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mrjoelabs

What An Opener

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The only thing I still deeply worry about, and maybe more than others, is if french gets in foul trouble.  Hankton at the 5 was a serious liability, and he was guarding another 4 when he was at the 5.  Bell could give you a few minutes,  but the offense cant do much when hes in, at least yet.  In a game where french picks up 2 even 3 first half fouls, I just dont think we can hold up against a team with an actual serviceable big.   If Goodwin or thatch goes out, we have body's who can come in and still score. absolutely not so for the bigs. 

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7 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

I think our 3 point D or lack thereof in the second half is attributable to a couple of things.

A big reason I think, when you press a lot,  it can be harder to guard the 3 because your defense is sorta scrambling back.  It can cause a lot of mis-match/confusion.  the players are still learning how to play this way.   It seems when teams break the press, they have a odd man rush, so typically someone is open. 

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4 minutes ago, wgstl said:

The only thing I still deeply worry about, and maybe more than others, is if french gets in foul trouble.  Hankton at the 5 was a serious liability, and he was guarding another 4 when he was at the 5.  Bell could give you a few minutes,  but the offense cant do much when hes in, at least yet.  In a game where french picks up 2 even 3 first half fouls, I just dont think we can hold up against a team with an actual serviceable big.   If Goodwin or thatch goes out, we have body's who can come in and still score. absolutely not so for the bigs. 

I agree, but this is pretty much the case last year as well right?  I wasn't very comfortable with Foreman as our inside presence on D with French out.  French fouled out 8 times last season in 36 games.  I'd expect with another year of experience that'll be less.  Another thing to consider is that while you want French on the floor of D in a close game, he is a liability on offense because of his poor FT shooting.  Not being able to play him at the end of close games regardless because of FTs mitigates the damage of his potentially fouling out late.

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6 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

I agree, but this is pretty much the case last year as well right?  I wasn't very comfortable with Foreman as our inside presence on D with French out.  French fouled out 8 times last season in 36 games.  I'd expect with another year of experience that'll be less.  Another thing to consider is that while you want French on the floor of D in a close game, he is a liability on offense because of his poor FT shooting.  Not being able to play him at the end of close games regardless because of FTs mitigates the damage of his potentially fouling out late.

Sorta ya, the the talent gap between french and foreman was a ton better than french and bell. 

 

I too think he'll foul out less because hes quicker.   

 

 

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Bottom line for me from last night is that Ford is playing a style very well suited to the roster he put together.

The pressing and trapping, going deeper into his bench, hitting the glass hard at both ends - not since those Majerus rosters (and honestly not the final one, year 2 of Crews, with his system starting) have I felt like the style was exactly how we should be playing. Last night was eye opening in that way.

I'm curious to see how long Ford sticks with this starting lineup. Jacobs doesn't seem to have the killer instinct the rest of these guys do - or at least he doesn't show it. He looked fantastic going to the rim on that layup late in the game. Had a nice 3, too. But he didn't show much before garbage time. Bell looked the part in the lane and didn't look lost or anything. I'm hoping the 4 fouls in 13 minutes thing isn't a sticky issue, though. I imagine his starting position will be matchup-dependent.

We have a Big 3. Goodwin and French are clearly the top 2 guys - as expected, and as they should be - and Thatch is the clear third option. They were the top 3 scorers and top 3 rebounders last night, making up 55% of the former and 51% of the latter. French wasn't content to have a quiet second half after that quiet first. Goodwin looked utterly dominant for stretches, especially in the first half. Thatch only played 19 minutes but his impact was felt every moment he was on the floor. For all the excitement about the newcomers, there's no denying whose team this is.

9 assists for a PG off the bench in his college debut is ridiculous. And only 2 turnovers. Collins looked shaky from the FT line but I loved everything else about his night. He even knocked down both of his (wide open) three pointers, not something he's known for, so he's going to force defenders to respect him everywhere. He's not going to average 9 APG - that would lead the country in just about any season - but man, does he bring something special to the floor.

@NH said it well - Weaver is exactly the GT we needed. He defends, he shoots, he even rebounds his position. Love what he brings.

I like Perkins off the bench. He looks good to me and we don't have anyone else on the roster quite like him. He's got a quick trigger, fearless shooting, but some of that might be nerves as he acclimates to this level and system. None of his shots were bad, he's just clearly still adjusting. Started hitting in the second half.

Jimerson is exactly who I thought he was, except maybe a better defender. He gets to the right spots at both ends. He's got great size. He was 3-5 from 3 - he's not going to shoot 60% every night but what he does in terms of opposing defenses, plus how he'll improve our efficiency from deep (we shot .304 from 3 last season) brings a whole new dynamic to this team.

Not a great night for Hankton. I'm not worried. He's adjusting to an evolving role. I'm not worried about Hargrove, either, for reasons others have discussed. Or Diarra. Ford said he'd go 10-11 deep this season and it was 10 last night.

We are going to have nights that don't go like this, even against teams we should beat handily. I'm fine with that. This season is primarily about building and development. It's going to be a lot of fun, too. I see more buy in and cohesiveness, at least publicly, than I've ever seen from a SLU team. In addition to being fun to watch, they're easy to root for. I'm all in.

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41 minutes ago, ACE said:

Quit trying to stir up sh!t.

Seriously.  Hargrove is a smart kid with ability and a great attitude.  He will be just fine.

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3 hours ago, slu72 said:

A lot to like about tonight. The play of JGood, Has, and Thatch was especially encouraging. I said it after the last game that Has looks a lot more fluid and skilled than last year. The OOP was especially sweet since the A came from you know who (a player I've been particularly high on). Both JGood and Thatch appear to have upped their games as well. Big thing is I don't think any one of them played more than 30 minutes. French only logged 23. So, hats off to the bench. If this team is going to play at this pace all year, they are going to need fresh legs come late Jan thru Feb. Last night the bench gave them the chance for some breathers, and we didn't miss a beat. 

I think Bell should continue to give us the opening minutes. As someone pointed out we don't want Has getting in early foul trouble and be forced to sit out a chunk of time. If teams start off probing the inside, ie taking it towards Has to take him out, let's let Jimmy take the early fouls. 

Could go on about each player but most know who did what so not necessary. Just a great overall team effort that seemed to so effortless for an opener. The only bad was the 3 pt defense, which was not good against KWU either. That's got to be fixed or else teams like Davidson and Richmond will kill us.

Again, recall last year's struggles against these pesky lower mids, it seemed we struggled against all of them and only put one of them away with the ease we handled FGCU tonight. Anybody break a sweat watching this game,  bite your fingernails, or empty the liquor cabinet tonight? 

Great summation. You are the Layla of Yurimania. Your level headedness after facing your ailment in person encourages all of us to carry forward this season. It proves that is something that can be lived with. The games are our antidote and unlike most ailments this has a distinct term of 4 years. 

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No problem with Hargrove not playing - but surprised.   Also, surprised that the walk-on (now twice) has played prior to/instead of Hargrove.   Maybe the messages Ford is conveying to him will have a greater impact by not playing at all rather than playing 3 minutes. Just hope the communications lines remain open.   Early season back up minutes and garbage time in November mean very little compared to playing the way Coach Ford wants/demands.

Also surprised that Bell did not play more minutes than he did.

Also surprised that our starter (Jacobs) was playing during the last 3 minutes of the game/garbage time.

Believe Coach Ford is correct:   he sees 3 top players and then he sees everyone else -- all with different strengths and weaknesses (and depending upon the night) who are all relatively equal.

Whoever executes Coach Ford's 3 point/perimeter defense will play a lot - maybe that is what he sees in Jacobs (as opposed to Jacobs' offensive production)?

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31 minutes ago, BillIkenFan_Dan said:

Official attendance last night was 6,321.

more than last year.  But 900 less than Seattle two years ago. 

 

Valpo should be over 8k.  

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28 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

I believe its "Jimmmerson" until Saturday's game

indeed

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I think Coach Ford doesn't want anyone — himself, Hargrove, or Billikens fans — to start thinking of TJ as a garbage-time player this season.  He expects more from him, as TJ should himself (and we know we expect more from him, as well).  In that case, a "DNP, coach's decision" is better than mop-up time.  When Hargrove is ready to go out and play as the staff envisions, then they'll unleash him.  Until then, none of this mop-up play that makes it appear he's a walk-on or end-of-bench guy.

That's my thought on it.  Plus, it's just one game; too soon to be a trend.

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

The only thing I still deeply worry about, and maybe more than others, is if french gets in foul trouble.  Hankton at the 5 was a serious liability, and he was guarding another 4 when he was at the 5.  Bell could give you a few minutes,  but the offense cant do much when hes in, at least yet.  In a game where french picks up 2 even 3 first half fouls, I just dont think we can hold up against a team with an actual serviceable big.   If Goodwin or thatch goes out, we have body's who can come in and still score. absolutely not so for the bigs. 

i think this is a great post that a lot of us havent thought much about.   as the competition gets tougher, the need for french to be in the game becomes so so important and really having no backup will be exposed.   bell or hankton or diarra or whomever being able to be a good big will become huge.   

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1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

I agree, but this is pretty much the case last year as well right?  I wasn't very comfortable with Foreman as our inside presence on D with French out.  French fouled out 8 times last season in 36 games.  I'd expect with another year of experience that'll be less.  Another thing to consider is that while you want French on the floor of D in a close game, he is a liability on offense because of his poor FT shooting.  Not being able to play him at the end of close games regardless because of FTs mitigates the damage of his potentially fouling out late.

foreman was a lot better and credible than hankton, or the current bell or diarra though.   the need for at least one of the three to emerge as a decent enough big is huge.  we know the day will come when french is out early with fouls in a game.  

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39 minutes ago, wgstl said:

more than last year.  But 900 less than Seattle two years ago. 

 

Valpo should be over 8k.  

Tuesday season opener kinda sucks. I believe the Seattle game was on a Friday night. Coming off of an A10 tourney win,an  NCAA tourney appearance, and several fresh, local faces, I was a bit disappointed in the attendance last night. Even more strange, it seemed that a large portion of the crowd in the 200s didn't show up until well after tip off. We had two large groups behind us get to their seats after the 8 minute tv timeout.

 

I gotta tell ya, attending these SLU basketball games is one of the more enjoyable sporting experiences in St. Louis:

1) Convenient, cheap parking in Compton garage makes for easy arrival and departure

2) alcohol 

3) non-basketball entertainment for the kids if it's family night at the game (daughter loved watching the cheerleaders)

4) a young team with tons of energy and athleticism

5) reasonable ticket prices

Hard part seems to be getting newbies through the door but once inside, there is a great opportunity to create an entirely new generation of Billikens fans given numbers 1-5 above.  Winning definitely cures all but I do believe that these local players drew several curious fans that weren't necessarily SLU fans prior to last night. I heard a handful of times people ask  where Hargrove and Collins were and what were their numbers were.

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2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i think this is a great post that a lot of us havent thought much about.   as the competition gets tougher, the need for french to be in the game becomes so so important and really having no backup will be exposed.   bell or hankton or diarra or whomever being able to be a good big will become huge.   

its probably why we saw hankton at the 5 so much last night, preparing.   But it hasn't looked promising.  Is Diarra that much worse than Hankton? I love Hankton at the 4, probably more than anyone else, but thats it.  Cant be playing that 5.  0 rebounds in 10 minutes. Diarra im sure protects the rim better, and gets you rebounds. 

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4 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Tuesday season opener kinda sucks. I believe the Seattle game was on a Friday night. Coming off of an A10 tourney win,an  NCAA tourney appearance, and several fresh, local faces, I was a bit disappointed in the attendance last night. Even more strange, it seemed that a large portion of the crowd in the 200s didn't show up until well after tip off. We had two large groups get to their seats after the 8 minute tv timeout.

 

I gotta tell ya, attending these SLU basketball games is one of the more enjoyable sporting experiences in St. Louis:

1) Convenient, cheap parking in Compton garage makes for easy arrival and departure

2) alcohol 

3) non-basketball entertainment for the kids if it's family night at the game (daughter loved watching the cheerleaders)

4) a young team with tons of energy and athleticism

5) reasonable ticket prices

Hard part seems to be getting newbies through the door but once inside, there is a great opportunity to create an entirely new generation of Billikens fans given numbers 1-5 above.  Winning definitely cures all but I do believe that these local players drew several curious fans that weren't necessarily SLU fans prior to last night. I heard a handful of times people ask  where Hargrove and Collins were and what were their numbers were.

I used to try and think of excuses for people, but its too hard. 

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4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

foreman was a lot better and credible than hankton, or the current bell or diarra though.   the need for at least one of the three to emerge as a decent enough big is huge.  we know the day will come when french is out early with fouls in a game.  

The inability to land a serviceable grad transfer big is the most glaring weakness on the roster. This is one more reason that it makes a lot of sense to have this team play a heavy dose of press throughout the game.

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1 minute ago, wgstl said:

I used to try and think of excuses for people, but its too hard. 

If you love your hometown, if you love basketball, if you love sports....there really is no excuse not to attend a game.

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23 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

No problem with Hargrove not playing - but surprised.   Also, surprised that the walk-on (now twice) has played prior to/instead of Hargrove.   Maybe the messages Ford is conveying to him will have a greater impact by not playing at all rather than playing 3 minutes. Just hope the communications lines remain open.   Early season back up minutes and garbage time in November mean very little compared to playing the way Coach Ford wants/demands.

Also surprised that Bell did not play more minutes than he did.

Also surprised that our starter (Jacobs) was playing during the last 3 minutes of the game/garbage time.

Believe Coach Ford is correct:   he sees 3 top players and then he sees everyone else -- all with different strengths and weaknesses (and depending upon the night) who are all relatively equal.

Whoever executes Coach Ford's 3 point/perimeter defense will play a lot - maybe that is what he sees in Jacobs (as opposed to Jacobs' offensive production)?

We are in pretty good shape when the "everyone else" includes Perkins, Weaver, Collins and Jimmmerson!  They gave us 8 or 9,  3-point FGs  Love it.  Looking for a JiMMMMerson game soon.

I seriously don't know what some of you were watching last night re Jacobs, who I have been a fan of since he was being recruited.  His seeming lack of effort gave up at least 4 and likely 5, 3 point shots (all made).  In fact Ford went nuts in the first half and pulled him after failing to contest a three.  Because I have always liked him, I focused in on him and saw no more than 50% of the hustle and desire displayed by most of the other 1,2,3 position players.  He did step it up on a few occasions throughout the game, but not nearly enough.  As a fan of DJ, I am hoping through film study and coaching that he starts to display the talent that I think he has.  Hopefully, the 7 points he scored in garbage time will spur him on.  I would love to see him succeed.

Regarding the crowd, not bad for a Tuesday night opener, and I hope the student turnout doesn't end up being a one-night thing.  Hopefully, Saturday (6 PM game time) we get a high-7000 fans in the building.  I know the AD offered $5 tickets for FGCU,  which probably helped.  If we want to be big-time basketball we need to have big-time attendance.  I also concur with whoever posted about the crowd leaving early.  Seriously, people stay till the end to give the team its due, and that goes for the student section too.  What could be so important that you need 10 extra minutes on Billiken game nights?

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25 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I think Coach Ford doesn't want anyone — himself, Hargrove, or Billikens fans — to start thinking of TJ as a garbage-time player this season.  He expects more from him, as TJ should himself (and we know we expect more from him, as well).  In that case, a "DNP, coach's decision" is better than mop-up time.  When Hargrove is ready to go out and play as the staff envisions, then they'll unleash him.  Until then, none of this mop-up play that makes it appear he's a walk-on or end-of-bench guy.

That's my thought on it.  Plus, it's just one game; too soon to be a trend.

I like your rationale.

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23 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I think Coach Ford doesn't want anyone — himself, Hargrove, or Billikens fans — to start thinking of TJ as a garbage-time player this season.  He expects more from him, as TJ should himself (and we know we expect more from him, as well).  In that case, a "DNP, coach's decision" is better than mop-up time.  When Hargrove is ready to go out and play as the staff envisions, then they'll unleash him.  Until then, none of this mop-up play that makes it appear he's a walk-on or end-of-bench guy.

That's my thought on it.  Plus, it's just one game; too soon to be a trend.

if we sucked we would be right to be all panties in a bunch (like win Gordon bellied up on us last year) but with how many ballers we appear to have obsessing about him is back burner issue imo. If he is content and we use him little this year he still has 3 more seasons and may well be a star before it's over.

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