3star_recruit Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said: Everyone is in love with Schertz, but his evidence of success at the D-1 level consists of one and a half seasons and no tournament appearances yet. It's amazing to me how the momentum on this board flows. In the past, guys were absolutely adamant that we get a guy with a history of success in getting to the tournament. Now, because a guy's name is popular, its okay to get a guy with no track record. Let's look at this season. Who is Indiana State's biggest win this season? I don't see one. They have lost to Michigan State (by 10), Alabama (by 22), Drake (by 11), Illinois State (by 13), and Carbondale (by 5). I have to guess their biggest win is over Drake by 8, but this is just a wash since they lost to them by 11 on the road. Is this the track record you guys are all fired up about? I think reality has set in and MBMs realize a proven winner who is in the midst of a winning season is not in the cards. You're either getting an unproven coach who's currently winning or a proven coach who's not. A guy who checks both boxes is in line for a P6 job. So Schertz two weeks ago -- meh. Schertz now -- perfect fit. TheA_Bomb likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilzz Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: Everyone is in love with Schertz, but his evidence of success at the D-1 level consists of one and a half seasons and no tournament appearances yet. It's amazing to me how the momentum on this board flows. In the past, guys were absolutely adamant that we get a guy with a history of success in getting to the tournament. Now, because a guy's name is popular, its okay to get a guy with no track record. Let's look at this season. Who is Indiana State's biggest win this season? I don't see one. They have lost to Michigan State (by 10), Alabama (by 22), Drake (by 11), Illinois State (by 13), and Carbondale (by 5). I have to guess their biggest win is over Drake by 8, but this is just a wash since they lost to them by 11 on the road. Is this the track record you guys are all fired up about? I think success in the 2022-23 and 2023-24 seasons is probably one of the most important factors in selecting a new coach. Given the new landscape, I think we shoot for someone who has had success in the new framework. CenHudDude and 2010andBeyond like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: Everyone is in love with Schertz, but his evidence of success at the D-1 level consists of one and a half seasons and no tournament appearances yet. It's amazing to me how the momentum on this board flows. In the past, guys were absolutely adamant that we get a guy with a history of success in getting to the tournament. Now, because a guy's name is popular, its okay to get a guy with no track record. Let's look at this season. Who is Indiana State's biggest win this season? I don't see one. They have lost to Michigan State (by 10), Alabama (by 22), Drake (by 11), Illinois State (by 13), and Carbondale (by 5). I have to guess their biggest win is over Drake by 8, but this is just a wash since they lost to them by 11 on the road. Is this the track record you guys are all fired up about? First of all, on paper, Travis Ford had a track record of success in getting to the NCAA tournament. That got us 1 bid to the big dance. I think with the change in landscape with NIL and the transfer portal, people are placing a greater premium on being able to have success within this very small time frame. If someone made 3-5 tournaments 5-10 years ago, it may carry a little less weight. It’s also normal that when you fire a coach, fans tend to be intrigued by the opposite of the coach that you fired. There are questions as to Ford’s X’s and O’s coaching ability. Schertz, for example, is seemingly known for being a better tactician. CenHudDude, Soderball and TheBand like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 My interest in Schertz is that he seems like the rare ascending coach that we could land. MusicCityBilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 18 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: Everyone is in love with Schertz, but his evidence of success at the D-1 level consists of one and a half seasons and no tournament appearances yet. It's amazing to me how the momentum on this board flows. In the past, guys were absolutely adamant that we get a guy with a history of success in getting to the tournament. Now, because a guy's name is popular, its okay to get a guy with no track record. Let's look at this season. Who is Indiana State's biggest win this season? I don't see one. They have lost to Michigan State (by 10), Alabama (by 22), Drake (by 11), Illinois State (by 13), and Carbondale (by 5). I have to guess their biggest win is over Drake by 8, but this is just a wash since they lost to them by 11 on the road. Is this the track record you guys are all fired up about? Yeah it's kinda the nature of boards and human nature in general. Last coach had a long track record at a P5 school. It didn't work out so it's natural to shy away from that profile. Plus as @3star_recruitpoints out there is some reality and who is a feasible option. The Porter Moser's get to go to top P5 level jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabriel Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Bilzz said: Yeah, personally, I don't quite agree with this. Mine is more along these lines with the names you mentioned: Tier 1: Mack, Moser, Wade Tier 2: Holtmann, Schertz, McCollum Tier 3: DeVries, Petino Tier 4: Kerns, Enfield, Kelsey, Wardle Tier 5: Ahearn Tier 6: Crean, Weber, Ford, Cuonzo, Etc.. Mack, Moser, & Wade would make SLU instantly relevant nationally. If you can get one, you don't pass them up. I love this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I would rather grab a young guy on the rise. As had been pointed out, any coach who checks all our boxes for the next head coach is going to get serious consideration at a lot of P5 programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu92 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said: I would rather grab a young guy on the rise. As had been pointed out, any coach who checks all our boxes for the next head coach is going to get serious consideration at a lot of P5 programs. We think and believe SLU is a sleeping giant, I’m not sure the rest of the basketball world thinks the same way. That’s why I agree with this 100%. Box and Won likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stmdragons Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, cgeldmacher said: Everyone is in love with Schertz, but his evidence of success at the D-1 level consists of one and a half seasons and no tournament appearances yet. It's amazing to me how the momentum on this board flows. In the past, guys were absolutely adamant that we get a guy with a history of success in getting to the tournament. Now, because a guy's name is popular, its okay to get a guy with no track record. Let's look at this season. Who is Indiana State's biggest win this season? I don't see one. They have lost to Michigan State (by 10), Alabama (by 22), Drake (by 11), Illinois State (by 13), and Carbondale (by 5). I have to guess their biggest win is over Drake by 8, but this is just a wash since they lost to them by 11 on the road. Is this the track record you guys are all fired up about? He had Indiana State in the top 25 for the first time since the Carter administration on a shoestring NIL budget. I think it’s pretty clear the guy can coach, even if you discount his 13 year run of success at the D2 level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, brianstl said: For every Kim Anderson you have a Bob Huggins, Bo Ryan, Bruce Pearl, Steve Alford, Kelvin Sampson, John Chaney or John Beilein. The issue is it’s not working recently. Over the course of decades plenty of examples, but more times than not it hasn’t been working recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 You’re going to have to take some sort of risk either way, I don’t care that McCollum hasn’t been in D1. Give me that level of work ethic and humility in our head coaching position. He will likely come reasonably priced and if it doesn’t work you can pivot quickly. Literally okay with ANY of the names mentioned here above Billzzz Tier 5 as long as they are given an appropriate contract and the university doesn’t put themselves behind an 8 ball to cut bait immediately if it doesn’t work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: You’re going to have to take some sort of risk either way, I don’t care that McCollum hasn’t been in D1. Give me that level of work ethic and humility in our head coaching position. He will likely come reasonably priced and if it doesn’t work you can pivot quickly. Literally okay with ANY of the names mentioned here above Billzzz Tier 5 as long as they are given an appropriate contract and the university doesn’t put themselves behind an 8 ball to cut bait immediately if it doesn’t work out. I would think anyone between tiers 2-4 should be able to be had for 1.5-1.9 mill a year. I'd rather see that type of structure where the extra 600k-1mm goes more to the NIL side of things and gives room for a raise WITH success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, JMM28 said: I would think anyone between tiers 2-4 should be able to be had for 1.5-1.9 mill a year. I'd rather see that type of structure where the extra 600k-1mm goes more to the NIL side of things and gives room for a raise WITH success. You operate things correctly and have success on the court you can use tournament credits to cover the wage increases for the coach. Soderball and JMM28 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, brianstl said: You operate things correctly and have success on the court you can use tournament credits to cover the wage increases for the coach. Or pair it with a REASONABLE buyout paid when someone comes poaching our coach and you use the extra cash to hire bigger. Ride the coaches stepping on your stone en route to success. Soderball and wgstl like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I don't even know who I want making the final call on the next coach. I might honestly nominate one of us before anyone involved in the program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, DeSmetBilliken said: First of all, on paper, Travis Ford had a track record of success in getting to the NCAA tournament. That got us 1 bid to the big dance. I think with the change in landscape with NIL and the transfer portal, people are placing a greater premium on being able to have success within this very small time frame. If someone made 3-5 tournaments 5-10 years ago, it may carry a little less weight. It’s also normal that when you fire a coach, fans tend to be intrigued by the opposite of the coach that you fired. There are questions as to Ford’s X’s and O’s coaching ability. Schertz, for example, is seemingly known for being a better tactician. Schertz has PLAYERS who have ELIGIBILITY. Anyone who is factoring anything else in their coaching choice has no idea what they're watching. Schertz can stay three years, get us to the tournament, and be fired or move on. Who cares. We will go get another guy who has players. Seriously all of you. We don't just want Schertz; we want SWOPE AND AVILA! They can be on the court playing in SLU uniforms this year I'm not watching another year of this "remix-rebuild" trash. Give me players NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I understand the draw of getting a younger guy who’s on the rise. The problem is I just don’t see who they’ve beat this year. I don’t wanna get too excited about a guy who hasn’t really accomplished anything this year, at least not yet. If Drake is your best win this year and you also lost to Drake that’s not all that exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I know everybody’s down on getting a guy who just came out of a P5 program, because that’s what our current coach is. However, I don’t think that’s necessarily a reason to steer clear of those guys. I think those guys can do just as good of a job in turning us around and also deliver players immediately. Also, if they have success, they’re more likely to stay and finish things out here rather than try another P5 program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The way I view it is this: I’d rather be a year early on Schertz than a year late on a P5 guy dropping down. He’s got a wildly successful track record at the D2 level, and it’s showing that it translates to D1. Has he lost to bigger opponents on their schedule? Yes. But he’s doing something at Indiana State that hasn’t been done since Larry Bird. His coaching plus the jump in resources would be a lethal combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 11 minutes ago, johnbj14 said: The way I view it is this: I’d rather be a year early on Schertz than a year late on a P5 guy dropping down. He’s got a wildly successful track record at the D2 level, and it’s showing that it translates to D1. Has he lost to bigger opponents on their schedule? Yes. But he’s doing something at Indiana State that hasn’t been done since Larry Bird. His coaching plus the jump in resources would be a lethal combination. We could also be a year too early on realizing he can’t beat anyone better than Drake. I’m not saying the Schertz guys are wrong. I’m just saying there’s no evidence their right, and all they are basing things on is really, really hoping he does well. JMM28 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, slufan13 said: I don't even know who I want making the final call on the next coach. I might honestly nominate one of us before anyone involved in the program Might? You pick any random 5 here to form a panel and it’s a home run hire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: We could also be a year too early on realizing he can’t beat anyone better than Drake. I’m not saying the Schertz guys are wrong. I’m just saying there’s no evidence their right, and all they are basing things on is really, really hoping he does well. Can’t you say that about every candidate at the end of the day? There’s evidence the guy can coach. Yes, it’s at a lower level, but the mentality that guys need P5 experience to be a good coach are antiquated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 14 minutes ago, johnbj14 said: Can’t you say that about every candidate at the end of the day? There’s evidence the guy can coach. Yes, it’s at a lower level, but the mentality that guys need P5 experience to be a good coach are antiquated. Cgeldmacher wants you to doubt the potential of a new coach, he's a CTF defender and trying to get you to waste another year of your life watching this bum. Life is too short to waste time on Travis Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Soderball said: Cgeldmacher wants you to doubt the potential of a new coach, he's a CTF defender and trying to get you to waste another year of your life watching this bum. Life is too short to waste time on Travis Ford. Pay attention dumb$&#, I’ve been saying Ford needs to go. I just don’t see why everyone is in love with Schertz. ACE, Billikenbooster and drkelsey55 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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