early saturday rambling roy in all lower case, no initials, who couldn’t care less about spelling and grammar errors.

[Duff Man]

silly NBA potential joking aside, this current team could badly use Kyle Cassity.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Roy, I have to disagree with the statement that the talent is lacking. I believe the talent is there, but the experience, strength, timing, and savvy are not. Some of you seem to want to compare the 2014 class's freshman year to the 2010 class's senior year.

I do agree that the juniors have been disappointing. However, the program continuity took a big hit after five players (six, really, with Grandy's injury) departed after last season. These players just haven't had time to develop the chemistry of a cohesive unit they way last year's squad had. Even the 2010 class had in front of them Conklin (2 letters), Cassity (2), Eckerle (3), Ellis (1), Salecich (1), and Remekun (1), for a total of 10 returning years of experience in the system. By comparison, The 2014 class has in front of them Manning (2), McBroom (1), Yacoubou (0), Crawford (1), Agbeko (1), and Lancona (1) for a total of six returning year of experience in the system. (I don't credit a transfer redshirt year, because practicing and being the scout team don't compare to game experience, and I credit manning with only two years, rather than three, because of the coaching change. Moreover, it's fair to observe that Coach Crews may not be quite as much of a stickler for details as Coach Majerus was, so that augments the former group's experience or diminishes the latter group's. Furthermore, the 2013 class got very little time last year, so they could all have their experience credit reduce by about third.) This year's freshmen have only about half as much to work with in their chemistry development as last year's seniors had when they were freshmen.

[slufan13]

It's not about comparing the teams but comparing the freshman classes. That class was better. Doesn't mean this class is bad though

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

I'm sold on Yarbrough and Roby

I'm going to frame this

and put it up next to

+10

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

silly NBA potential joking aside, this current team could badly use Kyle Cassity.

I forgot who got credit for the Cassity nba potential

[willie]

At this stage I'm not sure that class was better.

[slu72]

Agreed, to early to assess these 4 FR to the departed SRs FR year. But here's a standard; development. MM improved his D after RM started benching him his SO year. He took it to heart and improved immensely. JJ's O just kept getting better year by year. He never got the 3s but didn't to with his aggressive slashes that culminated in a POY his SR. year. No one saw that coming in his FR year. DE bulked up and became a mini, but better, BC. His JR. year he started to hit the mid range and won us the A10 tourney. The guy was the epitome of toughness. RL was a soft international, but by his SR year became a savvy BB player who did all the little things right and could hit the occassional 3 ball, which opponents had to respect.

This year's class. I'd say DR is equal to JJ with a better outside shot. Give him time to become more aggressive. MY more athletic than DE. If he find his midrange or 3 shot, we'll all be very pleased. MB a little behind MM in offense, equal to MM's freshman D. But more upside because he's 6'5". Bulk up young man and work on your perimeter shot. AG has to bulk up, but he's shown some smarts to date. He could end up better than RL.

My hope is they just keep it together and JC can add some missing pieces like a strong 4, a sniper, and a backup PG.

[brianstl]

Williams will probably start next year for this team if we land him.

[majerus mojo]

silly NBA potential joking aside, this current team could badly use Kyle Cassity.

Is that supposed to make KC look good? Who couldn't we use that graduated in the last 5 years.

[TheA_Bomb]

Crawford is better than Troy Robertson.

And it's Not even close. If T-Roy was passed the ball this game he might get a shot off next game. MC can drive and shoot 3. Drew Diener is better than T-roy And whiter.

I'm A fan of this freshman class, the rest of them outside MC, eh. I'm. Also a believerin Coach J-Crews i think he'll get it done

[jbizzle09]

I think if you compare the two classes side-by-side, the 2010-11 class isn't THAT far ahead of this class, and there really is reason to be optimistic about this current crop of freshmen having the same ability to lead this team to multiple NCAA appearances like the last one did.

I am going to only look at the top four freshmen of this class and compare them with their closest counterpart of the 2010-11 class. Jolly and Reynolds may still be contributors down the road -- I think Jolly has a better chance than Reynolds -- but for the sake of this comparison, they are being excluded. Through the respective teams' first 21 games, here's how the comparisons look:

Forward

Milik Yarbrough

10.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 1.6 TPG, 49.2 FG%, 16.7 3FG%, 56.8 FT%

Dwayne Evans

6.9 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 0.5 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.0 TPG, 49.0 FG%, 50.0 3FG% (2 attempts), 54.4 FT%

Guards

Marcus Bartley

4.0 PPG, 1.6 RPG, 1.9 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 1.2 TPG, 38.8 FG%, 40.5 3FG%, 58.3 FT%

Mike McCall

9.3 PPG, 1.8 RPG, 2.7 APG, 0.9 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 1.8 TPG, 43.4 FG%, 40.6 3FG%, 88.9 FT%

Davell Roby

5.2 PPG, 2.7 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 1.7 TPG, 38.2 FG%, 37.5 3FG%, 56.8 FT%

Jordair Jett

8.0 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.8 TPG, 42.1 FG%, 21.1 3FG%, 56.6 FT%

Center

Austin Gillman

3.8 PPG, 1.7 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.1 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 0.9 TPG, 51.6 FG%, 39.3 3FG%, 40.0 FT%

Rob Loe

6.1 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 0.7 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.4 TPG, 39.1 FG%, 33.3 3FG%, 64.0 FT%

Overall, I'd say it is fair to claim the 2010-11 freshman class was the better one of the two at the same respective points in the season. However, it is pretty close, IMO. Milik definitely has the best overall stats of all the players, and compared directly to Evans, was more productive scoring-wise while comparing favorably in shooting percentage and rebounds.

Meanwhile, McCall and Jett had more combined points, rebounds, steals and assists than Bartley and Roby, and by a pretty decent margin. However, Bartley and Roby have had fewer turnovers and Roby is a far better three-point shooter than Jett was, while Bartley and McCall's percentages from beyond the arc nearly identical.

As for Gillman to Loe, Loe would seem to be ahead there, though one can point out that Gillman's shooting percentages (sans free throws) are far superior to Loe's at the same time.

Unlike Roy, I feel very good about the talent level of this class. While it certainly sucks to watch home loss after home loss and winnable games be p!ssed away, I see a lot of hope for the future and go into each game with the attitude that these kids are learning the hard way and the close losses this year will turn into comfortable wins next year, just like we saw in 2011-12. Personally, I just can't buy into overwhelming negativity and the feeling that we are on the road towards a long period of mediocrity. I just don't see it, even with the lumps taken this season.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Bizzle, I think minutes per game should be listed in your comparison. Good stuff.

[West Pine Jim]

I think if you compare the two classes side-by-side, the 2010-11 class isn't THAT far ahead of this class, and there really is reason to be optimistic about this current crop of freshmen having the same ability to lead this team to multiple NCAA appearances like the last one did.

I am going to only look at the top four freshmen of this class and compare them with their closest counterpart of the 2010-11 class. Jolly and Reynolds may still be contributors down the road -- I think Jolly has a better chance than Reynolds -- but for the sake of this comparison, they are being excluded. Through the respective teams' first 21 games, here's how the comparisons look:

Forward

Milik Yarbrough

10.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 1.6 TPG, 49.2 FG%, 16.7 3FG%, 56.8 FT%

Dwayne Evans

6.9 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 0.5 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.0 TPG, 49.0 FG%, 50.0 3FG% (2 attempts), 54.4 FT%

Guards

Marcus Bartley

4.0 PPG, 1.6 RPG, 1.9 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 1.2 TPG, 38.8 FG%, 40.5 3FG%, 58.3 FT%

Mike McCall

9.3 PPG, 1.8 RPG, 2.7 APG, 0.9 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 1.8 TPG, 43.4 FG%, 40.6 3FG%, 88.9 FT%

Davell Roby

5.2 PPG, 2.7 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 1.7 TPG, 38.2 FG%, 37.5 3FG%, 56.8 FT%

Jordair Jett

8.0 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.8 TPG, 42.1 FG%, 21.1 3FG%, 56.6 FT%

Center

Austin Gillman

3.8 PPG, 1.7 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.1 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 0.9 TPG, 51.6 FG%, 39.3 3FG%, 40.0 FT%

Rob Loe

6.1 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 0.7 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.4 TPG, 39.1 FG%, 33.3 3FG%, 64.0 FT%

Overall, I'd say it is fair to claim the 2010-11 freshman class was the better one of the two at the same respective points in the season. However, it is pretty close, IMO. Milik definitely has the best overall stats of all the players, and compared directly to Evans, was more productive scoring-wise while comparing favorably in shooting percentage and rebounds.

Meanwhile, McCall and Jett had more combined points, rebounds, steals and assists than Bartley and Roby, and by a pretty decent margin. However, Bartley and Roby have had fewer turnovers and Roby is a far better three-point shooter than Jett was, while Bartley and McCall's percentages from beyond the arc nearly identical.

As for Gillman to Loe, Loe would seem to be ahead there, though one can point out that Gillman's shooting percentages (sans free throws) are far superior to Loe's at the same time.

Unlike Roy, I feel very good about the talent level of this class. While it certainly sucks to watch home loss after home loss and winnable games be p!ssed away, I see a lot of hope for the future and go into each game with the attitude that these kids are learning the hard way and the close losses this year will turn into comfortable wins next year, just like we saw in 2011-12. Personally, I just can't buy into overwhelming negativity and the feeling that we are on the road towards a long period of mediocrity. I just don't see it, even with the lumps taken this season.

+1. Atta boy, bizzle ! No more nattering nabobs of negative negativity !

[DeSmetBilliken]

I generally don't like comparing this year's team with the 10-11 team because this team doesn't have Kwamain Mitchell waiting on the bench to return the next year, or Cody Ellis working through an injury and playing the next year at full strength for the first time.

That said, I did think one a similarity between these teams yesterday. Both teams struggle with having someone step up and take the important shot. I don't know if SLU's last shot yesterday was that good or just the result of no one else shooting it, but I remember the 2010-11 team fumbling around in end game situations as well. Hopefully we get someone to say "give me the ball" in those clutch situations sooner rather than later.

[jbizzle09]

Bizzle, I think minutes per game should be listed in your comparison. Good stuff.

Agreed. Forgot to add that stat. Needless to say the 2010-11 class played more minutes at this point in the season.

[MB73]

novices often throw around 2 or 3 stats and think they nailed it, think they figured it all out. nope.

very important in the so called comparison are all kinds of other statistical factors, minutes per game, strength of schedule, etcetera, etcetera.

[kshoe]

Great post bizzle and good to have you back.

[jbizzle09]

Minutes per game for all the players being compared through their first 21 games.

Current class:

Davell Roby -- 22.6

Milik Yarbrough -- 23.0

Marcus Bartley -- 17.3

Austin Gillman -- 14.0

2010-11

Mike McCall -- 29.1

Dwayne Evans -- 20.6

Jordair Jett -- 25.2

Rob Loe -- 16.3

The only player who is playing more minutes now than their comparable player is Milik. Roby and Gillman are pretty close to their comparables while McCall blows Bartley out of the water at this point in terms of playing time.

Also, as far as SOS, the Bills were in the seventies in 2010-11. This year, depending on your source, SLU is in the low-100s.

[jbizzle09]

Novices often throw around 2 or 3 stats and think they nailed it, think they figured it all out. Nope.

VERY important in the so called comparison are all kinds of other statistical factors, minutes per game, strength of schedule, etcetera, etcetera.

Yeah, I missed you too.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Minutes per game for all the players being compared through their first 21 games.

Current class:

Davell Roby -- 22.6

Milik Yarbrough -- 23.0

Marcus Bartley -- 17.3

Austin Gillman -- 14.0

2010-11

Mike McCall -- 29.1

Dwayne Evans -- 20.6

Jordair Jett -- 25.2

Rob Loe -- 16.3

The only player who is playing more minutes now than their comparable player is Milik. Roby and Gillman are pretty close to their comparables while McCall blows Bartley out of the water at this point in terms of playing time.

Also, as far as SOS, the Bills were in the seventies in 2010-11. This year, depending on your source, SLU is in the low-100s.

Thanks for those stats Bizzle.

I was kind surprised by JJ and MM minutes. Kind of remember Cassidy and Salecich getting significant minutes at first. I guess Rick pulled the plug on that sooner then I thought.

That team had one major advantage. Although both slowed for health reasons, they had Cody Ellis & Brian Conklin. Also KM on the bench for the conference season. I am sure for practices the freshmen saw how good KM was and that was uplifting. I was kind of hoping Ash could fill that roll but just not yet. Also, if you look schedule, at the later part of February that team clicked. I am skeptical this will happen, we will see.

Maybe a better comparison is the 91-2 season, Rick Grawer's last season. That team also had a lot freshmen talent. Like that team's freshmen and the 10-11 freshmen, if MY. DR, MC (not a freshmen but high potential), MB, BJ & AG stick it out and knuckle down in the weight room this summer, they could at least equal or surpass those teams.

[Billfan78]

Cassity played a lot...

2010-11 SLU 31.5 3.1-7.2 .428 1.4-4.1 .328 0.9-1.3 .683 2.3 3.4 0.1 1.0 1.7 1.4 8.4

As I remember, McCall and Jett had to play a lot so SLU could score. No Kwamain or Willie and Conklin was very very far from what he became his senior year. Conklins improvement give me hope for Agbeko.

[ACE]

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20159

My favorite thread from the 10-11 season. Jett is called "Dwayne Polk with rasta dreds."

Wow, so much crazy stuff in this. You can clearly see who was on the wrong side of history. That thread is also a reminder of how much better this board has been the last couple of years than it was back then. Some of the board elders were way off about the direction the program was heading. Also a lot more trolls back then - 3Jack... what a tool. The chicken littles even questioning RM?!?! The stuff about WR and Sodie was hilarious. Interesting to note that about a month and a half after that board meltdown following a home loss to Dayton, the Bills turned around and beat Dayton at SVU, so progress was being made that season.

[Taj79]

Good stuff bizz. Welcome back. Can't wait to see these kids develop.

I think the one extraneous factor missing in all this is the coach. And I don't know what that means -- maybe a lot,maybe nothign at all. We shall see.

[TheChosenOne]

Wow, so much crazy stuff in this. You can clearly see who was on the wrong side of history. That thread is also a reminder of how much better this board has been the last couple of years than it was back then. Some of the board elders were way off about the direction the program was heading. Also a lot more trolls back then - 3Jack... what a tool. The chicken littles even questioning RM?!?! The stuff about WR and Sodie was hilarious. Interesting to note that about a month and a half after that board meltdown following a home loss to Dayton, the Bills turned around and beat Dayton at SVU, so progress was being made that season.

Fans question coaches during/after bad games/seasons, not surprising. Hindsight is 20/20.

[moytoy12]

Wow, so much crazy stuff in this. You can clearly see who was on the wrong side of history. That thread is also a reminder of how much better this board has been the last couple of years than it was back then. Some of the board elders were way off about the direction the program was heading. Also a lot more trolls back then - 3Jack... what a tool. The chicken littles even questioning RM?!?! The stuff about WR and Sodie was hilarious. Interesting to note that about a month and a half after that board meltdown following a home loss to Dayton, the Bills turned around and beat Dayton at SVU, so progress was being made that season.

I blame Box for RM's untimely passing. See post #41 in that thread.