View from Afar

[Taj79]

Why are we so f----g bad????? How can we take reputed high-end high school players and reduce them to athletic rubble when they put on the Blue-and-White???? Pete Gillen and Tom Brennerman (I think) had the call on CBSCS last night. When our opening game highlight foucses on the offensive dynamo that is Brian Conklin, we are screwed. I expected nothing last night and we met my expectations and delivered. I love Brian's heart and moxie but great athlete he ain't. Staten went around every Billiken at will. Gillen kept pumping Jett on being a 1,000 point scorer in a good high school who turned down Marquette, Baylor and some other high end team and he then proceeded to dribble a ball off his elbow at mid-court for an unforced turnover. Then Gillen said he was really not a true point but more of a combo guard. A combo guard who can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass and can't guard anybody????? Ummm -yes, I want more of them!!! Dwayne Polk in rasta dreds. Before the game Gillen also said the coaching staff was telling Evans they needed his athleticism for this game. I'm assuming because he is our only real athlete who can run with that Dayton bunch? And then he plays nine --- NINE -- minutes. Remekun has no clue. Salecich is a laibility. Starting Paul Eckerle sums it all up. If he's one of our five best --- SCREWED! Chris Wright embarrassed every one of our "athletes" and as someone else said, he isn't quite NBA material. Did Conklin even make an attempt at the opening tip? Not that the opening tip matters --- just symbolic I guess.

Gillen said Moser directed that the bench stand and cheer as it di last night. Sounds like a great high school move. What did I like? Loe's effort at times. McCall has a future. Evans has potential. Jett, Remekun, Salescich and Eckerle add little to nothing. Conklin and Cassity have valuable roles but as go-to players, they ain't it. Ellis battled and showed grit and enthusiasm but is a spot up bomber who is not in game shape (due to illness?) right now. Wright, Benson and even Searcy outdistanced our entire roster in pure athleticism --- and I'm not even adding Johson, Williams, Staten and the transfer from Drake.

Temple will brutalize us this Sunday --- not only are they atheltic and brutish, their smallest starter is 6'4". And that's Fernandez. Gillen and Brennerman did make mention of Reed and Mitchell, multiple times. They said Mitchell was at practice either yesterday or the day before. They said they will be back but will likely redshirt. Also said Biondi WILL get a Top 50 program. My arse!

Moser and Harriman appeared to coach. But this team is a bunch of three-point bombers looking for any vague appearance of an open shot. When they went down in Cancun against SoMiss, great. But with our talent level, I expect more of last night than I do the rare occassion we are making shots and staying in games. This was an expected disappointment. Why put this product on TV???

I fully believe that this group of players, together as planned, with Reed and Mitchell, would be able to ocntend in the A10 --- no matter the A10's level. In that scenario ---- Conklin, Cassity, Remekun and Salescich are role players, Loe and Ellis have shooting roles, Willie defends the end line and rebounds, Mitchell runs the offense and trains up McCall and/or Jett, Evans develops at a patient pace and Eckerle leads the cheers from the far end of the bench or from the coach-in-waiting spot next to Majerus. It is a fragile scenario that gets upended by an ineligibilty, broken ankle, or player defection.

Oh --- did I mention suspensions???? All this season is good for is OJT --- On-the-job- training. Here's hoping they don't learn bad habits.

Majerus. Anyone else see an infected leg as a certain opportunity?

[jimbofive]

Why are we so f----g bad????? How can we take reputed high-end high school players and reduce them to athletic rubble when they put on the Blue-and-White???? Pete Gillen and Tom Brennerman (I think) had the call on CBSCS last night. When our opening game highlight foucses on the offensive dynamo that is Brian Conklin, we are screwed. I expected nothing last night and we met my expectations and delivered. I love Brian's heart and moxie but great athlete he ain't. Staten went around every Billiken at will. Gillen kept pumping Jett on being a 1,000 point scorer in a good high school who turned down Marquette, Baylor and some other high end team and he then proceeded to dribble a ball off his elbow at mid-court for an unforced turnover. Then Gillen said he was really not a true point but more of a combo guard. A combo guard who can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass and can't guard anybody????? Ummm -yes, I want more of them!!! Dwayne Polk in rasta dreds. Before the game Gillen also said the coaching staff was telling Evans they needed his athleticism for this game. I'm assuming because he is our only real athlete who can run with that Dayton bunch? And then he plays nine --- NINE -- minutes. Remekun has no clue. Salecich is a laibility. Starting Paul Eckerle sums it all up. If he's one of our five best --- SCREWED! Chris Wright embarrassed every one of our "athletes" and as someone else said, he isn't quite NBA material. Did Conklin even make an attempt at the opening tip? Not that the opening tip matters --- just symbolic I guess.

Gillen said Moser directed that the bench stand and cheer as it di last night. Sounds like a great high school move. What did I like? Loe's effort at times. McCall has a future. Evans has potential. Jett, Remekun, Salescich and Eckerle add little to nothing. Conklin and Cassity have valuable roles but as go-to players, they ain't it. Ellis battled and showed grit and enthusiasm but is a spot up bomber who is not in game shape (due to illness?) right now. Wright, Benson and even Searcy outdistanced our entire roster in pure athleticism --- and I'm not even adding Johson, Williams, Staten and the transfer from Drake.

Temple will brutalize us this Sunday --- not only are they atheltic and brutish, their smallest starter is 6'4". And that's Fernandez. Gillen and Brennerman did make mention of Reed and Mitchell, multiple times. They said Mitchell was at practice either yesterday or the day before. They said they will be back but will likely redshirt. Also said Biondi WILL get a Top 50 program. My arse!

Moser and Harriman appeared to coach. But this team is a bunch of three-point bombers looking for any vague appearance of an open shot. When they went down in Cancun against SoMiss, great. But with our talent level, I expect more of last night than I do the rare occassion we are making shots and staying in games. This was an expected disappointment. Why put this product on TV???

I fully believe that this group of players, together as planned, with Reed and Mitchell, would be able to ocntend in the A10 --- no matter the A10's level. In that scenario ---- Conklin, Cassity, Remekun and Salescich are role players, Loe and Ellis have shooting roles, Willie defends the end line and rebounds, Mitchell runs the offense and trains up McCall and/or Jett, Evans develops at a patient pace and Eckerle leads the cheers from the far end of the bench or from the coach-in-waiting spot next to Majerus. It is a fragile scenario that gets upended by an ineligibilty, broken ankle, or player defection.

Oh --- did I mention suspensions???? All this season is good for is OJT --- On-the-job- training. Here's hoping they don't learn bad habits.

Majerus. Anyone else see an infected leg as a certain opportunity?

wish i could disagree with any of that.

[moytoy12]

Michell runs the offense and trains up McCall and/or Jett...

Interesting choice of words...

[MB73]

Why are we so f----g bad????? How can we take reputed high-end high school players and reduce them to athletic rubble when they put on the Blue-and-White???? Pete Gillen and Tom Brennerman (I think) had the call on CBSCS last night. When our opening game highlight foucses on the offensive dynamo that is Brian Conklin, we are screwed. I expected nothing last night and we met my expectations and delivered. I love Brian's heart and moxie but great athlete he ain't. Staten went around every Billiken at will. Gillen kept pumping Jett on being a 1,000 point scorer in a good high school who turned down Marquette, Baylor and some other high end team and he then proceeded to dribble a ball off his elbow at mid-court for an unforced turnover. Then Gillen said he was really not a true point but more of a combo guard. A combo guard who can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass and can't guard anybody????? Ummm -yes, I want more of them!!! Dwayne Polk in rasta dreds. Before the game Gillen also said the coaching staff was telling Evans they needed his athleticism for this game. I'm assuming because he is our only real athlete who can run with that Dayton bunch? And then he plays nine --- NINE -- minutes. Remekun has no clue. Salecich is a laibility. Starting Paul Eckerle sums it all up. If he's one of our five best --- SCREWED! Chris Wright embarrassed every one of our "athletes" and as someone else said, he isn't quite NBA material. Did Conklin even make an attempt at the opening tip? Not that the opening tip matters --- just symbolic I guess.Gillen said Moser directed that the bench stand and cheer as it di last night. Sounds like a great high school move. What did I like? Loe's effort at times. McCall has a future. Evans has potential. Jett, Remekun, Salescich and Eckerle add little to nothing. Conklin and Cassity have valuable roles but as go-to players, they ain't it. Ellis battled and showed grit and enthusiasm but is a spot up bomber who is not in game shape (due to illness?) right now. Wright, Benson and even Searcy outdistanced our entire roster in pure athleticism --- and I'm not even adding Johson, Williams, Staten and the transfer from Drake.

Temple will brutalize us this Sunday --- not only are they atheltic and brutish, their smallest starter is 6'4". And that's Fernandez. Gillen and Brennerman did make mention of Reed and Mitchell, multiple times. They said Mitchell was at practice either yesterday or the day before. They said they will be back but will likely redshirt. Also said Biondi WILL get a Top 50 program. My arse!

Moser and Harriman appeared to coach. But this team is a bunch of three-point bombers looking for any vague appearance of an open shot. When they went down in Cancun against SoMiss, great. But with our talent level, I expect more of last night than I do the rare occassion we are making shots and staying in games. This was an expected disappointment. Why put this product on TV???

I fully believe that this group of players, together as planned, with Reed and Mitchell, would be able to ocntend in the A10 --- no matter the A10's level. In that scenario ---- Conklin, Cassity, Remekun and Salescich are role players, Loe and Ellis have shooting roles, Willie defends the end line and rebounds, Mitchell runs the offense and trains up McCall and/or Jett, Evans develops at a patient pace and Eckerle leads the cheers from the far end of the bench or from the coach-in-waiting spot next to Majerus. It is a fragile scenario that gets upended by an ineligibilty, broken ankle, or player defection.

Oh --- did I mention suspensions???? All this season is good for is OJT --- On-the-job- training. Here's hoping they don't learn bad habits.

Majerus. Anyone else see an infected leg as a certain opportunity?

What are you crying about? It's all about WR & KM. What would any reasonable knowledgeable fan expect?

We are the 6th youngest team in NCAA D-1 (300+ teams). Most of the time we have at least 3 freshmen on the floor. Sometimes, 4. We played a solid veteran 12-3 team that won the NIT last year (lost a player or two).

I was there, it was hard to watch.

BRUTAL of you to say RM's infected leg as an opportunity. If it wasn't for "the situation" we would be top 30-40 team this yr. Blame DuBourg Hall, Father B, not RM. Brutal.

[Taj79]

What am I crying about? While I do indeed recognize this is about what's missing, I am sick and tired of the fact that our recruits are what appear to be "overhyped." The reference to Loe as "the jewell of the Pacific?" Salescich and Ellis as mainstays of some noted international outift? McCall as one of the top three players in Illinois? The state that includes the great hotbed of Chicago. Conklin as an Oregon state player of the year. Cassity had nice pub. And so on for years before this. They get to Saint Louis Univeristy and suck. Like many before them, too numerous to mention so I won't bore you.

But I for one and sick and tired of it. I understand that as you progress to each level above you, the talent gets tougher and tougher but come on! Is the talent at places like Bolwing Green, Austin Peay and Portland that much better? Okay .. Portland we played at their place.

And when do we get to lose the "X youngest team in captivity" tagline????? It doesn't seem to bother teams like Kentucky, Memphis and others and I do recognize we ain't those programs but COME ON!!!!!! I am tired of it.

That's what I'm crying about. Thanks for asking.

[Taj79]

As for the BRUTAL comment on the leg ... I wasn't thinking the opportunity was on our side of the ledger .. but his. I mentioned in an earlier thread his eccentricity and him tossing in the towel for whatever reason, however paltrey. This appears to be a reason anyone could extrapolate out to an end. Let me be clear: I am not for this, just saying ......

I want Majerus to finish what he started (Gillen said he could be here another 10 or 20 years as easy as five or less and Moser is the great and obvious replacement) because I feel still that if he does that, we WILL finally achieve success. Maybe short-lived but success nonetheless.

[bonwich]

his eccentricity and him tossing in the towel

Another interesting choice of words.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Gillen said Moser directed that the bench stand and cheer as it di last night. Sounds like a great high school move.

As soon as Gillen said this, the sideline official kept waving for them to sit down. Sweet irony.

[billiken_roy]

this whole thread is just boggling. i mean, all i have read for four years is that this is the deepest and most talented roster and best recruited the program has seen in billiken history. i just refuse to believe that i reality it is just the same ole same ole where everything comes down to just two players. why wasnt it just a couple of days ago where there were a couple of posters claiming next year with barnett and reed and mitchell coming back we would just be "loaded"? loaded to me would infer entire roster stacked. not just 3 players. no way your take is true taj. we are loaded. and our losing streak is all about rickma being ill.

[3Jack]

What are you crying about? It's all about WR & KM. What would any reasonable knowledgeable fan expect?

We are the 6th youngest team in NCAA D-1 (300+ teams). Most of the time we have at least 3 freshmen on the floor. Sometimes, 4. We played a solid veteran 12-3 team that won the NIT last year (lost a player or two).

I was there, it was hard to watch.

BRUTAL of you to say RM's infected leg as an opportunity. If it wasn't for "the situation" we would be top 30-40 team this yr. Blame DuBourg Hall, Father B, not RM. Brutal.

6th youngest team in D1?? You got a link to that??? The Bills started 3 Juniors, a sophmore and 1 freshman last night. That is hardly young by today's standards. What the heck makes you think this team would be top 30-40 with WR and KM? They are good but they are not that good. This team even with those guys would be lucky to make the NIT. The talent level is awful.

[DirtyRican]

Gillen said Moser directed that the bench stand and cheer as it di last night. Sounds like a great high school move.

As soon as Gillen said this, the sideline official kept waving for them to sit down. Sweet irony.

I found that funny as well. I used to hate Gillen but after last night I want him as our coach.

[Bobby Metzinger]

I found that funny as well. I used to hate Gillen but after last night I want him as our coach.

Me too, especially since I googled him and this popped up:

[Bay Area Billiken]

this whole thread is just boggling. i mean, all i have read for four years is that this is the deepest and most talented roster and best recruited the program has seen in billiken history. i just refuse to believe that i reality it is just the same ole same ole where everything comes down to just two players. no way.

The Missing Two were the two best players. KM was the QB, the point guard, the primary ball handler and shot taker at crunch time; WR was SLU's last line of defense, as my roommate at SLU called him, SLU's "Goalie." I was at the GW game in STL their freshman year. WR blocked a shot at one end, ran the floor, and dunked at the other end. It brought me out of my seat. I thought that SLU has needed Willie my whole life.

The rest of the players are either complimentary types, role players, or young freshmen.

As someone said, the heart (KM) and soul (WR) have been taken away from the team.

We need them back, immediately if not sooner, and keep the redshirts in the closet.

[SShoe]

6th youngest team in D1?? You got a link to that??? The Bills started 3 Juniors, a sophmore and 1 freshman last night. That is hardly young by today's standards. What the heck makes you think this team would be top 30-40 with WR and KM? They are good but they are not that good. This team even with those guys would be lucky to make the NIT. The talent level is awful.

Check under Pomeroy's "Experience" category. By his calculation, we're the 338th most experienced team, which indicates to me that MB's statement is supportable.

My link

[Box and Won]

I found that funny as well. I used to hate Gillen but after last night I want him as our coach.

He sounded like HE wanted to be our coach last night.

[Bobby Metzinger]

He sounded like HE wanted to be our coach last night.

Do you think Gillen has the itch to get back into coaching?

[Band Legend]

Look, when every player on the team is moved up two spots from the role they are supposed to assume on a team, they're all going to suck, at least for a little while. I am as sick as anybody is about this whole season, and I honestly don't know whether I want to keep going to the games and have my guts ripped out, but many of our players are very talented. Has anybody ever thought about the mental toll this situation has exerted on the entire team? You were supposed to be great and all of the sudden you blow, and you can't climb out of the hole. If we Billiken.com members have completely lost it, imagine how the team feels. At this point we are the Brooklyn Dodgers: Wait until next year!

[3Jack]

Check under Pomeroy's "Experience" category. By his calculation, we're the 338th most experienced team, which indicates to me that MB's statement is supportable.

My link

If that is the link he should have said 6th least experienced team in D1 not the 6th youngest. A team that starts 3 juniors is not young.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Look, when every player on the team is moved up two spots from the role they are supposed to assume on a team, they're all going to suck, at least for a little while. I am as sick as anybody is about this whole season, and I honestly don't know whether I want to keep going to the games and have my guts ripped out, but many of our players are very talented. Has anybody ever thought about the mental toll this situation has exerted on the entire team? You were supposed to be great and all of the sudden you blow, and you can't climb out of the hole. If we Billiken.com members have completely lost it, imagine how the team feels. At this point we are the Brooklyn Dodgers: Wait until next year!

And that's why I wonder if the players would want Mitchell and Reed to redshirt THIS YEAR.

[bonwich]

At this point we are the Brooklyn Dodgers: Wait until next year!

We aspire to be the Brooklyn Dodgers. At this point, we're the Chicago Cubs.

[2010andBeyond]

I think taj touched on something in his rant that holds true. Right now, this is a team of role players. Many are being asked to play outside of the roles in which they are comfortable. I.e. Ellis and loe playing down low, freshman starting at pt guard, conklin starting at the 5, cassity being relied upon as the go-to scorer...etc. The situation created a seismic shift on the dynamics of the team that we were ill equipped to handle.

I disagree with taj on his comments that they suck or have no talent (cs and cr might fit the bill). This team had its core ripped out. they couldn't handle it. Its disappointing and hard to watch, but not unexpected.

[3Jack]

I'm amazed at the slack Majerus gets on this board. Yes he lost Mitchell and Reed, but for this team to be this bad in his 4th year is ridiculous. Guys get hurt, guys transfer and guys get suspended. It happens everywhere and the bottem doesn't have to drop out on the program. If Majerus is such a great recruiter what the heck are we looking at on the court? Where is the potential? He's paid a lot of money to bring in players and develop them. Not just 2 players but a team of players.

[SShoe]

If that is the link he should have said 6th least experienced team in D1 not the 6th youngest. A team that starts 3 juniors is not young.

We don't start 3 juniors. Paul has started 1 game this year and generally plays the least amount of minutes of anybody. Normally, we start at least 2 freshmen, 1 sophomore, and 2 juniors, though we've also has a starting rotation of 4 freshman and 1 junior on multiple occasions.

Experience and youth are closely connected, so I think using that statistic is a very good way to judge the overall youth of the team.

Do you have a stat that would back up your claim that we're not one of the youngest (least experienced) teams in the country?

[Taj79]

I have been accused of lobbing hand grenades and running before the sharpnel rains down ....... okay, GUILTY.

While I might avoid the sharpnel, I do not believe I run and hide. I am trying to spur discussion and maybe some of the words are harsh. If so, I will stop despising the shock jocks for doing what they do as I am thereby no better. Love Band Legends response. Excellent points.

If our players are as talented as some sya, if our players are as accomplished as the media reports claim, if our talent level is as great as some would have us believe ...... WTF is the answer to what I'm seeing on the tube????

Let me repeat myself from the summer ... when I asked who on this team would shoot --- even when we expected Mitchell and Reed to play. I believe if KM drives and dishes, KC, CE, RL, MM and even CS and PE have better, more wide open and more makable looks. I believe if WR is standin gon the backline, playing goalie as Bay Area states, the inability of our current guards to guard is lessen because of the big flyswatter on the blocks.

But still ... if talent is indeed present on this roster, shouldn't it rise to the top and compensate for roster losses?

[Bobby Metzinger]

I have been accused of lobbing hand grenades and running before the sharpnel rains down ....... okay, GUILTY.

While I might avoid the sharpnel, I do not believe I run and hide. I am trying to spur discussion and maybe some of the words are harsh. If so, I will stop despising the shock jocks for doing what they do as I am thereby no better. Love Band Legends response. Excellent points.

If our players are as talented as some sya, if our players are as accomplished as the media reports claim, if our talent level is as great as some would have us believe ...... WTF is the answer to what I'm seeing on the tube????

Let me repeat myself from the summer ... when I asked who on this team would shoot --- even when we expected Mitchell and Reed to play. I believe if KM drives and dishes, KC, CE, RL, MM and even CS and PE have better, more wide open and more makable looks. I believe if WR is standin gon the backline, playing goalie as Bay Area states, the inability of our current guards to guard is lessen because of the big flyswatter on the blocks.

But still ... if talent is indeed present on this roster, shouldn't it rise to the top and compensate for roster losses?

I think the lack of any JUCO presence kills us too.