to run the baseline and cover the shooters from the baseline corner.  And in a zone,  defensive rebounding is an issue (as with all zones) so having the big man in the middle of the three is typical.

Lost in all this is the Hall had a decent stable of guards, with about 25 fouls to give knocking Yuri around.  A lot wasn't called but Willard knew knocking Yuri around was in his best interests.

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9 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

1) Last year/this year

Last year we had three dominant fifth year seniors who could impose their will in Bess, Isabell, and Foreman. We had a strong freshman big in Gordon, who held his own in the paint. None of their replacements are anywhere where they were on o, d, or physical presence, and it showed as Hall manhandled us.

2) Bell came with a good game effort, and caught 13 minutes. As he learns, he will start taking offensive rebounds in the paint back up strong. He still cannot make solid rotations on D, so Ford tried unsuccessfully to hide him as the middle man in the 1-3-1 zone, with Thatch/Collins getting stuck on the Hall bigs down low. Ouch.

3) The starting five is very stagnant on offense against a balanced D. Thatch and Jacobs have to kickstart things when there are going to be few offensive boards. Goodwin and French cannot always wear capes.

4) Collins held his own, even with his few out of control turnovers being steals in this game. Hall guards were bumping him almost every play, and a guard was on top of him every time he tried to go north. He never showed temper, he showed discipline. Like all the new guys, a year in the weight room will do him well. I found it interesting that he was hit multiple times harder than French on his first two fouls, but no calls.

5) We got taken to the woodshed, but everyone competed hard, put in max effort, and nary a cheap shot was delivered. We got beaten like a drum, but all the Hall players were helping up French and others in garbage time. Respect won and rendered by both teams.

These games happen with youthful teams. We will be above .500, but we will go through some struggles as we develop.

 

Jimerson needs to be taking Thatch’s minutes as a starter. The starting lineup has only Jacobs as an outside threat.

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10 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

In a 1-3-1 defense, you usually play the point guard as the bottom one because he has to run the baseline and cover the shooters from the baseline corner.  And in a zone,  defensive rebounding is an issue (as with all zones) so having the big man in the middle of the three is typical.

Lost in all this is the Hall had a decent stable of guards, with about 25 fouls to give knocking Yuri around.  A lot wasn't called but Willard knew knocking Yuri around was in his best interests.

Your last sentence is something that bugged me about this game. Powell was not challenged physically while Yuri is manhandled. 

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15 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

Your last sentence is something that bugged me about this game. Powell was not challenged physically while Yuri is manhandled. 

This is very true.  Goodwin should've tried to muscle Powell some. Like Bess last year.

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4 minutes ago, mrjoelabs said:

This is very true.  Goodwin should've tried to muscle Powell some. Like Bess last year.

Powell was only 6 of 18, what really hurt was fouling him twice while he was shooting a three.

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9 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Powell was only 6 of 18, what really hurt was fouling him twice while he was shooting a three.

He baited Yuri excellently on those. Those were freshmen mistakes. Yuri’ll get better about not falling for it with more experience 

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3 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

He baited Yuri excellently on those. Those were freshmen mistakes. Yuri’ll get better about not falling for it with more experience 

Sorry, I’m the biggest Yuri fan here, but that was just poor fundamentals, you can’t leave your feet early when your opponent is 25 feet from the basket. Also, Jacobs was the one guilty of the first foul.

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Yuri extended his D effort markedly on Powell, and face guarded him about 30% while his responsibility. Bess was one of the top 3 swing defenders in the country, Thatch and Collins are both pups.

This game broke wide open from the start, with French, Goodwin, and Thatch not being effective early.

NBA type players have outstanding fakes. Poor fundamentals will be three such fouls. Collins learned and made an adjustment.

The elephant in the room is free throw shooting. We are in for another season of tight games, but this year our best players are our worst free throw shooters - last year they were our best.

 

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SH shot 80% from the line we shot 53% . That wasn't the game because we shot more FT's than them. But had we shot 80% we're 9 points closer. Scores 83-75. This poor FT hurts us. It's going to lose games for us. Not this one but who knows u keep chipping away from the line the game get's a little tighter. 

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I know the FT's aren't statistically the difference in the game, but I think the misses and the momentum swings and the choppy-style of play (all of which comes from the bad FT shooting) were the difference in the game

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1 hour ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Jimerson needs to be taking Thatch’s minutes as a starter. The starting lineup has only Jacobs as an outside threat.

Ford said Thatch was the best 3-point shooter during the summer.  

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I could hear Powell talking a lot during the game.  He was in JG’s ear telling him you know you can’t guard me with a freshman.  He was talking a lot to YC.  I was impressed with Yuri never loosing his cool.  

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The fact that Yuri was on Powell so much says a lot about what Travis thinks of him as a defender. 
 

High praise for a youngster to get that assignment. 

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16 minutes ago, Slowry said:

I could hear Powell talking a lot during the game.  He was in JG’s ear telling him you know you can’t guard me with a freshman.  He was talking a lot to YC.  I was impressed with Yuri never loosing his cool.  

Agree with those who complimented Yuri’s mentality. He wasn’t always effective, but he looked confident throughout the game.

While were on the (limited) positives, I was impressed with Perkins’ aggressiveness. Thought he showed a different tear. If he can defend and rebound enough I think he’s a more effective option than Hankton when French is out there.

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Seton Hall came out playing super physical D against us.  They did their homework and knew not to be afraid to put us on the line.  They had enough bodies to not be worried about foul trouble.  Smart teams are going to play that way against us unless we show the ability to knock down FTs.  I’m not sure how many teams can make it work like Seton Hall did though.  Fortunately our worst FTs shooters are mostly our toughest players who can handle the physicality.

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1 hour ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Sorry, I’m the biggest Yuri fan here, but that was just poor fundamentals, you can’t leave your feet early when your opponent is 25 feet from the basket. Also, Jacobs was the one guilty of the first foul.

One of those it's a complete farce that it's a foul. Leaving your feet isn't the problem (as far as fouling) if you go straight up. You have the right to go up and come back down. Yuri did get up but Powell leaned in and Yuri came down against him. This is almost always called a foul but it shouldn't be if the defender doesn't jump into him. On this one Powell just leaned in and is the one that actually initiated contact while Yuri was in a legal defensive position. 

Also as far as fouls are concerned twice a SH big had their hand on French's shoulder and used it to jump and knock a rebound out and French gets called for I'm not sure what. 

I'm not saying the entire game was called poorly or it made a difference. However, their ranking seem to get them extra respect

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1 hour ago, Bills_06 said:

Ford said Thatch was the best 3-point shooter during the summer.  

Ford ...uh.... extends the truth 

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The more I think about this game, the better I feel about it (crazy? perhaps). 

SLU is a young, inexperienced team. While a win may have been massive if SLU is a bubble team come March, I think the experience of a sold out crowd against a top 15 team will prove to be valuable going forward. Nerves got the best of the bills early, and if you get rid of a shaky (at best) first 8 minutes, SHU only outscored SLU 65-63. This doesn't account for garbage time, but with how ugly we all think the Bills were, it's important to see that we stuck around once we settled in.

Three point defense absolutely needs to improve. Every time we would go on a mini run, get the crowd into it, and get into striking distance, we would give up a dagger three. Those are killer. Yuri needs some confidence in shooting. SHU saw that he was looking to pass all night, played him physical, and forced turnovers off passes while lanes to the basket were open. 

I have some more thoughts, but I'll leave it at this. We just saw a National POY candidate and a top 15 team play at Chaifetz in front of an electric crowd. It was awesome. This Seton Hall team could go very, very far. They are lights out shooters and have two seven-foot rim protectors. I love this Billiken team, and the loss really hurt, but today was a great day.

 

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7 hours ago, slufanskip said:

One of those it's a complete farce that it's a foul. Leaving your feet isn't the problem (as far as fouling) if you go straight up. You have the right to go up and come back down. Yuri did get up but Powell leaned in and Yuri came down against him. This is almost always called a foul but it shouldn't be if the defender doesn't jump into him. On this one Powell just leaned in and is the one that actually initiated contact while Yuri was in a legal defensive position. 

Also as far as fouls are concerned twice a SH big had their hand on French's shoulder and used it to jump and knock a rebound out and French gets called for I'm not sure what. 

I'm not saying the entire game was called poorly or it made a difference. However, their ranking seem to get them extra respect

This. Yuri didn’t foul him on that 3.

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As someone above said, the missed FT's are momentum killers. At one point we were 8 down and missed 2 FTs that could have cut it 6. SH comes down scores we're down by double digits again. I don't have an answer to this problem but it's going to bite us over and over. Give Yuri a break, he's playing with both thumbs wrapped. 

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18 minutes ago, slu72 said:

As someone above said, the missed FT's are momentum killers. At one point we were 8 down and missed 2 FTs that could have cut it 6. SH comes down scores we're down by double digits again. I don't have an answer to this problem but it's going to bite us over and over. Give Yuri a break, he's playing with both thumbs wrapped. 

Agree it’s more about momentum.  If Bell and Has hit 2 of 4 to start the game, we’re off the snide and maybe settle down a little quicker. Missing 4 straight and getting down 10-0 only compounded the problem w/nerves. 

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Yesterday was the place to be in st louis. Wish we had a more competitive score. Better free throw % would have done it. Hope it did not scare the new folks away. Colton parayko was there! 

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