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3 minutes ago, wgstl said:

And that seems to be ending

Trinity's big stud, running back Mookie Cooper, a The Ohio State recruit, today announce he is leaving Trinity and enrolling at Pattonville effective immediately.  He likely won't play football this season.

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44 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Agree.

The problem is that he isn’t good enough for the NBA and I don’t think he would last a week on his own in a foreign country.

He has all the tools to be an NBA player. Unfortunately he is a tool. 

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Just now, JMM28 said:

He has all the tools to be an NBA player. Unfortunately he is a tool. 

I don't think he does. Talent to be a very good college player, but I never viewed him as a future NBA player.

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2 minutes ago, ACE said:

I don't think he does. Talent to be a very good college player, but I never viewed him as a future NBA player.

Idk, I really liked what I saw in the small sample size.  No way am I saying he was one and done or even two and done, but he looked like someone I could see in the NBA.  The way he could move at his size, sheesh.  

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I think most called this one last December.  I believe I myself said I never expect to see him on a college court again.  I'll have to see if I can find that.  This is just another example of a young kid gone well astray.  Korleone Yong.  Dontonio Wnfield.  Chris Washburn.  Willie Reed.  The list is endless.  And will always be endless because kids like Gordon just come along constantly and should know better based on all the examples preceding them.  This is why I am fine with these kids going straight to the "D" League.  Even if they expand the one-and-done to two year sof college, these kids of kids should have another option.  I am not the least bit surprised at this ... and I'm pretty sure you all aren't either. 

The bottom line is it is his decision to make.  I don't care how many counselors are chirping in his ear --- he's the one that's got to do it, whatever it is.  The youth excuse may be there but that is just too bad.  One must accept the total sum of the consequences based on the action(s) chosen.  In other words, you should of thought of all that before you did whatever you did.  This guy has apparently had quite a checkered decision-making past.  Where's this surprise really?

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3 minutes ago, ACE said:

I don't think he does. Talent to be a very good college player, but I never viewed him as a future NBA player.

I can see where you're at. I just think he has the physicality to be an NBA guy and has the unrefined skill set that can project to an NBA player. Put Javon Bess's head on Carteare's body and you've got a lottery pick kind of thing. Unfortunately for Carteare, odds are now better that he winds up starring in the St Louis YMCA league until he gets his free membership revoked for fighting 40 year old men. 

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16 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I can see where you're at. I just think he has the physicality to be an NBA guy and has the unrefined skill set that can project to an NBA player. Put Javon Bess's head on Carteare's body and you've got a lottery pick kind of thing. Unfortunately for Carteare, odds are now better that he winds up starring in the St Louis YMCA league until he gets his free membership revoked for fighting 40 year old men. 

His footwork with that body gives him the ability to play at the NBA level. I think Carteare thinks he needs to be top option on offense to showcase himself for the NBA.  That is a big mistake on his part.  If he was ever going to play at that level it would have been based on how he developed on the defensive end.  That footwork gives him the ability (with work) to guard multiple positions at the next level. That footwork is what separates from other slightly undersized bigs.

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None of us are really in a position to say this is a bad or good move for him, but the optics certainly make him appear to be a headcase. I tend to agree with cgeldmacher's take. We knew the kid had some anger and discipline issues in HS.  These issues aren't likely to change w/o some serious introspection on his part, which he's not likely to undertake by himself.  

That tweet he shouted out two weeks ago about being all in at DePaul sounds strangely familiar to his all in for Team Blue tweets last year after the season started. Then bang, he's Gone with the Wind. None of that makes any sense. Get him to a shrink would be my advice. 

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58 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I can see where you're at. I just think he has the physicality to be an NBA guy and has the unrefined skill set that can project to an NBA player. Put Javon Bess's head on Carteare's body and you've got a lottery pick kind of thing. Unfortunately for Carteare, odds are now better that he winds up starring in the St Louis YMCA league until he gets his free membership revoked for fighting 40 year old men. 

i have likely told this story before, but it seems to fit in the debate of "is gordon an nba player or not?"

back in the 90's i got tickets to an nba game in Chicago.   i am not a big nba fan (getting more into it the last few years again due to my enjoyment of stephon curry) so i really wasnt watching on TV let alone live.   But i went and the biggest takeaway i had from the game was that pippen, jordan and rodman were the first ones down the floor both directions every time.   they easily played the hardest defense of anyone on the floor and rebounding from all three was tenacious beyond belief.   

my point is, to be an nba player you need to have that kind of heart and if your desire is  higher than anyone else to go along with your basketball skills you will excel.  

i wouldnt give you a quarter for gordon's heart and guts.  he has been that way since he was a freshman in high school just coasting around the floor waiting for the opportunity to make the big block or thunder dunk.  beyond that, he could be guarded by 6'2" never gonna play past high school players until he got mad.   

that doesnt get you in the nba.  and it appears wont keep you in D1 college basketball either

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There is so much talent in the NBA that if you’re going to have a horrible attitude and discipline issues, you better have the highest ceiling and skill set to back it up. Gordon was not a 1 and done or will be a 2 and done. Coaches and players don’t want a dumbass, jerkoff 19 year old. Age isn’t a factor. Look at the Duke kids. Coach K gets the best, and most humble ones usually. They are well disciplined. 

Gordon is a kid who missed the Bob Knight days  where a coach would whip them into shape. Unfortunately coaches can’t do that anymore and these inner city kids know it from growing up surrounded by teachers who weren’t allowed to do anything. 

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8 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

we all knew it.   we just ignored the obvious due to the nba ready body that the kid possessed.   all this is no surprise.   the only thing that is sad imo is all the time we wasted on this headcase.   we passed on other players that could have helped to take this pot of gold that is going to end up bad.   

i'm with skip.  couldnt care less about gordon and where he ends up.   he did it to himself.  

with you on first part, change some words and it describes many a trophy wife marriage.

Second part nsm, I forever want to know everything about anyone that associated with the team player wise for the most part. I still got Upchurch ??'s. Don't get me started on S 1& 2. Secrecy one of the biggest impediments to progress in the world imo.  

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2 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I wonder when Gordon’s dirt at SLU will be public. 

Anyways tired of the age being an excuse for the kid. Making mistakes is a part of childhood. Not repeating them Is a part of growing up 

What dirt would that be?

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2 hours ago, JMM28 said:

I can see where you're at. I just think he has the physicality to be an NBA guy and has the unrefined skill set that can project to an NBA player. Put Javon Bess's head on Carteare's body and you've got a lottery pick kind of thing. Unfortunately for Carteare, odds are now better that he winds up starring in the St Louis YMCA league until he gets his free membership revoked for fighting 40 year old men. 

There are plenty of guys Gordon's size either more skilled and/or more athletic in the NBA. There are a limited number of spots available each year. I think some people underestimate just how difficult it is to make it. For a player like Gordon, who was not in the Top 50 coming out of high school, the odds were stacked against him making it. Of course there are plenty of examples of guys who were not highly ranked coming out of high school who manage to make it, but usually those guys develop their game during their college career. Gordon was never likely to be that kind of guy. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is going to be receptive to coaching. And as you point out, Gordon is certainly not going to bring much else positive outside of some solid physical characteristics.

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4 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Sorry Old Guy, but my life experience is that guys who were decent and nice in high school and college are still decent and nice.  Guys who were a-holes, are still a-holes years later.  At some point, you can't continue to give passes to unacceptable behavior and poor choices with the "he's young" excuse.

You are entirely  correct, that is, talking from the point of view of a guy that has had a stable life and a stable family and an education that channeled him that way, when he was at the crucial early teen years. You successfully made the transition from a kid to a "decent and nice" guy. Those that associate with good guys and gals remain good guys and gals, and those that associate with scum remain scum. This is a very common view of life from the point of view of someone that enjoyed such a nice, stable life, and that is (rightfully so) pointing his kids in the same direction. That is an admirable thing to do and wish you the best outcome for your family.

However, not all families are the same, and very bad things happen to very good people. In 1961 my family lost all it had, I was 14 at the time, my brother was 12. My brother and I had to be sent to the city to live with my uncle, his wife and their two kids. My uncle had suffered the same fate my father did, but he had found a job in the city. We wound up living in a slum and had to eat in shifts primarily because they only had two sets of plates and dinnerware. We ate scraps, left overs, and went hungry from time to  time. This place contained one table, two  chairs, a nicer chair for my uncle, a tiny black and white TV and enough mattresses box springs and frames for all of us. We were not allowed to watch TV before all homework was done. We were also not allowed to change the channels uncle had set, this is something he did every night, just to fall asleep rapidly. He was generally exhausted by the time he got home every day. We sat on the floor and did homework, my  aunt used one of the two aluminum chairs from the dining table (formica and aluminum of course) and watched whatever my uncle had chosen before falling asleep. I wound up not watching TV at all, the school's library provided books to read, which I preferred. Many nights I would wake up at the sound of one of the kids crying, other nights it was my uncle (and later on my father) waking up screaming with financial nightmares. It was a desperate situation which got a bit better when my aunt found a job for my father, in a different city, and he took it. How can I describe the difference in how I had lived before and was living now? How do I describe torn, tattered pants and shirts mended and re-mended. Who were my friends at school at that time? Well obviously those that you call a-holes, those that had no parents, those that were odds and ends and no one liked. They were not a-holes at all, they were born and raised in the situation I was living in. I assure you that if anyone messed with me, my brother or my cousins they would have a fight in their hands with whoever was around from the family. 

I  also assure you that given my diet at the  time I went from being a chubby, shy kid who loved to read and be alone, to a wiry kid who looked like a sack of  bones and got repeatedly beaten by other a-hole kids. Who can describe this environment, certainly none of the "decent and nice" kids (as you refer to them). How could they understand this environment? They had never experienced anything like it, and avoided us (the destitute a-holes) as the plague. My saving grace was that I liked reading and liked libraries and did well academically. This got me first to college, then to Med School, and then to Harvard, my brother, who  was similar to me academically, wound up an engineer. My two cousins did not do that well, they simply never had enough years of experience (they were significantly  younger at this time) to learn how "decent and nice" people behaved.

Can you conceive the fact that the kids born and raised in that type of environment never have the chance to develop good habits, learn a speech pattern that consist mostly of insults and smack, and were a lot more capable in a fight than in taking tests? Does this make them a-holes? Honestly, it was during that time that I learned who the real a-holes were and continue being.

To some degree I identify with Gordon and what he is going through. I do not think he can get rid, on his own steam, of all the things he learned in his childhood and teenage years. I feel sorry  for him and wish he would be able to shake up the stain of his early life, and a stain it is. I do not know if he can do it or not, and I think his talent may be wasted. I consider this a tragedy of sorts. Why? because he was a guy with enough talent to make it out of the slums and be successful. Most of the kids I knew at that stage in my  life did not have this kind of talent and will continue living their desperate existences.

Now, are you satisfied that you labelled a large number of people as a-holes? It is OK to enjoy privilege, achievement, and status. It is not OK to label kids as a-holes, when you personally (and probably everyone else around you) have no idea of how these kids live and how they adapt to their environment. All the best to you, see you in hell someday.

 

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In fairness to Gordon leaving DePaul, I think going to Europe with this kid would be enough to send anybody over the edge...

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/2/13/16964618/depaul-walk-on-pantelis-xidias-college-basketball-greatest-hype-man

I had predicted Gordon's demise at DePaul would come from beating the crap out of this guy. While there are no reports that is what happened, I wouldn't be surprised if having this goofball around played a part in Gordon bolting that sh!t show.

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Old guy has carried some scars and his time is just a very small sliver of the wounds he had inflicted. People who have never visited earthly hellholes May find little sympathy for those who have.

I hope CAG finds the support he does need to succeed, because if he does find it he has the tools to be a top ten player in the NBA.

Finding his head, and then the drive to achieve, will both need to occur first.

There was no great hidden dirt on CAG, just a total lack of maturity, and little work ethic, in a sport where tons of both are needed to compete, and even more to be a winner.

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3 hours ago, JMM28 said:

I can see where you're at. I just think he has the physicality to be an NBA guy and has the unrefined skill set that can project to an NBA player. Put Javon Bess's head on Carteare's body and you've got a lottery pick kind of thing. Unfortunately for Carteare, odds are now better that he winds up starring in the St Louis YMCA league until he gets his free membership revoked for fighting 40 year old men. 

This.  Gordon has NBA talent and a grade school head. 

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19 minutes ago, Old guy said:

You are entirely  correct, that is, talking from the point of view of a guy that has had a stable life and a stable family and an education that channeled him that way, when he was at the crucial early teen years. You successfully made the transition from a kid to a "decent and nice" guy. Those that associate with good guys and gals remain good guys and gals, and those that associate with scum remain scum. This is a very common view of life from the point of view of someone that enjoyed such a nice, stable life, and that is (rightfully so) pointing his kids in the same direction. That is an admirable thing to do and wish you the best outcome for your family.

However, not all families are the same, and very bad things happen to very good people. In 1961 my family lost all it had, I was 14 at the time, my brother was 12. My brother and I had to be sent to the city to live with my uncle, his wife and their two kids. My uncle had suffered the same fate my father did, but he had found a job in the city. We wound up living in a slum and had to eat in shifts primarily because they only had two sets of plates and dinnerware. We ate scraps, left overs, and went hungry from time to  time. This place contained one table, two  chairs, a nicer chair for my uncle, a tiny black and white TV and enough mattresses box springs and frames for all of us. We were not allowed to watch TV before all homework was done. We were also not allowed to change the channels uncle had set, this is something he did every night, just to fall asleep rapidly. He was generally exhausted by the time he got home every day. We sat on the floor and did homework, my  aunt used one of the two aluminum chairs from the dining table (formica and aluminum of course) and watched whatever my uncle had chosen before falling asleep. I wound up not watching TV at all, the school's library provided books to read, which I preferred. Many nights I would wake up at the sound of one of the kids crying, other nights it was my uncle (and later on my father) waking up screaming with financial nightmares. It was a desperate situation which got a bit better when my aunt found a job for my father, in a different city, and he took it. How can I describe the difference in how I had lived before and was living now? How do I describe torn, tattered pants and shirts mended and re-mended. Who were my friends at school at that time? Well obviously those that you call a-holes, those that had no parents, those that were odds and ends and no one liked. They were not a-holes at all, they were born and raised in the situation I was living in. I assure you that if anyone messed with me, my brother or my cousins they would have a fight in their hands with whoever was around from the family. 

I  also assure you that given my diet at the  time I went from being a chubby, shy kid who loved to read and be alone, to a wiry kid who looked like a sack of  bones and got repeatedly beaten by other a-hole kids. Who can describe this environment, certainly none of the "decent and nice" kids (as you refer to them). How could they understand this environment? They had never experienced anything like it, and avoided us (the destitute a-holes) as the plague. My saving grace was that I liked reading and liked libraries and did well academically. This got me first to college, then to Med School, and then to Harvard, my brother who  was similar to me wound up an engineer. My two cousins did not do that well, they simply never had enough years of experience (they were significantly  younger at this time) to learn how "decent and nice" people behaved.

Can you conceive the fact that the kids born and raised in that type of environment never have the chance to develop good habits, learn a speech pattern that consist mostly of insults and smack, and were a lot more capable in a fight than in taking tests? Does this make them a-holes? Honestly, it was during that time that I learned who the real a-holes were and continue being.

To some degree I identify with Gordon and what he is going through. I do not think he can get rid, on his own steam, of all the things he learned in his childhood and teenage years. I feel sorry  for him and wish he would be able to shake up the stain of his early life. I do not know if he can do it or not, and I think his talent may be wasted. I consider this a tragedy of sorts. Why? because he was a guy with enough talent to make it out of the slums and be successful. Most of the kids I knew at that stage in my  life did not have this kind of talent and will continue living their desperate existences.

Now, are you satisfied that you labelled a large number of people as a-holes? It is OK to enjoy privilege, achievement, and status. It is not OK to label kids as a-holes, when you personally (and probably everyone else around you) have no idea of how these kids live and how they adapt to their environment. All the best to you, see you in hell someday.

 

Thanks for sharing.  I was in a poor, hostile environment for about 2 years in my later teenage years.  I'm convinced that if I would have grown up in that environment I would be be living in poverty or in prison today.

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8 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Old guy has carried some scars and his time is just a very small sliver of the wounds he had inflicted. People who have never visited earthly hellholes May find little sympathy for those who have.

I hope CAG finds the support he does need to succeed, because if he does find it he has the tools to be a top ten player in the NBA.

Finding his head, and then the drive to achieve, will both need to occur first.

There was no great hidden dirt on CAG, just a total lack of maturity, and little work ethic, in a sport where tons of both are needed to compete, and even more to be a winner.

Thank you Sheltiedave, If you pass before I do and get through the pearly gates, please put in a good word for me.

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Thank you 3 star, the experience is unforgettable. Once upon a time, I too feared I  was fated to spend my life cleaning floors or flipping burgers.

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I think this board underestimates how hard it is to make the NBA. What, maybe 30 US college players make a roster. While Gordon could have been a good college player he is not particularly long and didn't appear to have great hops. He didn't have a great outside shot. I don't think he ever had a chance for the NBA but certainly could make a living playing overseas if that life style was ever possible. 

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