Recruiting - 2024

[Pistol]

1 minute ago, 3star_recruit said:

Before NIL we could at least land the occasional top 100 player.   Those days are over.  Our old-school whales are not interested in paying 100K for a high school player who hasn't accomplished anything.  And the rest of us together don't have that kind of money.

Can you imagine our whales ever adopting the mindset that spending 100K on the occasional Carteare Gordon is the cost of doing business?  I can't.

No, and Zac and I have talked about it on the show a few times, as well. I just don't think our top-tier donors have an NIL type of mindset. It's not true for all of them, but overall that's just not the vibe I get from them.

I'm just saying there's an opportunity for a school like SLU to find a lane to success. Power conferences are all expanding, locking up exclusive TV rights, going to 20-game schedules, playing only the worst teams and each other in non-conference games, and proposing new postseason tournaments. A new building isn't the way to overcome that.

[brianstl]

8 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Before NIL we could at least land the occasional top 100 player.   Those days are over.  Our old-school whales are not interested in paying 100K for a high school player who hasn't accomplished anything.  And the rest of us together don't have that kind of money.

Can you imagine our whales ever adopting the mindset that spending 100K on the occasional Carteare Gordon is the cost of doing business?  I can't.

They adapted to spending to spending $2.5 million on a coach that won one NCAA tournament game.  They can adapt, but it will take buy in from the administration.

[brianstl]

The thing that has me most frustrated is that they don't appear to even want to give it shot.  There has been really zero effort to rally small donors to NIL or to try to expand the NIL donor base in anyway.  The only reason why they made any announcement about tonight's event is because it didn't sell enough tickets among their preselected group earlier.  It would still be radio silence from the BVF if they just sold a few more tickets to their clique. 

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Thank you for your honesty.  I'm not sure what NIL dollar figures they're operating with either.  I do know the surviving Koch brother, who is the biggest donor to Wichita State athletics and who their arena is named after, is worth over $60 billion.  Gotta be nice.

And Wichita State hasn’t been the same since Gregg Marshall left. Koch money hasn’t kept the Shockers in the limelight. Perhaps in the now watered down AAC they can regain some level of status. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Is Link Academy in Hollister, MO (by Branson) on anyone's radar here?  Looks like a Christian Missouri version of IMG. They have the #1 ranked SG in the nation, Tre Johnson. The team is ranked #2 by Maxpreps & ESPN.

 

https://linkhoops.com/link-academy-overview

[3star_recruit]

11 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Is Link Academy in Hollister, MO (by Branson) on anyone's radar here?  Looks like a Christian Missouri version of IMG. They have the #1 ranked SG in the nation, Tre Johnson. The team is ranked #2 by Maxpreps & ESPN.

 

https://linkhoops.com/link-academy-overview

The players we would want from that team we can't afford.

[TheA_Bomb]

10 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The players we would want from that team we can't afford.

Yeah I figured just found it odd this school in Branson area is a basketball factory.

[Slowry]

17 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The players we would want from that team we can't afford.

We could if we weren’t spending so much money somewhere else.  

[3star_recruit]

1 minute ago, Slowry said:

We could if we weren’t spending so much money somewhere else.  

Marquette has the money now and even they're not playing that game.  Paying for prep school darlings is probably the most expensive route for acquiring high school players

[Slowry]

57 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Marquette has the money now and even they're not playing that game.  Paying for prep school darlings is probably the most expensive route for acquiring high school players

I know when Ford was hired it was and probably still is the norm to pay that much for a coach.  If I was SLU and the person paying his salary I’d be looking for a 1mil a year coach and spend 1.5mi on NIL.  Can’t tell me we wouldn’t field a top 20 team and fill the arena doing that.  But with coach Ford and the way NIL and transfers are now we won’t be truly competitive for a long time.  It’s what college basketball is now.  You either step up or live in the 75-150 range as a team.  I think SLU has chose the latter.  

[Compton]

2 hours ago, Slowry said:

I know when Ford was hired it was and probably still is the norm to pay that much for a coach.  If I was SLU and the person paying his salary I’d be looking for a 1mil a year coach and spend 1.5mi on NIL.  Can’t tell me we wouldn’t field a top 20 team and fill the arena doing that.  But with coach Ford and the way NIL and transfers are now we won’t be truly competitive for a long time.  It’s what college basketball is now.  You either step up or live in the 75-150 range as a team.  I think SLU has chose the latter.  

On average over the last three seasons we've been ranked better than 75th. At least in NET and KenPom.

[Taj79]

Can a school pay a player?  I thought NIL funds had to come from an entity outside the boundaries of the school itself.  

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Can a school pay a player?  I thought NIL funds had to come from an entity outside the boundaries of the school itself.  

No they can't.  Folks keep bringing up the contract that Travis Ford's agent negotiated prior to the existence of NIL as a pool of money that can be shifted to NIL.   No it can't.  The contract is the contract.

Boosters overpaid for a rising coach after a NCAA tournament appearance so they don't have that money to fund NIL now.  Life is a gamble.  The boosters lost.  We can't go back in time and tell rich people how to spend their money.  And they wouldn't listen anyway.

[Lord Elrond]

13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

No they can't.  Folks keep bringing up the contract that Travis Ford's agent negotiated prior to the existence of NLI as a pool of money that can be shifted to NLI.   No it can't.  The contract is the contract.

Boosters overpaid for a rising coach after a NCAA tournament appearance so they don't have that money to fund NLI now.  Life is a gamble.  The boosters lost.  We can't go back in time and tell rich people how to spend their money.  And they wouldn't listen anyway.

But you can shift how you spend money to get the same effect. Instead of paying a coach $2.5 mil, you hire a coach that you pay $1 mil, take the other $1.5 mil that you would have paid to the old coach and put it in a Capital Improvement Fund, and tell your boosters to donate to NIL instead.  All legal. Just one of many ways you could figure out how to shift the money being spent around legally, I’m sure there are others.
 

The real issue with doing this is Ford’s buyout. Unless you figure out a way to pay that, you are stuck letting him be your coach. Unless you want to pay him to do nothing, while you pay a new coach simultaneously. I can just hear the laughter coming from the BOT if someone proposed that they fund it. If a rich booster doesn’t open a checkbook, the contract has to run out.

[VeniceMenace]

10 hours ago, Compton said:

On average over the last three seasons we've been ranked better than 75th. At least in NET and KenPom.

SLU’s final KenPom rank last season was 96. A higher rank of 75 “on average” may be accurate, but the ranking — particularly defense, is trending down.

[billiken_roy]

40 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

No they can't.  Folks keep bringing up the contract that Travis Ford's agent negotiated prior to the existence of NLI as a pool of money that can be shifted to NLI.   No it can't.  The contract is the contract.

Boosters overpaid for a rising coach after a NCAA tournament appearance so they don't have that money to fund NLI now.  Life is a gamble.  The boosters lost.  We can't go back in time and tell rich people how to spend their money.  And they wouldn't listen anyway.

3 star, i admittedly dont know this, but i am guessing a lot if not all of ford's contract is paid by a booster(s) it might go through the school, but the point is the path of the same funds can be directed differently if true.  i.e. paid to the NIL if i am correct.

[billiken_roy]

20 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

But you can shift how you spend money to get the same effect. Instead of paying a coach $2.5 mil, you hire a coach that you pay $1 mil, take the other $1.5 mil that you would have paid to the old coach and put it in a Capital Improvement Fund, and tell your boosters to donate to NIL instead.  All legal. Just one of many ways you could figure out how to shift the money being spent around legally, I’m sure there are others.
 

The real issue with doing this is Ford’s buyout. Unless you figure out a way to pay that, you are stuck letting him be your coach. Unless you want to pay him to do nothing, while you pay a new coach simultaneously. I can just hear the laughter coming from the BOT if someone proposed that they fund it. If a rich booster doesn’t open a checkbook, the contract has to run out.

let's just hope that last year the automatic extension and pay raise that is rumored to be in ford's contract was given notice and did not happen last year.   one less year to worry about. 

[willie]

13 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

3 star, i admittedly dont know this, but i am guessing a lot if not all of ford's contract is paid by a booster(s) it might go through the school, but the point is the path of the same funds can be directed differently if true.  i.e. paid to the NIL if i am correct.

There is one issue that no one seems to talk about and that is the tax deductibility of contributions to the NIL. While I know the BVF says it is deductible the IRS has said not so fast. Now if a company hires a player to promote a product that would be a business expense. I assume this will eventually go to the courts. As an individual I would hate to give a contribution that was ultimately disallowed. 

[Lord Elrond]

6 minutes ago, willie said:

There is one issue that no one seems to talk about and that is the tax deductibility of contributions to the NIL. While I know the BVF says it is deductible the IRS has said not so fast. Now if a company hires a player to promote a product that would be a business expense. I assume this will eventually go to the courts. As an individual I would hate to give a contribution that was ultimately disallowed. 

At this point, I would assume a contribution to NIL is not tax deductible. A good question is going to be is paying a player to do nothing or next to nothing a legitimate business expense. Remember, anything a business claims as a legitimate business expense they have to prove it was a legitimate business expense. You just can’t deduct anything you would like to deduct as a business expense.  I don’t think anyone has tested the IRS in court over this, but I’m sure it’s coming.

[cheeseman]

17 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

At this point, I would assume a contribution to NIL is not tax deductible. A good question is going to be is paying a player to do nothing or next to nothing a legitimate business expense. Remember, anything a business claims as a legitimate business expense they have to prove it was a legitimate business expense. You just can’t deduct anything you would like to deduct as a business expense.  I don’t think anyone has tested the IRS in court over this, but I’m sure it’s coming.

You are correct contributions to a NIL fund is NOT deductible.  As far as a business deduction goes that will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I am not sure how you prove it is a cost of you doing business but maybe you can say that the business has season tickets which they use for clients and the tickets will only be useful if the team is good therefore the NIL payment is deductible - seems a stretch but who knows.

[Westy03]

6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

You are correct contributions to a NIL fund is NOT deductible.  As far as a business deduction goes that will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I am not sure how you prove it is a cost of you doing business but maybe you can say that the business has season tickets which they use for clients and the tickets will only be useful if the team is good therefore the NIL payment is deductible - seems a stretch but who knows.

Buying tickets to entertain clients is not deducible.  

[JMM28]

For NIL money to be deductible at all you'd have to go at it one of two ways. 

Dude is in your commercial. You're paying a talent fee for that. It is advertising. 

It is a membership fee for some sort of social organization. Like a BNI type setup where you're meeting other business people for betterment of business.

Donations to a collective are 0% deductible, won't be, and never should have been advertised as such. The NCAA and its member schools will lobby HARD against that because they don't want their collectives to be running the show. 

[cgeldmacher]

Money donated to a university that is used to pay a coach - TAX DEDUCTIBLE

Money donated to a NIL fund like the BFV - NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE

Money paid directly to a player for services through something like the Billiken Exchange - NOT TAX DEDUCTIBLE, but may be able to be written off as a business expense

Some are still having trouble with the difference between the BFV and Billiken NIL Exchange.  The BFV, which every school has a version of, is just collecting money to be used for pay for play.  The Billiken NIL Exchange is where an individual or a business can contact players directly and use that player to promote their business or perform a service.  The Exchange deal can be legit, or fake, such as show up to my car dealership for 15 minutes to sign autographs and walk away with a $20,000 check.  Either way, though, it should be considered a marketing expense to the business.

[cgeldmacher]

Also, neither the money for the BFV or the money paid to an athlete through the Billiken NIL Exchange can be handled by University.  People keep commenting as to why doesn't SLU do this or why don't they do that.  These entities are separate.  The Exchange is, I believe, something administered by the University to help facilitate proper contact between the student athletes and the booster wanting to pay them, wait, I meant to say, "utilize their services," but the University cannot be involved in any way in determining what happens with that money other than to make sure the few rules that exist are followed.

[TheA_Bomb]

There was a change a few years ago that limited some tax benefits for donations to ADs.  So not sure giving to the direct to AD is tax deductible anymore.

Not sure why JMM says a school would lobby against a collective being tax deductible. "Because they don't want them running the show" Of course there could be conflicts but like all things booster involved you gotta herd the cats to work together. 

Here's information from a Texas AD solicitation on the average cost of a student athlete.  Putting it her for reference.