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TF interview with Frank

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13 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

French was on 550 this pm.  Yes, he has been practicing FT.  Yes, he knows that he is leaving points on the floor.  Yes, he is ready to be a leader.  Yes, he is excited about the progress Goodwin and Thatch are making. Yes, he is excited about every newcomer. Yes, he thinks the 'outsiders' are selling this team short.

But nice to hear him.  This is the first time I have heard him interviewed.  A good speaker and a good representative of SLU.

There was also a great moment yesterday (twitter link here) of French speaking at a SLUnatics meeting where he had a great reaction what someone said Hargrove was going to win the dunk contest. French and Goodwin have really endured themselves as leaders of this team and its been enjoyable to watch. 

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I think every mid major coach believes the final 4 is doable after schools like WSU, Butler, Loyola, etc have done it.  I think we may have had a legit shot at it with Rick's boys, however, we just got some really tough draws. Probably the best shot was the '11-'12 team because we still had Kwamain. We gave MSU all they wanted, and had we got by them who knows. 

Things have to break just right for a mid to do it, but first and foremost is the talent. I think if we can keep this group of FR together going forward and add in a few key pieces, a decent big man for one, it's a possibility. Ford's filled in all the slots now they just need the experience and the commitment. 

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41 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I think every mid major coach believes the final 4 is doable after schools like WSU, Butler, Loyola, etc

Villanova, Georgetown, St John...

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1 hour ago, slu72 said:

I think every mid major coach believes the final 4 is doable after schools like WSU, Butler, Loyola, etc have done it.  I think we may have had a legit shot at it with Rick's boys, however, we just got some really tough draws. Probably the best shot was the '11-'12 team because we still had Kwamain. We gave MSU all they wanted, and had we got by them who knows. 

Things have to break just right for a mid to do it, but first and foremost is the talent. I think if we can keep this group of FR together going forward and add in a few key pieces, a decent big man for one, it's a possibility. Ford's filled in all the slots now they just need the experience and the commitment. 

yep, its best to a low seed and get the first round upset, gets much easier.  Plus it helps when you're next opponents also had upsets Loyola had a #7 seed for S16 and a #9 seed for elite 8.  But correct, unless you were an elite team, things have to fall your way.

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It's easier now because top teams aren't filled with upperclassmen. Honestly, I can see the Bills going to the Sweet 16 in 2021 if things break right. Goodwin, French as seniors. Players together for a long time. Nice mix of shooting, athleticism, size, and ball-handling. 

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17 minutes ago, Crewsorlose said:

It's easier now because top teams aren't filled with upperclassmen. Honestly, I can see the Bills going to the Sweet 16 in 2021 if things break right. Goodwin, French as seniors. Players together for a long time. Nice mix of shooting, athleticism, size, and ball-handling. 

Age is the advantage of teams where teams are built around 4 year players. More physical and smarter than a roster stuffed w/ one year wonders. 

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1 hour ago, Crewsorlose said:

It's easier now because top teams aren't filled with upperclassmen. Honestly, I can see the Bills going to the Sweet 16 in 2021 if things break right. Goodwin, French as seniors. Players together for a long time. Nice mix of shooting, athleticism, size, and ball-handling. 

At this point without seeing the freshmen play (and still not knowing what we have in guys like Hankton and Jacobs) it is hard to know the likelihood of that statement, but I do think we are really lined up for 2020-21 to be a big season (for the reasons you identified) where we are competing to win the A-10 and hopefully make some noise in March. So I agree, but will feel like I have better idea of what our future looks like (and the chances of 2021 being a Sweet 16 caliber team) come December.

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4 hours ago, slu72 said:

I think every mid major coach believes the final 4 is doable after schools like WSU, Butler, Loyola, etc have done it.  I think we may have had a legit shot at it with Rick's boys, however, we just got some really tough draws. Probably the best shot was the '11-'12 team because we still had Kwamain. We gave MSU all they wanted, and had we got by them who knows. 

Things have to break just right for a mid to do it, but first and foremost is the talent. I think if we can keep this group of FR together going forward and add in a few key pieces, a decent big man for one, it's a possibility. Ford's filled in all the slots now they just need the experience and the commitment. 

I think there were two "book-it" teams in the hypothetical history of SLU basketball:

1) If Hughes, for some unfathomable reason, decided to come back for his Sophomore year, that team had the pieces to go the final four. They lost so much when Hughes left though. 

2) If Rick was coaching the 2012-2013 team, they make the Final Four. I''ll go to my grave believing this. Altman so bewilderingly out-coached Crews in that game it hurts my whole body to think about. He had the perfect defensive game plan laid out for us and they executed it flawlessly. Crews made no adjustments and left those players out there flailing. That team was built to defend Russ Smith on that Louisville squad. Obviously, beating Duke in the Elite 8 is massive but, I'll roll the dice with Rick. 

 

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37 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

At this point without seeing the freshmen play (and still not knowing what we have in guys like Hankton and Jacobs) it is hard to know the likelihood of that statement, but I do think we are really lined up for 2020-21 to be a big season (for the reasons you identified) where we are competing to win the A-10 and hopefully make some noise in March. So I agree, but will feel like I have better idea of what our future looks like (and the chances of 2021 being a Sweet 16 caliber team) come December.

December might be a little early for all the new, and unproven, pieces to come together. Ford's history at SLU, however, does show his teams play a lot better come mid Jan thru season's end. 

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We are in uncharted territory. We've never had this many new faces and Coach Ford doesn't have a strong track record of experienced players making big jumps in production under his watch. Bess is pretty much it. Situation 2 robbed us of an opportunity to see that happen.

But even during Coach's eight year tenure at OK State there were probably three players who significantly improved after their sophomore year. That narrative needs to change.

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27 minutes ago, prebilliken said:

I think there were two "book-it" teams in the hypothetical history of SLU basketball:

1) If Hughes, for some unfathomable reason, decided to come back for his Sophomore year, that team had the pieces to go the final four. They lost so much when Hughes left though. 

2) If Rick was coaching the 2012-2013 team, they make the Final Four. I''ll go to my grave believing this. Altman so bewilderingly out-coached Crews in that game it hurts my whole body to think about. He had the perfect defensive game plan laid out for us and they executed it flawlessly. Crews made no adjustments and left those players out there flailing. That team was built to defend Russ Smith on that Louisville squad. Obviously, beating Duke in the Elite 8 is massive but, I'll roll the dice with Rick. 

 

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed. 

If he grabs the SLU hat, then I think Chris Carrawell (6'6") goes to SLU two years later instead of going to Duke, and Loren Woods (7'1") goes to SLU instead of going to Wake Forest and later Arizona. Both were teammates of White at Cardinal Ritter.

That would have meant that when Hughes played his one year at SLU, he would have had Woods at center, White as power forward, Carrawell at small forward, and Jamal Walker as a point guard.  That's at least a final four team if not a national champion.  Outside of Walker, all four other guys each played several seasons in the NBA.

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20 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed. 

If he grabs the SLU hat, then I think Chris Carrawell (6'6") goes to SLU two years later instead of going to Duke, and Loren Woods (7'1") goes to SLU instead of going to Wake Forest and later Arizona. Both were teammates of White at Cardinal Ritter.

That would have meant that when Hughes played his one year at SLU, he would have had Woods at center, White as power forward, Carrawell at small forward, and Jamal Walker as a point guard.  That's at least a final four team if not a national champion.  Outside of Walker, all four other guys each played several seasons in the NBA.

I NEED A TOWEL

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59 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed. 

If he grabs the SLU hat, then I think Chris Carrawell (6'6") goes to SLU two years later instead of going to Duke, and Loren Woods (7'1") goes to SLU instead of going to Wake Forest and later Arizona. Both were teammates of White at Cardinal Ritter.

That would have meant that when Hughes played his one year at SLU, he would have had Woods at center, White as power forward, Carrawell at small forward, and Jamal Walker as a point guard.  That's at least a final four team if not a national champion.  Outside of Walker, all four other guys each played several seasons in the NBA.

Does anyone know how close Ryan Robertson was to going to SLU? I thought I heard that SLU was his second choice behind Kansas.

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed.

I had the same expression on my face as his mom when he did that.

Seeing that happen makes me paranoid of any SLU recruits with hats in front of them when making their announcement, I cannot watch anymore, I will read about it on this site.

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed. 

If he grabs the SLU hat, then I think Chris Carrawell (6'6") goes to SLU two years later instead of going to Duke, and Loren Woods (7'1") goes to SLU instead of going to Wake Forest and later Arizona. Both were teammates of White at Cardinal Ritter.

That would have meant that when Hughes played his one year at SLU, he would have had Woods at center, White as power forward, Carrawell at small forward, and Jamal Walker as a point guard.  That's at least a final four team if not a national champion.  Outside of Walker, all four other guys each played several seasons in the NBA.

I remember reading on here a few years ago that Carrawell mentioned that he and Loren would've went to SLU if Jahidi did or transferred back.  Went to find the post to make sure I wasn't imagining that.  

 

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2 hours ago, slu72 said:

December might be a little early for all the new, and unproven, pieces to come together. Ford's history at SLU, however, does show his teams play a lot better come mid Jan thru season's end. 

I was looking at it more individually and likely having an idea whether the freshmen and guys like Hankton/Jacobs can play by conference play. Obviously by the end of the season we will have an even better idea.

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At the time period of White, Carawell, and Woods we were in CUSA and the Great Midwest. Both conferences were among the elite BB conferences. They could rival the Beast, ACC, and the Big 10. Even the A10 was a big time conference back then. I find it doubtful those type players would consider us today. With the exception of Gordon and JGood, we haven't seen any of the area's top talent wanting to stay at home. If we'd got any of the recent 4 stars, e.g. Cook, Tatum, Ramey, Snead et al stay here, we could be a Zaga, which we're gonna have to become to have a shot at keeping these kids at home. 

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46 minutes ago, SLURadioBoy said:

Does anyone know how close Ryan Robertson was to going to SLU? I thought I heard that SLU was his second choice behind Kansas.

this is pretty sure per conversations i had with charlie.  i was a huge ryan robertson fan and the billiken fandom would have loved him.  

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

this is pretty sure per conversations i had with charlie.  i was a huge ryan robertson fan and the billiken fandom would have loved him.  

Gibson will cute you 

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

I've said this before, but I love thinking about it.  Three years before Hughes committed, Jahidi White (6'9") out of Cardinal Ritter sat at a table with a SLU hat and a Georgetown hat in front of him.  The scheduled time for his announcement came and went.  After about twenty minutes, he reached down and grabbed the Georgetown hat.  His mother, sitting next to him, looked shocked and disappointed. 

If he grabs the SLU hat, then I think Chris Carrawell (6'6") goes to SLU two years later instead of going to Duke, and Loren Woods (7'1") goes to SLU instead of going to Wake Forest and later Arizona. Both were teammates of White at Cardinal Ritter.

That would have meant that when Hughes played his one year at SLU, he would have had Woods at center, White as power forward, Carrawell at small forward, and Jamal Walker as a point guard.  That's at least a final four team if not a national champion.  Outside of Walker, all four other guys each played several seasons in the NBA.

Following you down the offseason rabbit hole on this one.  Here are the state lines for the starters you mention for the 1997-98 season (obviously playing together their lines would look different):

C - Loren Woods - So - 7-1, 245lbs - 8.8 PPG, .401 FG%, 7.1 RPG, 2.3 BPG

PF - Jahidi White - Sr - 6-9, 290lbs - 10.5 PPG, .634 FG%, 8.3 RPG, 2.2 BPG

SF - Chris Carrawell - So - 6-6, 210lbs, 10.1 PPG, .482 FG%, 3.7 RPG, 1.1 APG

SG - Larry Hughes - Fr - 6-5, 184lbs, 20.9 PPG, .415 FG%, 5.1 RPG, 2.4 APG, 2.2 SPG

PG - Jamall Walker - Jr - 6-0, no weight listed - 6.1 PPG, .364 FG%, 2.2 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.3 SPG

This would undoubtedly be the best starting 5 in SLU history.  It is a bit lite on outside shooting for an elite team.  Carrawell & Walker hit good %, but didn't take a ton.  However, with a bench of Ryan Luechtefeld, Virgel Cobbin, and Troy Robertson you have shooting options to plug in.  That being said, I don't think it would be a lock for a final four much less a national championship (see below).

Kentucky (who beat SLU in real life in the 2nd round) won the NCAA tournament that year as a #2 seed.  Their lineup featured 6 players who would go on to play in the NBA (Jeff Sheppard, Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett, Wayne Turner, Jamaal Magloire, and Michael Bradley)  Other final four teams were #1 UNC (5 future NBAers - Antawn Jamison, Shammond Williams, Vince Carter, Makhtar N'Diaye, Brendan Heywood), #3 Utah coached by Rick Majerus (4 future NBAers - Michael Doleac, Andre Miller, Hanno Mottola, Britton Johnsen), and #3 Stanford (4 NBAers - Tim Young, Mark Madsen, Jarron Collins, Jason Collins - this doesn't include their top 2 scoeres Arthur Lee and Kris Weems).  Outside those 4 final four teams there were 3 other #1 seeds (Arizona - 5 NBAers, Duke - 5 NBAers, and Kansas 4 NBAers).

Also - small correction to your post - Chris Carrawell never played in the NBA let alone playing several seasons.  Hughes had by far the most successful NBA career of the 4.  Therefore, that hypothetical SLU team would've boasted *only* 3 future NBAers.

 

 

 

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Soderberg was on the right track by focusing on 3 star (Top 150-350) local players. He just wasn't a good enough salesman to get around West Pine. If he had managed to entice Jamaal Tatum and Matt Shaw to come before landing Lisch, Liddell and Vouyoukas, we would have gone to multiple NCAA tournaments. 

That's how Gonzaga and Xavier built their programs. 1) By stacking classes of 3 star recruits and 2) developing them.

 

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3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Soderberg was on the right track by focusing on 3 star (Top 150-350) local players. He just wasn't a good enough salesman to get around West Pine. If he had managed to entice Jamaal Tatum and Matt Shaw to come before landing Lisch, Liddell and Vouyoukas, we would have gone to multiple NCAA tournaments. 

That's how Gonzaga and Xavier built their programs. 1) By stacking classes of 3 star recruits and 2) developing them.

 

Others he missed on were Ahern and Harrelson. Instead we got the Obis and Dixons of the world. Brad actually could have been a Mark Few at SLU.  I don't think he would have bolted if he was successful here, because of the way UW dumped him. Sadly, he couldn't recruit or was a lousy evaluator of talent. 

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