Coach's Show with Rammer, Jan 9 & 23, Feb 6, 13

[laker119]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i bet 90% of the D1 college coaches pull the player with 2 fouls in the first half.   you act like this is some radical move by ford, it is what college basketball coaches have done for 30 years.  

First of all, I bet they don’t have a hard and fast rule that they always pull them.  Second of all, I’d bet the 10% of coaches who don’t are more successful than the 90% who do.  

[wgstl]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i bet 90% of the D1 college coaches pull the player with 2 fouls in the first half.   you act like this is some radical move by ford, it is what college basketball coaches have done for 30 years.  

Ya its really normal.  I just wish at times, depending on the feel of a game, he keeps yuri in a little longer.  the bigs make sense to pull right away, Perkins also makes a lot of sense to pull right away.

[HoosierPal]

10 hours ago, TomM said:

I tried to go to the radio show but Fieldhouse was close

I'm not sure, but I think Earl said they were at Chaifetz. 

[HoosierPal]

16 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i bet 90% of the D1 college coaches pull the player with 2 fouls in the first half.   you act like this is some radical move by ford, it is what college basketball coaches have done for 30 years.  

Very true.  His new wrinkle is pulling Okoro after his first foul, saying he wants to make sure he doesn't get his second too soon in the first half.  Of course he puts Okoro back in, but he usually sits for several minutes.  I believe Okoro got his first against VCU  two minutes in and sat for 7.  But Forrester was on a roll, so in that game, it was beneficial.

[Taj79]

Dalen Cuff said on the VCU game that SLU was one of the top five teams in the country when it comes to pulling guys with two fouls and sitting them for the rest of the first half.  I forget what he called it but in today's day and age of sabermetrics and the like, the fact that it is measured does not surprise me.  Giving the abundance ofofuls at our five spot, it would have seemed quite appropriate to throw MoMo out there and let him get some experience during spelling moments.  He is a liability and inconsistent --- the block against Davidson followed by the immediate foul --- but at that point the object is learning and protecting the two real fives.  

I still argue that our guys play stupid defense.  If you are beat, why complicate matters by fouling to boot?  Give up the two and hope he misses but don't give the three away.  Plus, we seem to get at least two to three offensive fouls per game due to non-stationary picks.  I don't know if this is on Yuri or on the big but it seems correctable.  Don't go anywhere near a jumping three poitn shooter --- jump to the side.  And I have seen a lot of refs miss the stupid flops these guys pull on alling on their own on a three.  Daryl Banks and Darius Quisenberry are pros at it.  

If we truly believe Ford is who he is as a coach, he ain't changing.  Not after 35 or so years doing this.  I'm okay with it but I think it would be a non-issue if our veteran guys figured out some avoidance defense as well.

[billikenfan05]

Ford pulling Yuri vs Fordham with 2 fouls absolutely contributed to us losing. You're up 8 on the road, you've watched them play Dayton and fold to their big runs. Billikens go on a run to go up 8, Fordham can't make sh*t, Yuri comes out, defense holds but offense stalls. You leave Yuri in, if he gets his 3rd, fine. But go for the win, don't play scared.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, laker119 said:

This tells you all you need to know. If you have a rule that you automatically yank players with two fouls, with little room for adjustment, I can’t take you seriously as a Division 1 basketball coach…and neither do other A10 teams, apparently

One really interesting thing to me near the end of the VCU after the flagrant was Mike Rhodes seemingly laughing at and mocking Ford.  I appears Ford's act has worn thin on both A10 officials and Ford's peers in the conference.

[willie]

39 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Very true.  His new wrinkle is pulling Okoro after his first foul, saying he wants to make sure he doesn't get his second too soon in the first half.  Of course he puts Okoro back in, but he usually sits for several minutes.  I believe Okoro got his first against VCU  two minutes in and sat for 7.  But Forrester was on a roll, so in that game, it was beneficial.

I actually think this makes sense . 

[CenHudDude]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i bet 90% of the D1 college coaches pull the player with 2 fouls in the first half.   you act like this is some radical move by ford, it is what college basketball coaches have done for 30 years.  

You’re right Roy.  I can’t remember when coaches didn’t do that.

[BANGheGOTit]

KNOW YOUR TEAM!  How many times has a player been pulled with 2 fouls in the first half and they end up with 3?  Maybe they get 4 fouls and don’t play quite as much or maybe they eventually foul out…but this team and this coach cannot secure a lead.  NO LEAD IS SAFE with this squad!  You have a chance to bury some opponent, but you take your foot off the gas, or you pull a player with 2 fouls even though they are having g huge success.  You play right into the hands of a weaker opponent and instead of stomping on their throat and get into their heads—you stab yourself in the foot and stop doing what hit you your lead and before you know it, you’ve given a weaker opponent HOPE.  Yes opponents make counter moves and possibly that dictates a move from you—but if you can’t trust “the greatest PG in history” to play with 2 fouls with 10 min left in the first half, I don’t know what to tell you.  It’s mind boggling to see the self inflicted wounds this team and coach commit.

[billiken_roy]

30 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

You’re right Roy.  I can’t remember when coaches didn’t do that.

i think that became a thing in the late 80's.   i know spoon did it and i clearly remember it was discussed that spoon would always bench the guy with 2 fouls in the first half.   in the 70's when i played in high school we never got taken out till 3 fouls in the first half and 4 in the second.   

[Aquinas]

3 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

KNOW YOUR TEAM!  How many times has a player been pulled with 2 fouls in the first half and they end up with 3?  Maybe they get 4 fouls and don’t play quite as much or maybe they eventually foul out…but this team and this coach cannot secure a lead.  NO LEAD IS SAFE with this squad!  You have a chance to bury some opponent, but you take your foot off the gas, or you pull a player with 2 fouls even though they are having g huge success.  You play right into the hands of a weaker opponent and instead of stomping on their throat and get into their heads—you stab yourself in the foot and stop doing what hit you your lead and before you know it, you’ve given a weaker opponent HOPE.  Yes opponents make counter moves and possibly that dictates a move from you—but if you can’t trust “the greatest PG in history” to play with 2 fouls with 10 min left in the first half, I don’t know what to tell you.  It’s mind boggling to see the self inflicted wounds this team and coach commit.

I've seen Yuri pick up a lot of stupid fouls when he should have been playing safe. 

[BANGheGOTit]

1 minute ago, Aquinas said:

I've seen Yuri pick up a lot of stupid fouls when he should have been playing safe. 

Valid point, and I’ve seen some at horrible times, but maybe you drill it into his head “stay in the game”…I’ve just seen waaaay too many leads lost, or unnecessary ends of huge runs because of pulling a player who was critical to the success.  If I’m the opposing coach I am drilling it into my teams heads that this SLU team will absolutely blow a lead.  Don’t get down, keep fighting…this Billiken team will completely collapse if you just stay focused against them.

[Cowboy II]

-according to CFord the sit the rest of the half is not a hard and fast rule as he says if the score gets to some point he would put the player back in the game

-it was before Christmas in a game, not SLU, two players got their 2nd fouls before the 10min mark, the coach brought each of them back for a minute or two so they didn't sit the whole rest of the half, the analyst, after the two players didn't foul said that was a great strategy and I agreed but don't think we could do it as committ so many stupid fouls, I remember the game I am remembering being close throughout so the subs didn't kill the team

-from Stu's article, quoting CFord: "I don’t think there’s anything drastic we’re going to change." --- later 

Even the guys we weren’t so happy with the other night, it doesn’t mean we’re going to give their minutes to someone else.”

-so the rotation is the rotation and don't look for a change in it

[kmbilliken]

1 hour ago, Cowboy II said:

-according to CFord the sit the rest of the half is not a hard and fast rule as he says if the score gets to some point he would put the player back in the game

-it was before Christmas in a game, not SLU, two players got their 2nd fouls before the 10min mark, the coach brought each of them back for a minute or two so they didn't sit the whole rest of the half, the analyst, after the two players didn't foul said that was a great strategy and I agreed but don't think we could do it as committ so many stupid fouls, I remember the game I am remembering being close throughout so the subs didn't kill the team

-from Stu's article, quoting CFord: "I don’t think there’s anything drastic we’re going to change." --- later 

Even the guys we weren’t so happy with the other night, it doesn’t mean we’re going to give their minutes to someone else.”

-so the rotation is the rotation and don't look for a change in it

Sincere needs more minutes. He has star potential and needs time to be the star.

[majerus mojo]

5 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Ford pulling Yuri vs Fordham with 2 fouls absolutely contributed to us losing. You're up 8 on the road, you've watched them play Dayton and fold to their big runs. Billikens go on a run to go up 8, Fordham can't make sh*t, Yuri comes out, defense holds but offense stalls. You leave Yuri in, if he gets his 3rd, fine. But go for the win, don't play scared.

You guys were pretty rough on Yuri on the last pod. I get that he's not the rah-rah leader we want (basically the opposite), and the critiques were valid, but I just kept thinking how worse off we would be without him. 

It was 19-15 when he picked up his second foul? 19-17 after the dude hit both his FTs? The half ended 36-31, and Yuri was able to play the entire 2nd half without foul trouble. We don't have to reach on some of this stuff 

[BANGheGOTit]

14 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

You guys pretty rough on Yuri on the last pod. I get that he's not the rah-rah leader we want (basically the opposite), and the critiques were valid, but I just kept thinking how worse off we would be without him. 

It was 19-15 when he picked up his second foul? 19-17 after the dude hit both his FTs? The half ended 36-31, and Yuri was able to play the entire 2nd half without foul trouble. We don't have to reach on some of this stuff 

Perhaps the NIT game and the transfer bull crap really tainted my opinion of Yuri, but while I am amazed at some of his skill level I’ve also been critical of his play. I think the thing to consider is, how much time would others have gotten in the off-season that would have benefited them come time for the season to start.  But even more importantly than that, is you would have had a legit opportunity to get a D1 point guard Transfer.  I’m not convinced a different legit PG would not have the same or even more success than Yuri with this team.  Yuri may get the stats, but I don’t see him necessarily making others better.  There’s no doubt in my mind the coaching staff wouldn’t have found someone to come in and direct this team.  

[wgstl]

26 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

You guys were pretty rough on Yuri on the last pod. I get that he's not the rah-rah leader we want (basically the opposite), and the critiques were valid, but I just kept thinking how worse off we would be without him. 

I was gonna wait till after the season, and still will ask then.  since it was rumored that had Yuri left, we had a real shot at Ramey.  For this team, would you rather have a passer like Yuri, or one of the best 3 point defenders, and really one of the best defenders in general. 

[Taj79]

As a self-appointed coach of an imaginary A10 team, my direction before every game I played SLU would be "get #1 in foul trouble and get #5 in foul trouble too.  Both seem adept at picking up dumb fouls.  You negate one or both, and SLU is ripe for the picking."  

You take out the leading assist man for any team at any level, with no credible backup, and you're in great shape.  Ditto the leading rebounder on a generally weak rebounding team.  As the conference season rolls around, even John Giannini or Brian Gregory or Dave Paulsen would have figured this out.In addition, I'd structure my rotation so that my best defender not onyl get #1, but the replacements are lined up to continue the pressure should my number one go down.  Dayton has Smith, Blakney and Elvis.  CU has Badlwin, Kern, Nunn and Jackson.  Fordham has Quisenberry, Rose and Charleton.  Pretty simple as time has worn on.

[majerus mojo]

4 hours ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Perhaps the NIT game and the transfer bull crap really tainted my opinion of Yuri, but while I am amazed at some of his skill level I’ve also been critical of his play. I think the thing to consider is, how much time would others have gotten in the off-season that would have benefited them come time for the season to start.  But even more importantly than that, is you would have had a legit opportunity to get a D1 point guard Transfer.  I’m not convinced a different legit PG would not have the same or even more success than Yuri with this team.  Yuri may get the stats, but I don’t see him necessarily making others better.  There’s no doubt in my mind the coaching staff wouldn’t have found someone to come in and direct this team.  

 

4 hours ago, wgstl said:

I was gonna wait till after the season, and still will ask then.  since it was rumored that had Yuri left, we had a real shot at Ramey.  For this team, would you rather have a passer like Yuri, or one of the best 3 point defenders, and really one of the best defenders in general. 

It's all Captain Hindsight stuff at this point. Pre-season, we're all taking Yuri returning over an UNKNOWN replacement (even someone as good as Ramey). As it stands now, or when you ask this after the season, sure, I would re-roll with Ramey. Nothing to lose vs. our current situation

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Perhaps the NIT game and the transfer bull crap really tainted my opinion of Yuri, but while I am amazed at some of his skill level I’ve also been critical of his play. I think the thing to consider is, how much time would others have gotten in the off-season that would have benefited them come time for the season to start.  But even more importantly than that, is you would have had a legit opportunity to get a D1 point guard Transfer.  I’m not convinced a different legit PG would not have the same or even more success than Yuri with this team.  Yuri may get the stats, but I don’t see him necessarily making others better.  There’s no doubt in my mind the coaching staff wouldn’t have found someone to come in and direct this team.  

The story goes Ramey was coming to SLU not Arizona until Yuri did the about face

[stmdragons]

2 hours ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Perhaps the NIT game and the transfer bull crap really tainted my opinion of Yuri, but while I am amazed at some of his skill level I’ve also been critical of his play. I think the thing to consider is, how much time would others have gotten in the off-season that would have benefited them come time for the season to start.  But even more importantly than that, is you would have had a legit opportunity to get a D1 point guard Transfer.  I’m not convinced a different legit PG would not have the same or even more success than Yuri with this team.  Yuri may get the stats, but I don’t see him necessarily making others better.  There’s no doubt in my mind the coaching staff wouldn’t have found someone to come in and direct this team.  

I really wish people would stop throwing around the baseless claim that he willingly sat out the NIT game last year. 

[Slowry]

I don’t see Yuri sitting out if he can play.  He doesn’t strike me as that type. The young man is a hard nosed player.  I’m glad he’s our guard.  I think Travis has done him a disservice by touting his as the best guard in the nation.  He’s very good and fun to watch.  But he’s not near the best.  I just wish he didn’t default to hero ball so much.

[BANGheGOTit]

4 minutes ago, Slowry said:

I don’t see Yuri sitting out if he can play.  He doesn’t strike me as that type. The young man is a hard nosed player.  I’m glad he’s our guard.  I think Travis has done him a disservice by touting his as the best guard in the nation.  He’s very good and fun to watch.  But he’s not near the best.  I just wish he didn’t default to hero ball so much.

Wasn’t it Ford or someone on the staff who said the staff didn’t even know he wasn’t playing until game day?  If that’s true that shows a disconnect between Yuri and the staff or Yuri and the team.  Follow that up with a portal entry…yeah he was hurt.

[TheOne]

1 hour ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Wasn’t it Ford or someone on the staff who said the staff didn’t even know he wasn’t playing until game day?  If that’s true that shows a disconnect between Yuri and the staff or Yuri and the team.  Follow that up with a portal entry…yeah he was hurt.

To settle this once again (and hopefully the final time)… He was hurt. He disclosed to the staff post A10 tournament that he had a pain in his foot during tournament play. Saw doctor who ordered tests. Results came back same day as NIT game that he had hairline injury that feared could get worse by staff and docs if played on that same day, so game-day decision to sit due to injury.