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almaman

Bills Men's Basketball Playing Time 2019-2020 Thread

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This seems like good time to start thread that is a main topic of any hot stove off season discussion. It may help refocus some other threads.

We have 3 likely starters returning. French and Goodwin should  average 35 game. Lets assume Thatch does the same that leaves 95 minutes. Factor in fouls trouble, Fred maybe not so ready to step up to that degree and make it 100 minutes available.

I'll throw this allocation out there; 50 between Yuri and Terrence, 35 for Bell and Perkins. That leaves 15 minutes for Jacobs, Jimerson, Hankton and players to be named later. 

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Gotta think Jimerson is ready to contribute given that hes a 5th year player, proven scorer at a pretty high level, and body seems to be close to where it needs to be.  

Id go:

Jgood 6'3

thatch 6'3

perkins 6'7

Hargrove 6'7

French 6'7

..............first four off then bench

Jimerson

Yuri

Hankton

Jacobs

---------- next 2

Bell 

(open scholarship)

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1 hour ago, almaman said:

This seems like good time to start thread that is a main topic of any hot stove off season discussion. It may help refocus some other threads.

We have 3 likely starters returning. French and Goodwin should  average 35 game. Lets assume Thatch does the same that leaves 95 minutes. Factor in fouls trouble, Fred maybe not so ready to step up to that degree and make it 100 minutes available.

I'll throw this allocation out there; 50 between Yuri and Terrence, 35 for Bell and Perkins. That leaves 15 minutes for Jacobs, Jimerson, Hankton and players to be named later. 

considering our aversion to making shots, i would be shocked if jimerson splits 15 minutes with 2 other players next year.   i am thinking he alone will be a 20 minute guy if he is the shooter we see in his highlight video.  

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

Gotta think Jimerson is ready to contribute given that hes a 5th year player, proven scorer at a pretty high level, and body seems to be close to where it needs to be.  

Id go:

Jgood 6'3

thatch 6'3

perkins 6'7

Hargrove 6'7

French 6'7

..............first four off then bench

Jimerson

Yuri

Hankton

Jacobs

---------- next 2

Bell 

(open scholarship)

assuming we dont bring in a hot shot grad transfer, this is pretty good imo.   and i would bet jimerson and collins are going to play a lot.   i'd love for jacobs to get in the mix.   that is a lot of athlete just sitting.  

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Even with Bell, we are so dang thin up front for next year.  Our frontline currently consists of a werewolf upperclassman, an imposing but unpolished freshman and a thin but athletic freshman.  Hope 2 of the final 3 schollies are used on capable 4s or 5s.

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Just now, moytoy12 said:

Even with Bell, we are so dang thin up front for next year.  Our frontline currently consists of a werewolf upperclassman, an imposing but unpolished freshman and a thin but athletic freshman.  Hope 2 of the final 3 schollies are used on capable 4s or 5s.

As I said in a different thread, if Bell is our 2nd big, we're in trouble.  Still think we need a more polished player as the back up big. 

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20 minutes ago, wgstl said:

As I said in a different thread, if Bell is our 2nd big, we're in trouble.  Still think we need a more polished player as the back up big. 

i agree.   bell has the frame to turn into a monster.   but his body change is just too recent to expect much immediately.   i would love to be wrong.   but let's give the young man a chance to mature and grow into that frame with muscle plus learn to play basketball.   watching hasan french for a year will be a fabulous tutorial.  

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2 hours ago, almaman said:

This seems like good time to start thread that is a main topic of any hot stove off season discussion. It may help refocus some other threads.

We have 3 likely starters returning. French and Goodwin should  average 35 game. Lets assume Thatch does the same that leaves 95 minutes. Factor in fouls trouble, Fred maybe not so ready to step up to that degree and make it 100 minutes available.

I'll throw this allocation out there; 50 between Yuri and Terrence, 35 for Bell and Perkins. That leaves 15 minutes for Jacobs, Jimerson, Hankton and players to be named later. 

We seem to have Goodwin/Yuri ready to somehow split the 40 minutes at PG.   French will be a fixture at either the 4/5 for at least 30 minutes/game.   After that, everything appears to be wide open.

We seem to have 3 guys who play the 3 in Perkins, Jimerson and Hargrove - though Goodwin, Thatch and Hankton can play there as well.   And when Yuri plays, Yuri will need to play PG.  That means if Goodwin plays 35 minutes and Yuri plays more than 5 minutes per game, then Goodwin will need to play somewhere other than PG  -- which means either the 2 or the most crowed position - the 3.

Who ever can dribble and shoot will get alot of playing time at the 2.   Thatch may be the favorite now.  But for those wondering if/how much Jacobs will play, there is clear path available -- handle the ball and shoot the the 3 as I see 40 minutes up for grabs at the 2. 

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There are four open scholarships (includes Bell commit).  French, Goodwin and Thatch are a given for 25 plus minutes a game.  Beyond that it is silly to speculate at this point in time.  

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Need to quit thinking of players as 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5s.  We will play two bigs and three guys that are guards/wings.  Plus, are bigs won't always really be bigs.  With the way our roster is presently built Hargrove will get some of his minutes at one of the two bigs spots and I expect to have stretches when Goodwin is getting minutes at one of the big spots.

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24 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

There are four open scholarships (includes Bell commit).  French, Goodwin and Thatch are a given for 25 plus minutes a game.  Beyond that it is silly to speculate at this point in time.  

You hit the nail on the head, WV.  All incoming players new to D1 Basketball will have to adjust to the speed and strength of the players.  Whomever adapts quickest is going to be getting the minutes.  This team is still going to pride itself on defense, so their is going to be an acceptable standard of play before you see time on the court.

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54 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Jimerson can play the 2 or the 3.  So can Perkins.

MBM's get caught up in positions.  Was Bess as 2 or 3 or 4?  Was French a 4 or 5?  Was Foreman a 5 or 4?  Was Goodwin a 1, 2 or 3?  Wiley was what, a 2, 3 and 4?

Put your five man team best on the floor and let's play ball.

 

1 hour ago, WVBilliken said:

There are four open scholarships (includes Bell commit).  French, Goodwin and Thatch are a given for 25 plus minutes a game.  Beyond that it is silly to speculate at this point in time.  

For both of you, what is a reasonable expectation for Thatch.  His 4.3 ppg average won't cut it next year.  Double it?

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If you had to put numbers on positions I’d say the Bills will play 

1=point guard

4=big

4=big

and the 2 and 3 are interchangeable.

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27 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

MBM's get caught up in positions.  Was Bess as 2 or 3 or 4?  Was French a 4 or 5?  Was Foreman a 5 or 4?  Was Goodwin a 1, 2 or 3?  Wiley was what, a 2, 3 and 4?

Put your five man team best on the floor and let's play ball.

 

For both of you, what is a reasonable expectation for Thatch.  His 4.3 ppg average won't cut it next year.  Double it?

I'm sure Fred will get more opportunities to shoot next year as his role changes. How much more I have no idea. Too many unknowns about what the offense is going to look like.

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33 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

MBM's get caught up in positions.  Was Bess as 2 or 3 or 4?  Was French a 4 or 5?  Was Foreman a 5 or 4?  Was Goodwin a 1, 2 or 3?  Wiley was what, a 2, 3 and 4?

Put your five man team best on the floor and let's play ball.

 

For both of you, what is a reasonable expectation for Thatch.  His 4.3 ppg average won't cut it next year.  Double it?

I see Thatch as a 6th man again unless he can consistently hit the outside shot and handle the ball, not like a PG, but nearly like a PG.  Maybe  the 6th man even if he improves in those areas.    And I think his height and the competition keeps him from being a 3, SF.  But he will get plenty of minutes if he comes off the bench.  And that may be his most valuable role for the team.  Kind of like Jett was in his sophomore and junior years.

But it also depends who Ford brings in with the final 3 scholarships.  If he brings in a talented graduate transfer at the shooting guard position that might seal the deal for Thatch as the 6th man.  And that may be his most valuable position .... just an opinion.

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I really hope that Jacobs stays and is ready to split time with Yuri at point. I want Goodwin running back and forth on the baseline and cutting to the basket to get fed by French in the post. He has proven his value is offensive rebounding and being in the mix down low. He is the key to this team if he is able to crash the boards.

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21 minutes ago, BJK said:

I really hope that Jacobs stays and is ready to split time with Yuri at point. I want Goodwin running back and forth on the baseline and cutting to the basket to get fed by French in the post. He has proven his value is offensive rebounding and being in the mix down low. He is the key to this team if he is able to crash the boards.

Moving Goodwin off the ball and starting Yuri and Perkins in the backcourt would eliminate my primary concern about starting Yuri: having two nonshooters in the backcourt.  Considering the comparison to Marcus Smart was part of Ford's sale pitch to Goodwin, it would be an incredibly bold move.  In hindsight, Bess would have been better in that role but we needed him to be our defensive stopper as well as our part-time four man.  We're bringing in big men so that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

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1 hour ago, WVBilliken said:

I see Thatch as a 6th man again unless he can consistently hit the outside shot and handle the ball, not like a PG, but nearly like a PG.  Maybe  the 6th man even if he improves in those areas.    And I think his height and the competition keeps him from being a 3, SF.  But he will get plenty of minutes if he comes off the bench.  And that may be his most valuable role for the team.  Kind of like Jett was in his sophomore and junior years.

But it also depends who Ford brings in with the final 3 scholarships.  If he brings in a talented graduate transfer at the shooting guard position that might seal the deal for Thatch as the 6th man.  And that may be his most valuable position .... just an opinion.

I noted that Fred very seldom brought the ball up the floor, and never against a press.  He was used as an outlet, but never a main ball handler.  And Fred had the highest foul rate of many rotation player.  I think it was Earl Austin who said Fred tends to reach on D rather than move his feet.  Fred gave us 19.3 mpg, so stretching that to 25 mpg isn't that big of a stretch.  We will need him big time next season.  

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Moving Goodwin off the ball and starting Yuri and Perkins in the backcourt would eliminate my primary concern about starting Yuri: having two nonshooters in the backcourt.  Considering the comparison to Marcus Smart was part of Ford's sale pitch to Goodwin, it would be an incredibly bold move.  In hindsight, Bess would have been better in that role but we needed him to be our defensive stopper as well as our part-time four man.  We're bringing in big men so that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Javonte won't be able to defend at the level Ford wants at a guard position.  Offensively he would be fine there tho

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:49 PM, HoosierPal said:

MBM's get caught up in positions.  Was Bess as 2 or 3 or 4?  Was French a 4 or 5?  Was Foreman a 5 or 4?  Was Goodwin a 1, 2 or 3?  Wiley was what, a 2, 3 and 4?

Put your five man team best on the floor and let's play ball.

 

For both of you, what is a reasonable expectation for Thatch.  His 4.3 ppg average won't cut it next year.  Double it?

Fair point .... to a degree. A 2 rarely plays w his back to the basket, requires ball skills and defends smaller quicker guys while a 4 and 5 does the opposite. Some guys are better w their backs to the basket and some aren’t.  Without labels which u say are restrictive (fair point) how are we to identify or label to ensure complementary players.  And defensively, there is usually a huge difference in assignments between a 2 and a 3, between a 3 and a 4 and even between a 4 and a 5. 

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:02 PM, brianstl said:

Need to quit thinking of players as 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5s.  We will play two bigs and three guys that are guards/wings.  Plus, are bigs won't always really be bigs.  With the way are roster is presently built Hargrove will get some of his minutes at one of the two bigs spots and I expect to have stretches when Goodwin is getting minutes at one of the big spots.

Effin A

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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Fair point .... to a degree. A 2 rarely plays w his back to the basket, requires ball skills and defends smaller quicker guys while a 4 and 5 does the opposite. Some guys are better w their backs to the basket and some aren’t.  Without labels which u say are restrictive (fair point) how are we to identify or label to ensure complementary players.  And defensively, there is usually a huge difference in assignments between a 2 and a 3, between a 3 and a 4 and even between a 4 and a 5. 

Bess guarded just about anyone on the floor, with the normal exception of our opponents tallest player. Goodwin guarded anyone, including Toppin. Thatch took on any wing/guard out there. 

How many zones did we see?  A bunch of them. How many times did we play Zone?  A lot. Yeah a big guy in the middle is nice but after that you can go with your best other four. 

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9 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Bess guarded just about anyone on the floor, with the normal exception of our opponents tallest player. Goodwin guarded anyone, including Toppin. Thatch took on any wing/guard out there. 

How many zones did we see?  A bunch of them. How many times did we play Zone?  A lot. Yeah a big guy in the middle is nice but after that you can go with your best other four. 

You're right.  Those 2 could probably do that.  But Isabell could never guard a guy like French and French could never guard a guy like Isabell. 

Maybe next year our guys are more versatile than this year's lineup. Maybe next we run mostly interchangeable wings.   I have no problem getting away from the traditional notions of 1 thru 5 but I have already heard Jimerson cannot play the 2, that Perkins cannot a guard another 2, etc. 

Responsibilities on offense or defense do not change by removing labels.

 

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:02 PM, brianstl said:

Need to quit thinking of players as 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5s.  We will play two bigs and three guys that are guards/wings.  Plus, are bigs won't always really be bigs.  With the way our roster is presently built Hargrove will get some of his minutes at one of the two bigs spots and I expect to have stretches when Goodwin is getting minutes at one of the big spots.

Agreed, especially under TFord, who values versatility...that being said Jimmy Bell is most definitely a 5 and Yuri Collins a 1....the rest can play anywhere at times...

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