Band?

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

17 minutes ago, Soderball said:

We aren't talking about half. Desmet said they wiped out a 250$ per semester scholarship. The AD is also asking these volunteers to work booster events, nonrevenue sports and the like. It sounds like the AD does want live music for it's events. Cool. Pay people for it. It doesn't take a half scholarship at SLU(which is what like a million by now?)

From what I've heard they don't even offer food or appreciation if those events are at odd times. They just assume they'll be there.

[SouthSide_Billiken]

To compare what was designed to be a basketball only pep band at a school like SLU to arguably the most acclaimed marching band in the country (Ohio State) is a bit ridiculous. There are virtually no similarities between an elite marching band and a basketball pep band. However, since you mention it, there are substantial scholarships available for students in the Ohio State marching band. They appear to have an established Band Endowment (https://www.tbdbitl.com/SOCform.pdf). Furthermore, based on an article from 2019, through private funding every member of the Ohio State marching band receives at least $3,000 (https://halftimemag.com/july-august-2019/ohio-state-raises-8-6-million-for-band-scholarships.html). 

Regardless, the point of bringing up the elimination of the modest stipend formerly provided to students in the pep band was to highlight another example of the Athletic Department "taking away" a perk of being in the band. 

And while I understand that one would think the Athletic Department wanting us at other sports indicates a desire for live music, this is not really accurate. They want the band there for window dressing on their terms. They don't really care about the quality of the product. In fact, a member of the Athletic Department once suggested that members of the band just show up and hit some drums at soccer games. 

Good leadership removes obstacles and puts people in a position to succeed. When it comes to the band, the Athletic Department does the exact opposite. It creates obstacles and puts the band in a position to fail. 

[JMM28]

25 minutes ago, SouthSide_Billiken said:

And while I understand that one would think the Athletic Department wanting us at other sports indicates a desire for live music, this is not really accurate. They want the band there for window dressing on their terms. They don't really care about the quality of the product.

I would assume this is driven by coaches griping that their non-revenue producing teams should have an experience just the exact same as the program that funds their programs’ existence. 
 

And/or the department’s want to have sports seen as equal. Which most would admit is crap if they were being honest. 

[Aquinas]

I went to a Kentucky  at Florida game a few years ago. In my opinion, the college energy and atmosphere of the game was superior at the UF game when compared to Billiken games, with one exception, THE BAND. And it wasn't close. 

[DeSmetBilliken]

14 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I would assume this is driven by coaches griping that their non-revenue producing teams should have an experience just the exact same as the program that funds their programs’ existence. 
 

And/or the department’s want to have sports seen as equal. Which most would admit is crap if they were being honest. 

By itself, there isn’t a problem with the idea of wanting some musical representation at other events. The problem arises when it comes at the expense of the product that has worked well for close to 40 years. 
The proper handling would have been for someone in athletics to have taken the steps to assemble separate groups to provide that wanted additional representation at other events. At minimum, if they wanted coverage at fill in the blank event, communicate that expectation well in advance, so that plans could have potentially been made. Instead, the course of action that Athletics repeatedly took was to look at a calendar on Monday or Tuesday, decide that there were 5 events at which they wanted band representation, and then send an email to the director on Tuesday, Wednesday, or maybe even Thursday saying “the band needs to be at these 5 events from Wednesday through Sunday.” It’s just a bad way of handling things.

What happens if the band couldn’t scramble a group to all of these events? I’m not certain, but let’s just say that the athletics department has shown before that they’re more likely to be helpful when the band does what it wants.

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

13 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

What happens if the band couldn’t scramble a group to all of these events?

I've heard at least one member was present at every event they requested. It was usually Austin, unfortunately. 

[Young Charles]

The Band is a MAJOR reason I go to games. No Disc Jockey can replicate our Band in any way shape or form. Do whatever needs to happen to keep the band together! 

[Lord Elrond]

I am very curious to see whats up with the band at the WBB game tomorrow night. 

[TheBand]

More curious if the administration investigates the mental health and pressures the students in the band reported to the director who relayed multiple times to the ath dept that weren’t addressed.

 

Thats the only concern, student welfare. 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

8 hours ago, Young Charles said:

The Band is a MAJOR reason I go to games. No Disc Jockey can replicate our Band in any way shape or form. Do whatever needs to happen to keep the band together! 

Email and talk to the powers that be. Let them know. If everyone on this board does that, something might change.

[Taj79]

Curious —— what mental health problems come from playing in a/the band?

[pretty_ricky]

10 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Curious —— what mental health problems come from playing in a/the band?

I don't think it's hard to see why being asked to change your schedule on a whim would cause stress and anxiety....

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

8 minutes ago, pretty_ricky said:

I don't think it's hard to see why being asked to change your schedule on a whim would cause stress and anxiety....

Especially when the majority of the band are working adults with families/community obligations and not students.

[TheBand]

31 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Especially when the majority of the band are working adults with families/community obligations and not students.

These were students who brought the issue to Austin.  You know this, quit trying to  be deceiving. 
 

not to say that non-students can't experience stress from that sort of thing, but we're advocating for the students to be treated better primarily.

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Curious —— what mental health problems come from playing in a/the band?

Yeah i wouldn't ask the answer will probably only lessen your faith in the youth of America. 

[TheA_Bomb]

AD "Hey can you play this event?"

Band Member "You going to provide some benefit to me if I do?"

AD "No."

Band Member "Nah I'm good."

Done

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

17 minutes ago, TheBand said:

These were students who brought the issue to Austin.  You know this, quit trying to  be deceiving. 
 

not to say that non-students can't experience stress from that sort of thing, but we're advocating for the students to be treated better primarily.

Again, stop accusing me of doing anything. I'm on your side. Take the assist when you can. 

[dlarry]

58 minutes ago, pretty_ricky said:

I don't think it's hard to see why being asked to change your schedule on a whim would cause stress and anxiety....

I’m not saying the band isn’t getting the shaft because it sounds like they are getting jerked around.

That said, stress and anxiety and changes to your schedule on a whim are part of life.

[billikenfan05]

36 minutes ago, TheBand said:

These were students who brought the issue to Austin.  You know this, quit trying to  be deceiving. 
 

not to say that non-students can't experience stress from that sort of thing, but we're advocating for the students to be treated better primarily.

 

18 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Again, stop accusing me of doing anything. I'm on your side. Take the assist when you can. 

BJCH, I get what you're saying here. But I gotta roll with @TheBand.

I think it's preposterous that the AD doesn't just say "these are the games in each sport that the band need to attend" at the beginning of the year. At that point band should have just said, "Look adding dates for volunteers is going to be difficult and put stress on the current members. We would absolutely be happy to do so next fall, but we'd also like to discuss how we can offer more to students and alumni that play at these events. ie: scholarship, credit, billiken bucks, flex dollars, pregame dinner etc."

However, the ends don't justify the means. There's no need to stretch the truth here. if it's student mental health, as stated in the OG tweet, then that has to be the focus. I'm only speaking about myself here but when goal posts get moved or the main complaint evolves, I start to check out. I don't think it helps as much as it hurts the cause.

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

6 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

BJCH, I get what you're saying here. But I gotta roll with @TheBand.

I think it's preposterous that the AD doesn't just say "these are the games in each sport that the band need to attend" at the beginning of the year. At that point band should have just said, "Look adding dates for volunteers is going to be difficult and put stress on the current members. We would absolutely be happy to do so next fall, but we'd also like to discuss how we can offer more to students and alumni that play at these events. ie: scholarship, credit, billiken bucks, flex dollars, pregame dinner etc."

However, the ends don't justify the means. There's no need to stretch the truth here. if it's student mental health, as stated in the OG tweet, then that has to be the focus. I'm only speaking about myself here but when goal posts get moved or the main complaint evolves, I start to check out. I don't think it helps as much as it hurts the cause.

I just don't like being attacked. I agree with everything here, but legitimately there are multiple issues here and I'm not saying student mental health shouldn't be the focus of them because, above all, this is and should be a student experience. Billikenfan05 I know you're not the one doing it, but I just want people to stop acting like I'm some kind of class traitor here.

[TheBand]

8 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

BJCH, I get what you're saying here. But I gotta roll with @TheBand.

I think it's preposterous that the AD doesn't just say "these are the games in each sport that the band need to attend" at the beginning of the year. At that point band should have just said, "Look adding dates for volunteers is going to be difficult and put stress on the current members. We would absolutely be happy to do so next fall, but we'd also like to discuss how we can offer more to students and alumni that play at these events. ie: scholarship, credit, billiken bucks, flex dollars, pregame dinner etc."

However, the ends don't justify the means. There's no need to stretch the truth here. if it's student mental health, as stated in the OG tweet, then that has to be the focus. I'm only speaking about myself here but when goal posts get moved or the main complaint evolves, I start to check out. I don't think it helps as much as it hurts the cause.

Thank you.

a constant moving target without any rhyme or reason is incredibly stressful.  Add into the fact that these students are different than when most of us attended school, means instructors and courses and curriculum need to adapt.  

Students want and expect to know the expectations/time commitments they are involved in.  Certainly made to be virtually impossible when the AD adds to those at the drop of a hat.  And if the additions are not fulfilling (ie, one person at a soccer game, or two at a volleyball game) and are clearly for “show” to make the event look bigger…well, that creeps in as well.

 

yes,  all of the conversations about additional activities were had, repeatedly.  
 

in fact. The “agreements” were ignored, i fact one just several hours after! 

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

I just don't like being attacked. I agree with everything here, but legitimately there are multiple issues here and I'm not saying student mental health shouldn't be the focus of them because, above all, this is and should be a student experience. Billikenfan05 I know you're not the one doing it, but I just want people to stop acting like I'm some kind of class traitor here.

I think there's certainly a more nuanced way you could have approached it. I'm not even saying that you're saying "student mental health isn't important". I'm saying you have to base your complaint to align with the main reason for the complaint and then expand on it. Something like "beyond the main concern surrounding students, alumni in the band find the additions to the schedule stressful as well. Peter said it really well on the pod. "If someone told me I needed to be somewhere on 24-36 hour notice, I'd tell them there's no way! Between work and kids, sometimes I don't have an extra 5 minutes in the day."

[JohnnyJumpUp]

1 hour ago, dlarry said:

I’m not saying the band isn’t getting the shaft because it sounds like they are getting jerked around.

That said, stress and anxiety and changes to your schedule on a whim are part of life.

I am with you on this. I can't imagine that the increased expectations by asking them to play at more games and maybe some events, frequently on short notice (48 hours) would create a mental health issue. I can see that it could possibly worsen already established mental health issues that someone may have, but not actually create them. I could understand wanting scholarship opportunities for students to grow the band, more pay for the director, etc, but going the mental health route seems like a play that makes no sense to me. I'm not a doctor and maybe lack sympathy because I deal with constant increased expectations and frequently changing schedules, but I feel like that was the wrong angle to take, if DSB's post is accurate. 

[TheBand]

1 hour ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

I am with you on this. I can't imagine that the increased expectations by asking them to play at more games and maybe some events, frequently on short notice (48 hours) would create a mental health issue. I can see that it could possibly worsen already established mental health issues that someone may have, but not actually create them. I could understand wanting scholarship opportunities for students to grow the band, more pay for the director, etc, but going the mental health route seems like a play that makes no sense to me. I'm not a doctor and maybe lack sympathy because I deal with constant increased expectations and frequently changing schedules, but I feel like that was the wrong angle to take, if DSB's post is accurate. 

just remember you’re a fully-formed adult. These college students are between the age of 18-21/22.   Their brains aren’t even fully developed.  We tend to assume that they’re able to handle what we do, because we place them in adult situations. 
 

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know

[Billiken Rich]

58 minutes ago, TheBand said:

just remember you’re a fully-formed adult. These college students are between the age of 18-21/22.   Their brains aren’t even fully developed.  We tend to assume that they’re able to handle what we do, because we place them in adult situations. 
 

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know

I don't mean to sound uncaring but this is a volunteer gig with no grading to get messed up and really no consequences for blowing off?  There are full time employees that are "quiet quitting" by doing no work at work. 

I enjoy the band at basketball games and would miss the times at the game where the idiotically high bass from the house sound system isn't rattling the teeth in my head........