bauman Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 When looking at our list of 2019 offers it hit me that we are really targeting NY recruits, which then caused me to wonder about the location / recruiting AC of other ''19 recruits. I focused on 2019 since we are finished/over-committed in the '18 class. It looks fairly clear based on the prior coaching stops of our ACs that Macon has 13 offers out; Bailey has 7 and Tate has 5. Overall we have 39 active offers according to Pistol's summary meaning that 14 offers cannot be clearly assigned to any of the 3 ACs. For example, we have 4 offers out (1 each) to players in Maryland, PA, VA and W Va. While Macon came from Rutgers, Bailey came from Lasalle so either could be the primary recruiter for any of those players. Accordingly I just assigned any unknowns (14 total) to the Staff. Those Stf recruits are from MD, PA, RI, VA, Wis, Bama, W VA, KY, GA, MN and Fl. Note that other than "locals" we have only one offer out to a player who lives west of the Mississippi We had offers out to 8 players that Pistol has removed from our active recruit list. What is pretty clear in looking at those 8 is that once the power 6 conferences go full blown after a recruit the mid-majors-us- have little chance. I suppose that our best chance when going after these top-ranked recruits is to have a geographic or personal relationship such as we have with Liddell,, Collins and others and had with Goodwin and Gordon. Absent those type of connections it is hard playing in the same recruiting sandbox with the P6 schools. Given the above I think it is a real credit to TF and all the ACs that they have been able to land such excellent recruits, including the 3 we lost last year to S2 and its perceived unfairness. My key to success-keep getting at least one of the top 2 locals (Goodwin and Gordon) at least 2 out of every 3 years and fill the other spots with under the radar (between the top 50-150 nationally-see H French) players in our targeted areas while mixing in undervalued players such as Thatch and D Jacobs. As we have successive NCAA tournament years that should get easier, although it will never be easy. Throw in a skilled Grad Transfer every year or two and we will have people begging for tickets to home games! This is the brightest future I have seen in over 40 years of following the Bills, rivaled only by the period following the Majerus hiring. DOC, NextYearBill, Zink and 6 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 towel me baby. nice writeup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, bauman said: When looking at our list of 2019 offers it hit me that we are really targeting NY recruits, which then caused me to wonder about the location / recruiting AC of other ''19 recruits. I focused on 2019 since we are finished/over-committed in the '18 class. It looks fairly clear based on the prior coaching stops of our ACs that Macon has 13 offers out; Bailey has 7 and Tate has 5. Overall we have 39 active offers according to Pistol's summary meaning that 14 offers cannot be clearly assigned to any of the 3 ACs. For example, we have 4 offers out (1 each) to players in Maryland, PA, VA and W Va. While Macon came from Rutgers, Bailey came from Lasalle so either could be the primary recruiter for any of those players. Accordingly I just assigned any unknowns (14 total) to the Staff. Those Stf recruits are from MD, PA, RI, VA, Wis, Bama, W VA, KY, GA, MN and Fl. Note that other than "locals" we have only one offer out to a player who lives west of the Mississippi We had offers out to 8 players that Pistol has removed from our active recruit list. What is pretty clear in looking at those 8 is that once the power 6 conferences go full blown after a recruit the mid-majors-us- have little chance. I suppose that our best chance when going after these top-ranked recruits is to have a geographic or personal relationship such as we have with Liddell,, Collins and others and had with Goodwin and Gordon. Absent those type of connections it is hard playing in the same recruiting sandbox with the P6 schools. Given the above I think it is a real credit to TF and all the ACs that they have been able to land such excellent recruits, including the 3 we lost last year to S2 and its perceived unfairness. My key to success-keep getting at least one of the top 2 locals (Goodwin and Gordon) at least 2 out of every 3 years and fill the other spots with under the radar (between the top 50-150 nationally-see H French) players in our targeted areas while mixing in undervalued players such as Thatch and D Jacobs. As we have successive NCAA tournament years that should get easier, although it will never be easy. Throw in a skilled Grade Transfer every year of two and we will have people begging for tickets to home games! This is the brightest future I have seen in over 40 years of following the Bills, rivaled only by the period following the Majerus hiring. “The recipe” prebilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenbill Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 This is great and all, I just want to know when we're gonna wins some games. AGB91 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 After we start playing the 2018-19 season. William Iken and moytoy12 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, billikenbill said: This is great and all, I just want to know when we're gonna wins some games. November billiken_roy likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 15 hours ago, bauman said: Given the above I think it is a real credit to TF and all the ACs that they have been able to land such excellent recruits, including the 3 we lost last year to S2 and its perceived unfairness. My key to success-keep getting at least one of the top 2 locals (Goodwin and Gordon) at least 2 out of every 3 years and fill the other spots with under the radar (between the top 50-150 nationally-see H French) players in our targeted areas while mixing in undervalued players such as Thatch and D Jacobs. As we have successive NCAA tournament years that should get easier, although it will never be easy. Throw in a skilled Grad Transfer every year or two and we will have people begging for tickets to home games! This is the brightest future I have seen in over 40 years of following the Bills, rivaled only by the period following the Majerus hiring. not that i ever want to be condoning a mi$$ouri trait, but this is exactly what norm stewart did at mi$$ouri. each year sign a star and surround with good role players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 15 hours ago, bauman said: When looking at our list of 2019 offers it hit me that we are really targeting NY recruits, which then caused me to wonder about the location / recruiting AC of other ''19 recruits. I focused on 2019 since we are finished/over-committed in the '18 class. It looks fairly clear based on the prior coaching stops of our ACs that Macon has 13 offers out; Bailey has 7 and Tate has 5. Overall we have 39 active offers according to Pistol's summary meaning that 14 offers cannot be clearly assigned to any of the 3 ACs. For example, we have 4 offers out (1 each) to players in Maryland, PA, VA and W Va. While Macon came from Rutgers, Bailey came from Lasalle so either could be the primary recruiter for any of those players. Accordingly I just assigned any unknowns (14 total) to the Staff. Those Stf recruits are from MD, PA, RI, VA, Wis, Bama, W VA, KY, GA, MN and Fl. Note that other than "locals" we have only one offer out to a player who lives west of the Mississippi We had offers out to 8 players that Pistol has removed from our active recruit list. What is pretty clear in looking at those 8 is that once the power 6 conferences go full blown after a recruit the mid-majors-us- have little chance. I suppose that our best chance when going after these top-ranked recruits is to have a geographic or personal relationship such as we have with Liddell,, Collins and others and had with Goodwin and Gordon. Absent those type of connections it is hard playing in the same recruiting sandbox with the P6 schools. Given the above I think it is a real credit to TF and all the ACs that they have been able to land such excellent recruits, including the 3 we lost last year to S2 and its perceived unfairness. My key to success-keep getting at least one of the top 2 locals (Goodwin and Gordon) at least 2 out of every 3 years and fill the other spots with under the radar (between the top 50-150 nationally-see H French) players in our targeted areas while mixing in undervalued players such as Thatch and D Jacobs. As we have successive NCAA tournament years that should get easier, although it will never be easy. Throw in a skilled Grad Transfer every year or two and we will have people begging for tickets to home games! This is the brightest future I have seen in over 40 years of following the Bills, rivaled only by the period following the Majerus hiring. I think I'd group them like this to get rid of some of those that might seem scattered, because I think they're actually less scattered than it seems: St. Louis Region: Yuri Collins (St. Mary's/Brad Beal Elite), Terrence Hargrove (East St. Louis/Brad Beal Elite), Marcedus Leech* (Poplar Bluff/Brad Beal Elite), E.J. Liddell (Belleville West/Brad Beal Elite), Mario McKinney (Vashon/Brad Beal Elite) Chicago/Illinois: Myles Baker (Whitney Young/Team Rose), DaJuan Gordon (Curie/Team Rose), Malik Hall** (Sunrise Christian/MOKAN Elite), Treyon Johnson (Prosser/Mac Irvin Fire), Chris Payton (Bloomington/Mean Streets), Terrence Shannon, Jr. (Woodstock Academy/Mac Irvin Fire), Kahlil Whitney (Roselle Catholic/Mac Irvin Fire) New York/New England: Tyler Bertram (Vermont Academy/NY Renaissance), James Bouknight (MacDuffie/PSA Cardinals), Kofi Cockburn (Christ the King/NY Renaissance), Dashawn Davis (Our Saviour Lutheran/NY Lightning), Jordan Dingle (Blair Academy/NY Lightning), Joe Girard (Glens Falls/City Rocks), Jalen Lecque (Christ School/NY Renaissance), Chris Ledlum (St. Peter's/NY Jayhawks), Maxwell Lorca-Lloyd (Northfield Mount Hermon/PSA Cardinals), Ismael Massoud (MacDuffie/PSA Cardinals), Lester Quinones (St. Benedict's/New Heights), Joe Toussaint (Cardinal Hayes/PSA Cardinals), Tyson Walker (Christ the King/New Heights) Philly/DC/Baltimore/Virginia: John Bol Ajak (Church Farm School/Team Final), James Bishop (Mount Saint Joseph/Team Thrill), Michael Christmas (Landstown/Team Loaded), Aundre Hyatt*** (Miller School/Boo Williams), Anderson Mirambeaux (Teays Valley Christian/Boo Williams) Minnesota/Wisconsin: Nobal Days (Washington Park/Howard Pulley), Xzavier Jones (Martin Luther/Playground Elite), David Roddy (Breck/Howard Pulley) Southeast: Tony Johnson (The Skill Factory/Georgia Stars), Kira Lewis (Hazel Green/Georgia Stars), Quinn Richey (Mount Pisgah Christian/Game Elite), C.J. Walker (Orlando Christian Prep/E1T1), Jaylin Williams (Brantley County/Game Elite) Kentucky: Michael Moreno (Scott County/Indiana Elite) *Most recent school and AAU program; he is not playing this AAU season and is rumored to no longer be at PBHS. **SLU offered Hall before he transferred to Sunrise. He is from Naperville. ***Bronx native and is reportedly reclassifying back to the 2018 class. Bailey is a Chicago native who also has connections to Philly, New England, and the Southeast. Macon is an NYC guy who has ties throughout the northeast and down the east coast a bit. Tate is a local guy. And Ford has shown he's going to recruit his home state of Kentucky. So I agree that the DC/Virginia area and Minnesota/Wisconsin are a little less clear, but based on 2020 and 2021 activity, we will be continuing to recruit those regions, especially the northern midwest. I didn't include offers to guys who have already eliminated us. 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bauman Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 Pistol, thanks for your input, which as always is right on. I don't know what we would do without you, the Shoe family and The One. Looking at the backgrounds of Bailey and Macon coupled with the recruits we have gotten the past 2 years, it seems like Ford has been able to assemble a diverse group of Assistants with knowledge and ties to what should be our primary recruiting areas. As long as we are going to be in an East Coast dominated conference (A-10 or Big East) we need to recruit the heck out of that area, along with Chicago and the STL Expanded Metro.Just look at our roster this year and last. (Anthony, Foreman, French, Jacobs (I hope), Wiley, Isabell, Thatch, Goodwin and Gordon), and although he never suited up as a Billiken, you might be able to add Graves (Boston College) to that list. While TF might, and should, get most of the credit with regard to closing the deals, his Assistants have provided the players for Ford to close on. I hope we can maintain the current staff for quite a while. They seem like the ideal mix. RiseAndGrind, TheDude, Brighton and 2 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, bauman said: Pistol, thanks for your input, which as always is right on. I don't know what we would do without you, the Shoe family and The One. Looking at the backgrounds of Bailey and Macon coupled with the recruits we have gotten the past 2 years, it seems like Ford has been able to assemble a diverse group of Assistants with knowledge and ties to what should be our primary recruiting areas. As long as we are going to be in an East Coast dominated conference (A-10 or Big East) we need to recruit the heck out of that area, along with Chicago and the STL Expanded Metro.Just look at our roster this year and last. (Anthony, Foreman, French, Jacobs (I hope), Wiley, Isabell, Thatch, Goodwin and Gordon), and although he never suited up as a Billiken, you might be able to add Graves (Boston College) to that list. While TF might, and should, get most of the credit with regard to closing the deals, his Assistants have provided the players for Ford to close on. I hope we can maintain the current staff for quite a while. They seem like the ideal mix. I love what this staff is doing. Based on the offers in the 2019-2021 classes, coupled with recent years and the current roster, it seems like they've decided to focus on about 7-8 regions of the country where they have personal and professional ties, develop relationships with certain AAU and HS programs within those regions, and work them diligently. For a program like ours, this approach makes sense. We don't have national brand name recognition like Duke and Kentucky, who can battle over the same top-40 5-star players every year. Instead, we make our name and program well known to kids coming up in certain areas and certain programs and provide those recruits with a road map for their careers. A kid 2-3 years behind French playing in the PSA Cardinals program can see him playing 30 MPG as a freshman, and (hopefully) expanding his game and winning more games as a sophomore, coming back up to the NE frequently to play road games, and say to himself, "Okay, I can see myself going there." And you also make a good point in that these regions of focus more or less overlay with the A10 map itself, except for Chicago/Wisconsin/Minnesota and the deeper southeast. Brighton likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFord and TRavs Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 If we do well this year the recruiting will much easier. I can’t believe ford did so much with a losing program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, TFord and TRavs said: If we do well this year the recruiting will much easier. I can’t believe ford did so much with a losing program what ford had to offer was playing time. he basically was going to recruit over the entire crewsplatt disaster so everyone immediately believed they were playing. that now becomes a more difficult sell as he only has welmer left from the disaster. time will become earned going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: what ford had to offer was playing time. he basically was going to recruit over the entire crewsplatt disaster so everyone immediately believed they were playing. that now becomes a more difficult sell as he only has welmer left from the disaster. time will become earned going forward. I tend to believe Ford can sell ice to an eskimo. Yes the focus was playing time in past seasons but in the future he'll just pivot to a chance to play with Goodwin and Co. or a chance to be part of a winning culture, packed houses, etc. As long as he is our coach and isn't allowing his name to be mentioned in every job opening out there, I think he'll continue recruiting at this level, no matter what he has to sell the players. Billiken Rich and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFord and TRavs Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, kshoe said: I tend to believe Ford can sell ice to an eskimo. Yes the focus was playing time in past seasons but in the future he'll just pivot to a chance to play with Goodwin and Co. or a chance to be part of a winning culture, packed houses, etc. As long as he is our coach and isn't allowing his name to be mentioned in every job opening out there, I think he'll continue recruiting at this level, no matter what he has to sell the players. Exactly. If pt was the main reason, bad teams would be getting top recruits all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, kshoe said: I tend to believe Ford can sell ice to an eskimo. Yes the focus was playing time in past seasons but in the future he'll just pivot to a chance to play with Goodwin and Co. or a chance to be part of a winning culture, packed houses, etc. As long as he is our coach and isn't allowing his name to be mentioned in every job opening out there, I think he'll continue recruiting at this level, no matter what he has to sell the players. Would like to see Ford get a raise, btw. *oklahoma state fans break out in laughter* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: Would like to see Ford get a raise, btw. *oklahoma state fans break out in laughter* Hope they are choking on their disdain in the next couple years....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: Would like to see Ford get a raise, btw. *oklahoma state fans break out in laughter* Any chance OK St. fans will rue their impatience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prebilliken Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Great post. I'm a diehard and I could not be more hyped for the upcoming season so I'm obviously biased, but I think Ford's approach to recruiting has been beyond reproach. For years Bills fans have bemoaned how little NBA level recruits have noticed the Bills. Whether or not Ford lands every major STL prospect, he has put us in the conversation as long as he is in Mid-Town. No longer is SLU an after though or a prayer, but a contender for every great STL recruit. People thought there was 0 chance we were landing either Goodwin or Gordon, well, we got both. Furthermore, he and his staff have put balanced recruiting approach that is truly national in scope. If you look at the Gonzaga and and xavier's of the world, you'll notice they always feature a balanced roster of star players and dedicated role players, not every player needs to be some heralded Scout of 247sports.com legend. Hell, even Carolina has strayed away from the one-and-done model to mold teams and players that are together for multiple seasons. The wins are coming. I hope this team gels, I hope the Chaifetz is filled again this season, my fondest sports memories are the sold out days of 2012-2014. We were loud and people were scared to play at the Jewel of Midtown. Fill the seats and Ford will keep filling the rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: Any chance OK St. fans will rue their impatience? Not sure. I'm sure he still has his haters but everyone seems to be happier since moving on. Boyton actually seems to be doing pretty good, they got a good year out of Underwood, and Coach Ford still says the nicest things about OK State. I know OK State fans think Ford made too much money, but I am slowly but surely coming to the side that Ford 1) suffered from bad luck and 2) played in a really really good conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 There's also the fact that Ford is a couple years removed from OSU, has more perspective on his time there, and has grown - both by choice and circumstances - as a coach. The guy we saw squeezing 17 wins out of 7 players last season wasn't the same guy who went 0-5 in the Tournament at OSU. He has demonstrated an ability to adapt. I haven't agreed with every decision in every game in two seasons, but for someone I wasn't thrilled about immediately because of my perceptions about his game coaching, he has shown me way more than I expected. Pair that with the increasingly clear, effective recruiting strategy Bauman started this thread by outlining, and there's a clear direction this program can head. Now we just need more institutional commitment. GoSluBills, brianstl, juniorbill76 and 2 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 33 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: Would like to see Ford get a raise, btw. *oklahoma state fans break out in laughter* Word on the streets is that Travis got a bit of a raise after last season. prebilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: Word on the streets is that Travis got a bit of a raise after last season. Nice. Certainly well-deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Regarding the Okie State, it's quite possible the job is not as good as their fans think it is. Underwood bailed after just one year. When Ford was putting together his staff after being hired, I was very encouraged. He had a good plan for recruiting success at THIS job in THIS conference. If you are going to be successful in the A-10, you must have a presence in big cities on the East Coast. That was a formula Xavier had for many years. Also, like Xavier, consistently get some guys ranked nationally in that 75-150 range. Ford hires Macon, an East Coast guy, and Bailey who coached in the A-10 at an East Coast school and as a bonus is from Chicago - which has been an important target market. On top of that, you add a guy in Tate with local connections. And Ford himself has ties in other areas Kentucky, Louisiana and Florida. The recruiting strategy is ambitious, but I think realistic. Let's start a string of NCAA Tourney trips this season and watch it open up even more doors. bauman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: Nice. Certainly well-deserved. I could also have heard wrong or been given wrong info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 hours ago, billikenfan05 said: I could also have heard wrong or been given wrong info. So you are just making it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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