early saturday rambling roy in all lower case, no initials, who couldn’t care less about spelling and grammar errors.

[For-DaLove]

Wow, so much crazy stuff in this. You can clearly see who was on the wrong side of history. That thread is also a reminder of how much better this board has been the last couple of years than it was back then. Some of the board elders were way off about the direction the program was heading. Also a lot more trolls back then - 3Jack... what a tool. The chicken littles even questioning RM?!?! The stuff about WR and Sodie was hilarious. Interesting to note that about a month and a half after that board meltdown following a home loss to Dayton, the Bills turned around and beat Dayton at SVU, so progress was being made that season.

That thread is hilarious. Taj freaking out (huge surprise), guys like Moytoy questioning Majerus. Just hilarious stuff. It's pretty comical how much MB gets on this board but he's actually a voice of reason and right more than most people.

[MB73]

That thread is hilarious. Taj freaking out (huge surprise), guys like Moytoy questioning Majerus. Just hilarious stuff. It's pretty comical how much ###### MB gets on this board but he's actually a voice of reason and right more than most people.

save time.

ask MB73.

[ARon]

To the point of whether or not Yarborough can be a #1 star style player, I agree that he is not there right now. However I am encouraged by what I hear about him and his desire to learn. He may be the team's biggest weapon right now (personally I think Crawford would be if used better), and that could go to his head. But it sounds like he understands that he has a lot to learn and is up for it.

I also want to see him used at the 3 next year. We know what a matchup problem he'd be there. This would also be a more fair comparison with Dwayne Evans at his best. We forget so quickly that the Bills offense was frustratingly worse last year than it was the previous two seasons. Part of that was losing Kwamain and Cody of course. But another part of it was Crews being forced (or deciding) to use Dwanye at the 4 since we had no better options.

[moytoy12]

That thread is hilarious. Taj freaking out (huge surprise), guys like Moytoy questioning Majerus. Just hilarious stuff. It's pretty comical how much ###### MB gets on this board but he's actually a voice of reason and right more than most people.

I pointed out that our offense on that team resembled Sodie's and that RM should have been getting more out of our guys by that point. I don't think that was highly controversial. I also noted RM's ability as a coach, which is why I wondered aloud as to our lack of production.

MB will have some good Billiken basketball insight from time to time, but on the whole (including predictions, etc.) I'd wager he is right less than 1/2 the time.

[For-DaLove]

I pointed out that our offense on that team resembled Sodie's and that RM should have been getting more out of our guys by that point. I don't think that was highly controversial. I also noted RM's ability as a coach, which is why I wondered aloud as to our lack of production.

MB will have some good Billiken basketball insight from time to time, but on the whole (including predictions, etc.) I'd wager he is right less than 1/2 the time.

He brings more to the table than most posters, especially those who are constantly attacking him, and that's really my only point.

[moytoy12]

He brings more to the table than most posters, especially those who are constantly attacking him, and that's really my only point.

Fair enough. And when he sticks to Billiken bball, I actually agree that he brings thoughtful points, even if i disagree with those points.

[Littlebill]

Fair enough. And when he sticks to Billiken bball, I actually agree that he brings thoughtful points, even if i disagree with those points.

+1

[ACE]

Fans question coaches during/after bad games/seasons, not surprising. Hindsight is 20/20.

True, but some had foresight. Others had absolutely none.

[Littlebill]

I don't think Taj made one good point in that rambling. I know hindsight is 20/20 but still.

[Taj79]

@da-love: please demonstarte how one "freaks out' in a two-dimensional, black-type-on-white-background image. I shall endeavor to avoid such behavior in the future.

[Taj79]

@ da-love: never mind. i do sound terrible there if I must say so myself.

[kshoe]

Wow, so much crazy stuff in this. You can clearly see who was on the wrong side of history. That thread is also a reminder of how much better this board has been the last couple of years than it was back then. Some of the board elders were way off about the direction the program was heading. Also a lot more trolls back then - 3Jack... what a tool. The chicken littles even questioning RM?!?! The stuff about WR and Sodie was hilarious. Interesting to note that about a month and a half after that board meltdown following a home loss to Dayton, the Bills turned around and beat Dayton at SVU, so progress was being made that season.

Ace, thanks for getting me to read that thread. Amazing to see just how off some of the most frequent (and lengthy) posters on this board have been over the years.

[Bizziken]

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20159

My favorite thread from the 10-11 season. Jett is called "Dwayne Polk with rasta dreds."

This thread is a microcosm of Billikens.com...we had a health debate, a persistent troll, an argument over the blame Majerus should get, The Situation, a Billikan smackdown, analysis of a young team, Bad News Bears, and a class by class discussion of recruits...all stemming from an ancestor of the 'Taj from a couch' thread

[moytoy12]

This thread is a microcosm of Billikens.com...we had a health debate, a persistent troll, an argument over the blame Majerus should get, The Situation, a Billikan smackdown, analysis of a young team, Bad News Bears, and a class by class discussion of recruits...all stemming from an ancestor of the 'Taj from a couch' thread

It lacked Oregon cheerleader/Oregon state amateur porn pics/video.

[ACE]

Fair points all. The only issue I take with the above posts is "underrate the upside of the freshmen." Only because that comes down to "how's the fine tuning on your crystal ball?" And only time can tell who will be right in the outcome.

I like the comparison of Crawford to Robertson, it makes sense. I did Yarbrough to Evans/Jeff Harris and I will say I think he is offensively ahead of Dewey as freshmen. He has slasher potential/jump shooter; Dwayne never really got that far. Roby reminds me of Virgil Cobbin some. Bartley lookslike, with weight, he could indeed be a Jeff Fisher/Charlie Newberry type.

Gillmann and Jolly look more Chris Braun than Rob Loe now but they are freshmen. Reynolds looks more like Ramon Trice/Anthony Jones/Corey Frazier --- unfulfilled promise. Lancona looks more like the next Dick Missavage/Dale Renken/Ross Varner. Agbeko is striving to be the next Corey Remekun but looks more like Va'shun Newborne and I want him to be Shevon Thompson.

The best news is there is time for all to figure it out ...... and/or move on.

@old guy --- I think you, and a lot of us, including me, keep hoping on that Agbeko expectation you have. Paint me doubtful. Reggie looked great (at home) against the playground style of VCU. The problem is only VCU plays that style. We need more and there was nothing at Mason. Umass will be an interesting test. We should need him what with Lalanne, Esho and Coleman coming this afternoon.

You would like roy's comparison of Crawford to Robertson Robertson averaged less than 3 ppg... for his career! Crawford is already averaging nearly 7 ppg as a sophomore.

[davidnark]

I think if you compare the two classes side-by-side, the 2010-11 class isn't THAT far ahead of this class, and there really is reason to be optimistic about this current crop of freshmen having the same ability to lead this team to multiple NCAA appearances like the last one did.

Overall, I'd say it is fair to claim the 2010-11 freshman class was the better one of the two at the same respective points in the season. However, it is pretty close, IMO. Milik definitely has the best overall stats of all the players, and compared directly to Evans, was more productive scoring-wise while comparing favorably in shooting percentage and rebounds.

Meanwhile, McCall and Jett had more combined points, rebounds, steals and assists than Bartley and Roby, and by a pretty decent margin. However, Bartley and Roby have had fewer turnovers and Roby is a far better three-point shooter than Jett was, while Bartley and McCall's percentages from beyond the arc nearly identical.

As for Gillman to Loe, Loe would seem to be ahead there, though one can point out that Gillman's shooting percentages (sans free throws) are far superior to Loe's at the same time.

Unlike Roy, I feel very good about the talent level of this class. While it certainly sucks to watch home loss after home loss and winnable games be p!ssed away, I see a lot of hope for the future and go into each game with the attitude that these kids are learning the hard way and the close losses this year will turn into comfortable wins next year, just like we saw in 2011-12. Personally, I just can't buy into overwhelming negativity and the feeling that we are on the road towards a long period of mediocrity. I just don't see it, even with the lumps taken this season.

I think this is a nice and fair summary. I tend to think that we look back fondly at our former "stars" and forget their weaknesses. For example, I remember how much Claggett and Highmark struggled to find wins their freshmen years before eventually becoming back-to-back tournament teams. A number of years later, Kevin Lisch was a great player, but due to his size and athletic limitations, he never developed into a superstar. Likewise, Tommie had great versatility and athleticism, but he never developed into a dominate, "go to" player. (This was the backcourt that went 2-21 in our 20 point debacle against GW.) We also forget how Rob Loe, despite the accolades, struggled with the physical part of the game for a couple years, and how Dwayne Evans would often get pushed around in A-10 play his freshmen year. Heck, does everyone realize that Jett didn't crack the starting lineup until his senior year.

When I look at this current group, I see four players with size and skills who will form a nucleus that should be able to compete at the top of the conference in future years. The staff has traded a little quickness for size in the backcourt, but that is OK. What I really like is that you can readily see how strong offseason will help these players. I love reading Crews discuss Milik; Crews says Milik's game is really raw, but Milik knows it and is very coachable. If Milik gets a little leaner and more explosive and learns the game better, he has the ability to vie for player of the year in the conference down the road. Bartley and Gillmann will most certainly add a lot of muscle to their frames, which will make them much more ready for high-level D1 ball. Roby needs to continue to build confidence in slashing to the basket, but we have seem him make a lot of progress in the last month.

If we are going to be real good next year, we need those four to improve in the offseason, and we need AY and McBroom to embrace more limited, but critical roles. It will also help if either of the new big men recruits is capable of stepping in and getting some minutes off the bench next year.

Despite the struggles, I am excited. I think the overall talent level of this class is good, and the program is trending back up.

[davidnark]

Ace, thanks for getting me to read that thread. Amazing to see just how off some of the most frequent (and lengthy) posters on this board have been over the years.

I recall really hoping I was "off" when I was dismayed by the Soderberger hiring. Unfortunately, I wasn't.

[TheA_Bomb]

Ace, thanks for getting me to read that thread. Amazing to see just how off some of the most frequent (and lengthy) posters on this board have been over the years.

That season taught me to be patient this season. It turned out OK. I think this will turn out OK too.

PS I really hope MBM reigned in his weight he was borderline. Probably too much frou frou cream and sugar in his lattes. I drink my coffee black.

[hsmith19]

The same people who are saying now that Crews isn't using his players correctly and hasn't raised the level of the program were also saying it about Majerus back then. The same people who stir up drama and take personal offense over anything less than glowing assessments of players and coaches now were doing it back then. Can't say that was too enlightening, but all the comments on how worthless Jett was and how a team that relied heavily on Conklin could never be any good are pretty entertaining with the advantage of hindsight.

[brianstl]

I thought then that Majerus should have adjusted what he ran with that team. I still think the same thing today. That team could have performed better based on its talent. Majerus wasn't willing to bend. You could make an argument that the team was stronger for it in the long run.

That said, you could see what Majerus was trying to do with that team offensively and defensively. I can't say I see the same thing now.

[hsmith19]

I thought then that Majerus should have adjusted what he ran with that team. I still think the same thing today. That team could have performed better based on its talent. Majerus wasn't willing to bend. You could make an argument that the team was stronger for it in the long run.

That said, you could see what Majerus was trying to do with that team offensively and defensively. I can't say I see the same thing now.

That might be true, in both cases. But I'm a lot less worried about the team performing incrementally better in the bottoming out years than I am on them eventually improving in later seasons. I would still like to see some wins against the bottom half of the A-10 in the next few weeks, but that's starting to seem more and more secondary. The CBI ship for this season has long since sailed.

I will admit, though, that after seeing you emphasize time and time again how much worse you think this team is than 2010's, I was a little surprised to see you so down on the 2010 team (and how Majerus was coaching them) in that thread back at the time.

[courtside]

This thread illustrates the need for balance in recruiting classes. A variety of things can disrupt that. Coaching changes, misses on recruiting, all kinds of things. And, it is important to get back to balanced classes as soon as possible. Otherwise you will be starting over and rebuilding every so many years. One challenge to this is sometimes discouraged kids leave schools during the rebuilding process. Retention of key players becomes more challenging. Try to avoid as much as possible loading most of your better players in one class.

Combining classes back to back becomes very important. SLU of course is not alone in this regard. I am sure many of you went to the Vandy game or watched it. Vandy has some very promising Freshman and Sophomores. and despite good moments, they have had their ups and downs. Vandy gets 85% of its scoring from Freshman and Sophomores. What happened at Vandy? A couple of key former players had off the court problems. One kid left school early for the NBA a while back, and many of their top players were in the same class or two. They also had some turnover with assistant coaches too. it has taken the, a few years to get back to the elite level.

SLU is going to go through a couple of rebuilding years. There will be many frustrating games etc...As has been mentioned player development is very important, along with combining recruiting classes, balanced classes, player retention, etc...You can't come up with empty classes.

[Taj79]

@ACE: the comparison was not about PPG. It was about being a role player/cog in the roster and not being built around as I recall. Here's the exact quote: "crawford is the best of the lot, but he seems to be somewhat limited as well (he actually is on par maybe with a troy robertson. troy was a decent role player, but hardly a difference maker or starter worthy. he too had moments and a purpose, but spoon didnt build his team around him.)"

Here's another quote just in this thread: "novices often throw around 2 or 3 stats and think they nailed it, think they figured it all out. nope.

very important in the so called comparison are all kinds of other statistical factors, minutes per game, strength of schedule, etcetera, etcetera." Good toknow you are a novice per MB 73's definition.

[ACE]

@ACE: the comparison was not about PPG. It was about being a role player/cog in the roster and not being built around as I recall. Here's the exact quote: "crawford is the best of the lot, but he seems to be somewhat limited as well (he actually is on par maybe with a troy robertson. troy was a decent role player, but hardly a difference maker or starter worthy. he too had moments and a purpose, but spoon didnt build his team around him.)"

Here's another quote just in this thread: "novices often throw around 2 or 3 stats and think they nailed it, think they figured it all out. nope.

very important in the so called comparison are all kinds of other statistical factors, minutes per game, strength of schedule, etcetera, etcetera." Good toknow you are a novice per MB 73's definition.

"He (Crawford) actually is on par maybe with a troy robertson" What an overly simplistic and lazy analysis. That is like saying all 6-4ish white guys that come off the bench are equal. Robertson did have "a purpose"... to keep the bench warm and to deliver one nice game against Kansas. As a sophomore, Crawford is already contributing more over a stretch of games than Robertson did at any point during his career where he averaged fewer than 3 ppg. You're using a quote from MB to support your case. I don't think I need to perform a detailed statistical analysis to determine that Crawford is already and will continue to be a more important contributor than Robertson ever was. I think that point should be obvious. Heck, I also didn't need to do some elaborate statistical breakdown to recognize that as a freshman Jordair was going to be a better player than Dwayne Polk

[jbizzle09]

@ACE: the comparison was not about PPG. It was about being a role player/cog in the roster and not being built around as I recall. Here's the exact quote: "crawford is the best of the lot, but he seems to be somewhat limited as well (he actually is on par maybe with a troy robertson. troy was a decent role player, but hardly a difference maker or starter worthy. he too had moments and a purpose, but spoon didnt build his team around him.)"

Here's another quote just in this thread: "novices often throw around 2 or 3 stats and think they nailed it, think they figured it all out. nope.

very important in the so called comparison are all kinds of other statistical factors, minutes per game, strength of schedule, etcetera, etcetera." Good toknow you are a novice per MB 73's definition.

The MB quote was obviously a dig at me for doing a statistical comparison between the 2010-11 class and this year's. Because, as we all know, stats are stupid.

Also, I agree with ACE. Even remotely comparing Mike Crawford to Troy Robertson is insane. As ACE said, the only role Troy Robertson had on those teams was keeping the bench warm. Crawford has already contributed more in his season and a half than Troy did in his whole career. Robertson was never a decent role player. Roy deserves criticism for saying such and so do you for saying you like that comparison.