The BVF Returns - Pay $250 to watch a sub .500 team practice

[HoosierPal]

34 minutes ago, DOC said:

I’m the reason for our lack of success? Ok. 

Is your record above .500? 

[3star_recruit]

25 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

It's not 1 message board post or 1 tweet it's the collection of fans. Engaged fans can make a difference.  It is our program, the students and alumni own the program.  The coaches don't own it,  the AD doesn't own it, we do, those that went to SLU and graduated. For them it's a job they can be wearing East Bum F#$% U colors tomorrow we'll still be in Blue and White. So while Torch maybe extreme, I think our collective discontent will make a difference and lead to a change soon-ish. Maybe that change leads to a Sweet 16.

As for the established coach hires if they fall on their face 6 out of 7 years, I'd be really surprised to see them paid at the highest rate and get extensions.

As I suspected, it all goes back to whether the big boosters are willing to pay for above average results, which we don't control.  We will never control them.  It doesn't matter whether you think we own the program.  Boosters don't answer to us.

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, DOC said:

My point was you didn’t offer anything worthwhile. 

Weird. Darin Hendrickson, Katie Shields, Kevin Kalish, Rebecca Tillett, Andrea Beaty and even Travis Ford thought it was worthwhile to spend 30 minutes on our show. I can give you a laundry list of people, including Troy Robertson who thought it was worthwhile to spend between 90 minutes to 4 hours. Imagine thinking speaking directly to the most rabid of Billiken fans for 30 minutes wouldn’t be worthwhile. Couldn’t be you. 

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

As I suspected, it all goes back to whether the big boosters are willing to pay for above average results, which we don't control.  We will never control them.  It doesn't matter whether you think we own the program.  Boosters don't answer to us.

But they're influenced by their surroundings.   You think the big boosters who spent $100mil to bring Jimbo Fisher to A&M aren't hearing the discontent of thousands of fans?

Sports are entertainment. You spend the big booster money and no one is happy less people show up that will likely have an effect. 

[Brighton]

By the time the status quo changes, Lindenwood or maybe SIUE would've passed SLU by. Those guys in St. Chuck County aren't fooling around. They already planting their flag in the local sports landscape.

[3star_recruit]

31 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

But they're influenced by their surroundings.   You think the big boosters who spent $100mil to bring Jimbo Fisher to A&M aren't hearing the discontent of thousands of fans?

Sports are entertainment. You spend the big booster money and no one is happy less people show up that will likely have an effect. 

Which is exactly what I recommended.  Nobody who feels the way you do should have renewed their season tickets this year.  Thousands of people need to be willing to withhold their money.  It's the only action you control.

[Aquinas]

Do women prefer to work for a man or woman

 

[DOC]

3 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Weird. Darin Hendrickson, Katie Shields, Kevin Kalish, Rebecca Tillett, Andrea Beaty and even Travis Ford thought it was worthwhile to spend 30 minutes on our show. I can give you a laundry list of people, including Troy Robertson who thought it was worthwhile to spend between 90 minutes to 4 hours. Imagine thinking speaking directly to the most rabid of Billiken fans for 30 minutes wouldn’t be worthwhile. Couldn’t be you. 

I think it's worthwhile they spend time on social media and any show that gets the word out. You happy now? I said they need to up their game and that if we want success we all have to contribute more to help the guys running the BVF. They are volunteers with careers and families. You said coming on your show was your limit to helping out. Got it. What some of you missed was the point of my post. You missed that completely and went into defense mode. Some of you are so wack that you blame a guy pushing for more people to get involved as the reason for our lack of success.

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, DOC said:

I think it's worthwhile they spend time on social media and any show that gets the word out. You happy now? I said they need to up their game and that if we want success we all have to contribute more to help the guys running the BVF. They are volunteers with careers and families. You said coming on your show was your limit to helping out. Got it. What some of you missed was the point of my post. You missed that completely and went into defense mode. Some of you are so wack that you blame a guy pushing for more people to get involved as the reason for our lack of success.

Nah you came at him by insinuating his offer isn't helpful and that he do something else. If you didn't mean that then you're very bad at conveying a message.  You could just apologize instead of doubling down on your error.

[TheChosenOne]

9 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Which is exactly what I recommended.  Nobody who feels the way you do should have renewed their season tickets this year.  Thousands of people need to be willing to withhold their money.  It's the only action you control.

I’m not as down on the program as some on here, but I can say we (my wife and I) did not renew our tickets for this season. We had tickets that included about a $500 donation per ticket. I don’t recall the exact split, but know each ticket was about $1,000 and split close to even between the ticket price and donation. Candidly it is more because of things Ford can’t control, I have such little interest in most of our schedule. I’m not bullish on the team, but lost interest in spending about $2,000 for tickets to games we largely end up having no desire attending and can’t even find folks to give the tickets away to. The above is an issue for sure. There is no buzz around the program currently. I’m not trying to make some big point about Ford and May by not renewing, but possibly a financial decision others make as well when it just isn’t worth it to spend that sort of $ to sit through boring games.

[cheeseman]

You support a team for many reasons.  If you are a fan of a team you realize that there will be good and bad times.  Being frustrated with the Billikens lack of hype is a bit odd to me.  The team was an upper class roster who underachieved for whatever reason.  Everyone knew they would be in trouble once that team aged out - it was no secret.  The problem is that Ford is at the helm and he is responsible for where the team is and where it is going.  For those who thought it might be best to cut ties none of this is a surprise.  We knew thin times were ahead and believed that the sooner we set a new course the better.  If this year is as weak as it may appear - time will only tell - how did keeping Ford around for another year help?  It only puts us another year behind.  As far as renewing tickets go everyone has to make that decision based on their own personal situation.  I did renew even knowing that things were not bright.  The problem is if you drop your season tickets then you lose all the seniority you built up but then again some might say that is sunk money so keeping them is just good money after bad.  I will admit that I am losing patience with the situation.  This willingness to accept mediocrity by the administration is frustrating and will eventually do them and the program in.  

[Pistol]

9 hours ago, DOC said:

Agree. I was advocating for more people to get involved. What’s wrong with that? If you’re going to criticize then why not get involved in a tangible way? 

Isn't that exactly what we've offered - to get involved in a tangible way? And to use our platform to get more people involved? What am I missing?

[TheChosenOne]

4 hours ago, cheeseman said:

The problem is if you drop your season tickets then you lose all the seniority you built up but then again some might say that is sunk money so keeping them is just good money after bad.

That’s the thing, the level we were at is not sold out, so we could buy right back in to essentially those same seats if we wanted to.

[TheChosenOne]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

Isn't that exactly what we've offered - to get involved in a tangible way? And to use our platform to get more people involved? What am I missing?

Right. I don’t understand the argument. You all have offered up your platform and it is really strange you weren’t taken up on that offer. Trust me, I get that NIL is primarily for the whales, but to not talk to the passionate fans and let them know what the group is doing and how they can contribute is a missed opportunity.

[DOC]

13 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

Right. I don’t understand the argument. You all have offered up your platform and it is really strange you weren’t taken up on that offer. Trust me, I get that NIL is primarily for the whales, but to not talk to the passionate fans and let them know what the group is doing and how they can contribute is a missed opportunity.

The argument wasn’t that they shouldn’t go on your show. IT Never WAS. They definitely should be spreading the word far and wide. My point all along is that if you are passionate about SLU basketball you are going to need to give more for the program to have any success going forward and the people in charge need our help. I simply offered an idea for one of their main critics to get involved. The people you expect to do it all aren’t going to be able to do it by themselves and instead of just criticizing them, join in. That’s the argument. If coming on your show is the limit to your giving then so be it. We all have a limit. 

[TheChosenOne]

2 hours ago, DOC said:

The argument wasn’t that they shouldn’t go on your show. IT Never WAS. They definitely should be spreading the word far and wide. My point all along is that if you are passionate about SLU basketball you are going to need to give more for the program to have any success going forward and the people in charge need our help. I simply offered an idea for one of their main critics to get involved. The people you expect to do it all aren’t going to be able to do it by themselves and instead of just criticizing them, join in. That’s the argument. If coming on your show is the limit to your giving then so be it. We all have a limit. 

I have no involvement in the show. I get your primary point, just maybe not how you brought it up using their podcast that has made an effort to assist the group. My only contribution to Billiken fandom was hosting one tailgate a few years back which was a bust (ended up being brutally cold) and I think maybe hosting one with Zac and Peter's show could be fun this season. I have not mentioned this to them, so this is not something in the works at all. I have essentially no life, so if anyone is interested maybe we can pick a game that makes sense. The preseason has been so quiet and we seem to be sniping a lot with each other, why not bring fans together to share a beer and fellowship before a game? My wife did enjoy hearing folks introduce themselves by their screen name, not sure she has ever been so attracted to me hahaha. But, it was really enjoyable to meet some of the folks who did brave the brutal weather.

[brianstl]

25 minutes ago, DOC said:

The argument wasn’t that they shouldn’t go on your show. IT Never WAS. They definitely should be spreading the word far and wide. My point all along is that if you are passionate about SLU basketball you are going to need to give more for the program to have any success going forward and the people in charge need our help. I simply offered an idea for one of their main critics to get involved. The people you expect to do it all aren’t going to be able to do it by themselves and instead of just criticizing them, join in. That’s the argument. If coming on your show is the limit to your giving then so be it. We all have a limit. 

The problem is the people in charge haven't really asked for the help.  The little that as been done with the BVF has not made it easy to provide continuing help and has done nothing to encourage that help.  By all appearances it seems that they don't want us to join them.

[Pistol]

26 minutes ago, DOC said:

The argument wasn’t that they shouldn’t go on your show. IT Never WAS. They definitely should be spreading the word far and wide. My point all along is that if you are passionate about SLU basketball you are going to need to give more for the program to have any success going forward and the people in charge need our help. I simply offered an idea for one of their main critics to get involved. The people you expect to do it all aren’t going to be able to do it by themselves and instead of just criticizing them, join in. That’s the argument. If coming on your show is the limit to your giving then so be it. We all have a limit. 

I think the disconnect is it sounds like you've been referring to helping (or "joining in" or "getting involved with") the BVF monetarily. Which I understand - at the end of the day, it exists to solicit direct donations - but my point is that we have a platform that can reach more people and possibly get more donations.

In other words, I could just shut up and give a few hundred dollars or I could give them an opportunity to reach a few hundred possible donors, and maybe a few dozen of those people decide to give a few hundred dollars based on what they hear. If I'm the BVF, I'm thinking about ways to make the latter happen (or really, both).

[dlarry]

41 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I think the disconnect is it sounds like you've been referring to helping (or "joining in" or "getting involved with") the BVF monetarily. Which I understand - at the end of the day, it exists to solicit direct donations - but my point is that we have a platform that can reach more people and possibly get more donations.

In other words, I could just shut up and give a few hundred dollars or I could give them an opportunity to reach a few hundred possible donors, and maybe a few dozen of those people decide to give a few hundred dollars based on what they hear. If I'm the BVF, I'm thinking about ways to make the latter happen (or really, both).

[3star_recruit]

29 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I think the disconnect is it sounds like you've been referring to helping (or "joining in" or "getting involved with") the BVF monetarily. Which I understand - at the end of the day, it exists to solicit direct donations - but my point is that we have a platform that can reach more people and possibly get more donations.

In other words, I could just shut up and give a few hundred dollars or I could give them an opportunity to reach a few hundred possible donors, and maybe a few dozen of those people decide to give a few hundred dollars based on what they hear. If I'm the BVF, I'm thinking about ways to make the latter happen (or really, both).

I'm not sure where that disconnect is coming from Peter because this is literally in Doc's first response:
 

Quote

Might I suggest you offer to take over their social media accounts? You would be great at it and we would all be informed and you would be helpful, not critical.

Doc was suggesting an ongoing social media effort rather a one-time interview on the podcast.  I don't recall him mentioning anything about giving money.  It's the seeming lack of social media effort by the BVF that started the conversation in the first place.  Zac seems like he has a full schedule already, so I understand where he was coming from with his statement "I offered what I had to offer."

I think Doc is on to something.  The BVF volunteers seem to only have experience with old fashioned fundraising and the Billikens.com crowd has some folks with social media expertise that don't have much money.  Any BVF volunteers reading the board who can make this marriage happen?  

[willie]

I think the pricipals envolved in the BVF were naive in how to raise money. Don't know the background of the lawyer but I   guess t Troy,Scott or Joe Wiley have not had  much funraising experience. Built it and they will come doesn't work. IMO they need a whale to head it up. Someone who can make a major commitment and has the stature to solicit other large commitments. I am not disguarding smaller contributions I just don't think that will move the needle. Who is the whale? Don't know but you had some major contributions to the Champion Center. 

[Pistol]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:54 PM, DOC said:

No disrespect, but offering someone to come on your podcast is not helping the BVF. I mean, isn’t it your job to give your audience relevant content? With the being said, the BVF needs to up their game. The problem is that the BVF is run by volunteers who have full time jobs and families. Is going on your show going to move the needle on someone very limited on time? No. They have to utilize their time getting cash. Might I suggest you offer to take over their social media accounts? You would be great at it and we would all be informed and you would be helpful, not critical. 

 

12 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I'm not sure where that disconnect is coming from Peter because this is literally in Doc's first response:

 

Doc was suggesting an ongoing social media effort rather a one-time interview on the podcast.  I don't recall him mentioning anything about giving money.  It's the seeming lack of social media effort by the BVF that started the conversation in the first place.  Zac seems like he has a full schedule already, so I understand where he was coming from with his statement "I offered what I had to offer."

I think Doc is on to something.  The BVF volunteers seem to only have experience with old fashioned fundraising and the Billikens.com crowd has some folks with social media expertise that don't have much money.  Any BVF volunteers reading the board who can make this marriage happen?  

The above is what I initially responded to. He flat-out says "offering someone to come on your podcast is not helping the BVF." I disagree with that (and I disagree that it wouldn't be "relevant content") and gave what I thought was a pretty well-reasoned response explaining why I disagree.

We obviously all agree that the BVF needs to do more and a 5-month social media hiatus isn't helping their cause. It seems far-fetched that they'd hand over their social media accounts to us, so I didn't even address that point. Zac and I offered what we have to offer: our platform.

[brianstl]

27 minutes ago, willie said:

I think the pricipals envolved in the BVF were naive in how to raise money. Don't know the background of the lawyer but I   guess t Troy,Scott or Joe Wiley have not had  much funraising experience. Built it and they will come doesn't work. IMO they need a whale to head it up. Someone who can make a major commitment and has the stature to solicit other large commitments. I am not disguarding smaller contributions I just don't think that will move the needle. Who is the whale? Don't know but you had some major contributions to the Champion Center. 

I think you need both.  If you ignore the smaller donors you are leaving what could/should be a large collective amount of money on the table.  Plus if you set it up as a recurring donations you give the BVF a consistent revenue source throughout the year.  You need that consistent revenue source to operate BVF like a business.

[Pistol]

11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think you need both.  If you ignore the smaller donors you leaving what could/should be a large collective amount of money on the table.  Plus if you set it up as a recurring donations you give the BVF a consistent revenue source throughout the year.  You need that consistent revenue source to operate BVF like a business.

The answer is always "all of the above" in this context, and it applies to both the BVF and the athletic department as a whole right now. Keep everyone engaged. Don't just cater to the top tier of donors while ignoring the rank and file fans. Not only do you need to build critical mass to sustain the program/BVF, but you never know which potential future big fish you're losing because you ignored them as a minnow.

[DOC]

49 minutes ago, Pistol said:

 

The above is what I initially responded to. He flat-out says "offering someone to come on your podcast is not helping the BVF." I disagree with that (and I disagree that it wouldn't be "relevant content") and gave what I thought was a pretty well-reasoned response explaining why I disagree.

We obviously all agree that the BVF needs to do more and a 5-month social media hiatus isn't helping their cause. It seems far-fetched that they'd hand over their social media accounts to us, so I didn't even address that point. Zac and I offered what we have to offer: our platform.

That was in the context of 05 saying he was offering the BVF time on your show and that was his offer to help. My response was simply that it's your job to get them on and provide relevant content to your audience. That would consist of getting folks like the BVF on your show. I was asking for more from a critic. He said that was his limit. End of story. To be clear, I absolutely think someone representing the BVF should be on your show.