slufanskip Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 With a week until the next game this might be fun to discuss. With posters calling Thatch the best Billiken defensive guard ever and coach calling Bess the best on ball guard defender in the country it made me start thinking about how many good defensive guards the Bills have had over the years. 2 of my favorites were Jordair and John Redden. Love the way they could just get so physical with a player it took them out of their game. Neither were ultra quick but neither got beat off the dribble as their 1st step was just technically perfect and they were such smart defenders. Who were some of your favorite defenders and why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken4life5 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Mike McCall JUNOR...very underrated defender in my opinion. Completely neutralized a lot of opposing point guards. RUBillsFan, Zink, slufanskip and 2 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Begins and ends with Josh Fisher for me and I think Thatch will be better. Certainly as a freshman, Thatch is top five all time...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, Billiken4life5 said: Mike McCall JUNOR...very underrated defender in my opinion. Completely neutralized a lot of opposing point guards. McCall was the best we've ever had at getting around screens and denying an opposing player from even touching the ball. Credit Majerus for making him run through screens endlessly in practice and credit McCall for not giving up and transferring because of that. slufanskip, SLU_Lax and Zink like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 While not on the Mount Rushmore of Billiken defenders, Carlos McCauley was an excellent defender IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills73 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 John Redden has to be up there as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Begins and ends with Josh Fisher for me and I think Thatch will be better. Certainly as a freshman, Thatch is top five all time...... Until Thatch shuts down a future NBA All Star multiple times, it is Mr. Fisher for sure. TheA_Bomb, SLU_Nick, crymdg2 and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, HoosierPal said: Until Thatch shuts down a future NBA All Star multiple times, it is Mr. Fisher for sure. It's going to happen.....I'm calling it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, slufanskip said: With a week until the next game this might be fun to discuss. With posters calling Thatch the best Billiken defensive guard ever and coach calling Bess the best on ball guard defender in the country it made me start thinking about how many good defensive guards the Bills have had over the years. 2 of my favorites were Jordair and John Redden. Love the way they could just get so physical with a player it took them out of their game. Neither were ultra quick but neither got beat off the dribble as their 1st step was just technically perfect and they were such smart defenders. Who were some of your favorite defenders and why wouldn't say he was one of my favorites, but Anthony Jones was a pretty good defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Fisher always drew the top assignment and shut guys down every single night (see Wade, Dwyane). The only time I saw someone light him up was Chris Thomas from Notre Dame in the 2004 NIT game. It wasn't necessarily on Fisher, though. Thomas couldn't miss that night - fadeaways, NBA threes, etc. It was stupid. Redden always comes to mind. Defensive specialist. All the guards in the Majerus era, although McCall really stands out as probably the best from that time, if I had to pick one. So smart and steady. I think Lisch actually gets a little underrated defensively. I wish he could've had better circumstances around his career for a lot of reasons (namely the coaching switch at his midpoint), but he really impressed me as a defender. Bess is fantastic. I'm loving watching him defend this season. He's at Fisher's level in terms of getting the top assignment and shutting everyone down. Thatch is already a college senior-level defender. He'll be an all-time great defender here. brianstl likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Beat me to it! Yes, Jones was awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Josh Fisher he was quick enough and had a solid frame to be physical. Famously, shut down D. Wade. He was also pretty good at the end of games and efficient with the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Pistol said: Fisher always drew the top assignment and shut guys down every single night (see Wade, Dwyane). The only time I saw someone light him up was Chris Thomas from Notre Dame in the 2004 NIT game. It wasn't necessarily on Fisher, though. Thomas couldn't miss that night - fadeaways, NBA threes, etc. It was stupid. Redden always comes to mind. Defensive specialist. All the guards in the Majerus era, although McCall really stands out as probably the best from that time, if I had to pick one. So smart and steady. I think Lisch actually gets a little underrated defensively. I wish he could've had better circumstances around his career for a lot of reasons (namely the coaching switch at his midpoint), but he really impressed me as a defender. Bess is fantastic. I'm loving watching him defend this season. He's at Fisher's level in terms of getting the top assignment and shutting everyone down. Thatch is already a college senior-level defender. He'll be an all-time great defender here. Too easy to forget Lisch during the Majerus transition. You are right...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said: Josh Fisher he was quick enough and had a solid frame to be physical. Famously, shut down D. Wade. He was also pretty good at the end of games and efficient with the ball. the job fisher did on wade every time made me underestimate wade's pro potential. fisher was fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Drejaj hasn't been metioned yet. He was really good, but not close to tops with the likes of Bess, Jett, McCall & Fisher ahead of him for sure. H Waldman is our single season steals leader. That has to count for something and he was the best on D between Claggs, Highmark & him. I don't think anyone would argue he was the best though. Hughes is tops in steals for freshmen by a wide margin and #3 overall on the season list. His size and athleticism advantage while in college put him in the conversation, but again no one is going to say he was the best. Pistol likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: the job fisher did on wade every time made me underestimate wade's pro potential. fisher was fantastic. Exactly this. Now granted, I was a dumb kid at the time and didn't really understand the difference between what it takes to be a good in the NBA vs college. However, I remember not understanding how D Wade was a top 5 pick as a soph. and Travis Diener was a mid 2nd rounder as a senior. Diener was so much better in my mind because Fisher always shut Wade down and Diener always killed us. billiken_roy likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Anthony Jones, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said: Drejaj hasn't been metioned yet. He was really good, but not close to tops with the likes of Bess, Jett, McCall & Fisher ahead of him for sure. H Waldman is our single season steals leader. That has to count for something and he was the best on D between Claggs, Highmark & him. I don't think anyone would argue he was the best though. Hughes is tops in steals for freshmen by a wide margin and #3 overall on the season list. His size and athleticism advantage while in college put him in the conversation, but again no one is going to say he was the best. I thought about Drejaj and probably should've included him. I didn't think about Hughes or Waldman, though. Good points. One note about Hughes' steals record: Goodwin was going to be close if he didn't have to sit the last 7 games. He needed 17 steals in 7 games to tie and 18 to take the freshman record at 70. That's pretty much the pace he was on. Jett and Mitchell are above McCall on the all-time steals list, too. They're third, fourth, and fifth on the list, followed by Drejaj, Claggett, Lisch, LaTodd Johnson, and Jamall Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 "Offensively I’m trying to be more efficient so I don’t get too tired on defense. But defense is something that comes naturally." - Javon Bess HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE The fact that the dude is worried about his offense making his defense suffer, as our leading scorer, is just BADASS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, jimbofive said: "Offensively I’m trying to be more efficient so I don’t get too tired on defense. But defense is something that comes naturally." - Javon Bess HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE The fact that the dude is worried about his offense making his defense suffer, as our leading scorer, is just BADASS. This crossed my mind watching this last game. We don't seem to move much on offense, or move the ball very quickly. I wonder if the effort that they put out on the defensive end, has the team using the offensive possessions to catch their breath, so they can get back on defense and smother the other team again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Light Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Mike McCall was probably the best off-the-ball defender. Fisher and Jett were really good on the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Pistol said: I thought about Drejaj and probably should've included him. I didn't think about Hughes or Waldman, though. Good points. One note about Hughes' steals record: Goodwin was going to be close if he didn't have to sit the last 7 games. He needed 17 steals in 7 games to tie and 18 to take the freshman record at 70. That's pretty much the pace he was on. Jett and Mitchell are above McCall on the all-time steals list, too. They're third, fourth, and fifth on the list, followed by Drejaj, Claggett, Lisch, LaTodd Johnson, and Jamall Walker. I liked McCall also. Different kind of defender than Jett. Great off the ball and denying his man possession. Also great at staying in front of his man. Rarely got beat off the dribble. Jett was more aggressive, more of a gambler. McCall's ability to deny his man the ball and not get beat back door was fantastic. For me not that it's better but I just liked the physical nature of Jett and Redden. Fisher was more of a combination of McCall and Jett. Physical and deceptively quick. He was the total package as a defender. I see Bess in the same light. Not as physical as say Redden or as quick as McCall but an effective balance of both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGB91 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Jim Roeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiCAN Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I loved watching John Redden come in off the bench. You could watch opposing guards start to fall apart at the halfcourt line. Found this regarding the Conference USA tournament run: https://unewsonline.com/2000/03/16/reddensintensityguidesbillikensintourney/ "Redden entered the contest against Southern Miss seven minutes into the game. He provided increased pressure and helped the Bills to a 29-28 lead at halftime. When Redden entered the game in the second half, it was tied at 38. When he exited with six minutes left, the Bills held a four-point lead and were on their way to victory. Redden continued his inspired play against Cincinnati. After Kenyon Martin’s injury, Romar anticipated a run from the Bearcats. Redden helped hold the Bearcats in check the rest of the game. He pressured Cincinnati point guard Kenny Satterfield into six turnovers and held him to 16 points. Satterfield tried to make up for Martin’s lost points, but Redden shut him down. Redden added seven points and four assists to the Billikens’ offensive attack. His slashes and drives through the lane helped soften the Bearcats’ post defense and freed up Justin Love for open jumpers on the perimeter. Redden continued to increase his intensity and defensive pressure against Tulane. He helped shut down the Green Wave guards and created chaos in the backcourt. Redden spurred a Billikens’ defense that forced Tulane into 23 turnovers. He hit key free throws at the end of the game that helped SLU maintain its lead. Redden finished the game with seven points, all from the free-throw line. Redden saved his best effort for the championship game against DePaul. Redden smothered Blue Demon’s point guard Rashon Burno, holding him scoreless in 32 minutes. Redden’s effort frustrated Burno into fouling out. “It felt good to stop him. We knew he contributed a lot to their team. He brings great momentum for them. I wanted to try to keep him scoreless and try to stop that momentum,” Redden stated. Redden also had, according to coach Romar, the play of the game. DePaul had gained the momentum and was looking to cut SLU’s lead down even more. But Redden broke up an alley-oop pass by Burno, stole the ball and helped the Billikens regain control of the game." Pistol likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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