Nolan Berry Transferring

[brianstl]

Ok, I can understand that. One question - how valuable is it to have an open scholarship vs a player who is more or less redundant considering our current roster? Particularly in a year for which we might only have two open scholarships?

I have a feeling someone will decide to transfer between now and then. Got a lot a players for the same spots in the same class. Somebody won't be happy.

[willie]

I have a feeling someone will decide to transfer between now and then. Got a lot a players for the same spots in the same class. Somebody won't be happy.

I would be surprised , It would have to be one of the freshman and they aren't talking like they are unhappy.

[brianstl]

I would be surprised It would have to be one of the freshman and they aren't talking like they are unhappy.

I am talking about the kids coming in next year

[Aquinas]

For those who say we already have two 4s in Tanner and Abeko, there are other possibilities.
With the Billiken offence, a stretch player as a 4 or a 5 doesn’t fit the traditional definition of a center and power forward. When Loe and Ellis were on the floor at the same time, they did the same things, ball screen high, pick and roll, and flash to the basket. Neither spent much time posting up. To the contrary, it was Evans who posted up as a 3. That situation might appeal to Berry, who is a good passer, has an outside game and will slash to the basket when given a chance.

If Agbeko can defend the opposing 3, then he presents the same kind of posting nightmare that Evans did when he was on the floor with Loe and Ellis. BUT it only works if you have a stretch 4 and 5 on the floor, who can hit a 3 and draw their counterparts away from the basket.

I’m not saying that Berry is the right player for us, he looks very thin. My point is that our coaching staff can find a way to use our players if they think he really has the potential to develop into a good player and improve our team.

[David King]

As to Glaze, I would tell him that we are in the middle of youth movement, that his time was this past year, that he didn't take seize the opportunity and that his playing time will be next to nothing next year. If he wants to stay and be a practice player and an energy guy in practice, then fine, he is already a Senior. Otherwise, I hope we have seen the last of him. In short, we just cannot have sustained success waiting/hoping for guys to have one (1) good year in college ball -- JB (didn't really happen), Manning (hope he finally does next year) and Glaze (hoping for next year)...

Spoken like a true dumb !

[MB73]

This cut Glaze talk is the dumbest ###### I've read on this board in at least a week.

Agree, no way we cut a hard working senior like GG, even suggesting this on this board should NOT be posted by a true Billiken fan. Stop it.

No way we get our last minute dream quality ferocious athletic banger big who can rebound, defend & score from a transfer or junior college.

RE: Berry, no one on this board can say with certainty that he is better or worse that TL or RA. None of the three played enough as freshmen. If you say you KNOW for sure, you lose credibility. They were freshmen. Out of blind loyalty, some here say our guys are better. And some say the hell with him since he passed us up the first time. Balderdash.

ME? I'll take Berry, a 6'10" big with skills, anytime, for our program.

Majerus changed the program (among other things) by recruiting a deep line of diverse bigs. Suddenly, we were 5-6 deep. Last year was the best, by far, this year we went down a notch after losing CE and CR.

Guards are nice, but a more plentiful commodity in the marketplace...bigs are the difference, we are in better shape at this point in time going into the future with the guards than bigs...our bigs are unknown. Hopefully, TL and RA will blossom, and JM and GG will improve.

[For-DaLove]

Reid was certainly injured (concussion) but he did go on to play basketball elsewhere and I'd suggest that if RM thought Reid could play better than he did, Reid would not have left our program. I'd suggest that Reid left b/c of his basketball skills.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet so someone may have already corrected you, but Reid left to be closer to home and "retired" from basketball. His symptoms from the concussions were so bad that he had given up on playing basketball. Thankfully they improved later on and he was able to play. Great kid.

[VeniceMenace]

Spoken like a true dumb ######!

[VeniceMenace]

Clock you don't want to raise the ire of a blue cOllar big man like David King!

[Dwayne's_World]

I don't know if anyone has suggested it yet, but wouldn't Gillman redshirt next year anyways? Then, Berry would be the 5th man in the class of 2018 when he becomes eligible while Gillman would be part of the class with Welmer. Seems pretty balanced that way.

Also, Welmer is still not officially signed with us...

[kappy96]

You folks are nuts if you don't think that we could use him. Also, as far as the Butler choice, why are you knocking a kid who wasn't even recruited by SLU? Brad Stevens was a dynamic young talent that had a great recruiting ability. I also tried to follow Berry's career at Butler but to no avail.

I love the way everyone thinks that our talent level at the bigs is set. That is laughable. So, you're good with John Manning (likeable, but not very mobile, and foul city) Grandy Glaze (the hardest working man in show business - unfortunately not really a scoring option), Tanner Lancona (will probably grow into a good player, but just don't see him banging down low), Austin Gillman (someone give me a sandwich because I am going to get hammered - or better yet, redshirt me), and Brett Jolly (will be great from the outside, and also still needs time to grow).

Berry would be a great get. The kid is a competitor, a Jesuit, and could be another big in the Conklin mold. I'll take him any day.

This. While I agree we need to defer to the staff as to what they feel we need and trust they have irons in the right fires it is naive to say Berry wouldn't help us.

[Clock_Tower]

Agree, no way we cut a hard working senior like GG, even suggesting this on this board should NOT be posted by a true Billiken fan. Stop it.

No way we get our last minute dream quality ferocious athletic banger big who can rebound, defend & score from a transfer or junior college.

RE: Berry, no one on this board can say with certainty that he is better or worse that TL or RA. None of the three played enough as freshmen. If you say you KNOW for sure, you lose credibility. They were freshmen. Out of blind loyalty, some here say our guys are better. And some say the hell with him since he passed us up the first time. Balderdash.

ME? I'll take Berry, a 6'10" big with skills, anytime, for our program.

Majerus changed the program (among other things) by recruiting a deep line of diverse bigs. Suddenly, we were 5-6 deep. Last year was the best, by far, this year we went down a notch after losing CE and CR.

Guards are nice, but a more plentiful commodity in the marketplace...bigs are the difference, we are in better shape at this point in time going into the future with the guards than bigs...our bigs are unknown. Hopefully, TL and RA will blossom, and JM and GG will improve.

I appreciate your comments about the scarcity of bigs and agree that guards are more plentiful, but we haven't had a truly good shooter since Lisch and we haven't had a truly good outside shooting team in years. 0-15 last game says it all. And our poor shooting was not only this past game but for most of this season. And as good as we were last year, basically this year's team with KM and CE, we still struggled against zone defenses last years. Sorry, but until we become plentiful with good shooting guards, we need to use our limited scholarships to restock the guards. Personally, I prefer a 3 guard offense and with the size and length of some of our guards, wouldn't mind an occasional 4 guard offense if our bigs take longer than expected to develop.

[JettFlight5]

I actually like some of the 3-guard sets we could use in the coming years. Roby has the size to guard 3s, which could really make for some mismatches on the offensive end of the floor. It's a lot to ask for freshmen to come in and do that right away, but I think going forward we will see more of that.

[bills10]

doesn't this conversation make you miss Roy?

[MB73]

Clock.

It is not that simple to just get a dead eye 3's shooting guard and that is it.

It is a balance.

The two years before this year ('13-'14) we had plentiful bigs (RL, CE, DE*, Conk, CR, GG) that rotated and had to be respected so it helped KM, MM and others shoot their 3's more effectively.

Opponents had to worry about our inside players much more the last previous two years than this year. And both CE and RL could pop from outside, hard to cover, left KM, MM, and others open. Look how MM's % dropped this year.

I say, if KM was on the team this year he would not be quite as effective of a 3 point shooter since Conk, CE, and CR are no longer up front. Our inside threat and / or bigs that had to be covered when they wander out to the three point line were reduced dramatically, and no new bigs emerged as real threats.

(*yes, DE is a big, he played like a big, he was an inside threat for sure)

[Clock_Tower]

Clock.

It is not that simple to just get a dead eye 3's shooting guard and that is it.

It is a balance.

The two years before this year ('13-'14) we had plentiful bigs (RL, CE, DE*, Conk, CR, GG) that rotated and had to be respected so it helped KM, MM and others shoot their 3's more effectively.

Opponents had to worry about our inside players much more the last previous two years than this year. And both CE and RL could pop from outside, hard to cover, left KM, MM, and others open. Look how MM's % dropped this year.

I say, if KM was on the team this year he would not be quite as effective of a 3 point shooter since Conk, CE, and CR are no longer up front. Our inside threat and / or bigs that had to be covered when they wander out to the three point line were reduced dramatically, and no new bigs emerged as real threats.

(*yes, DE is a big, he played like a big, he was an inside threat for sure)

MB. I agree with most of your comments with the exception of the asterisk. DE lacked guard skills and was definitely a "big". But what I am saying is that we haven't had a really good outside shooter since Kevin Lisch. As great as RM was, he never got us another Lisch, Claggett or Highmark type guy. And yes, CE, RL and KM could all make 3 pointers, but I'd suggest that all were more streaky shooters and none were consistent zone buster type shooters. IMO, Kyle Cassity, Jeff Reid, Christian Salisich and Jake Barnett were all supposed to be that good outside shooter but none were. I sure hope Ash become the outside shooter we long desire/need, and even if so, we need more than one good shooter on the team. Plus, Ash will be a Junior so having a good shooting Frosh makes sense.

[Duff Man]

Clock.

It is not that simple to just get a dead eye 3's shooting guard and that is it.

It is a balance.

The two years before this year ('13-'14) we had plentiful bigs (RL, CE, DE*, Conk, CR, GG) that rotated and had to be respected so it helped KM, MM and others shoot their 3's more effectively.

Opponents had to worry about our inside players much more the last previous two years than this year. And both CE and RL could pop from outside, hard to cover, left KM, MM, and others open. Look how MM's % dropped this year.

I say, if KM was on the team this year he would not be quite as effective of a 3 point shooter since Conk, CE, and CR are no longer up front. Our inside threat and / or bigs that had to be covered when they wander out to the three point line were reduced dramatically, and no new bigs emerged as real threats.

(*yes, DE is a big, he played like a big, he was an inside threat for sure)

to echo that...

Kevin Lisch 3P% his first 2 years (w/ Vouyoukas): 41.1% (304 attempts)

Kevin Lisch 3P% his last 2 years (w/o Vouyoukas) 38.1% (352 attempts)

Guys like Claggett who could create their own 3PT shot off the dribble and shoot > 40% from 3 were rare 20 years ago, and they're even more rare now.

The objective to have 5 efficient offensive players (who also buy in on the defensive end) on the court at all times. That's the key. Players who can knock down open shots, but more importantly players who can draw the attention of multiple defenders and create open shots for others. The 2011-12 team was 39th in KenPom Offensive Efficiency with a top 7 of Conklin, Mitchell, Evans, Ellis, McCall, Jett, and Loe.

That's the template.

[slufanskip]

Grandy is an asset to this team and has improved each year. He is by far our best rebounder and will be needed next year.

How would any player show loyalty to this team if we don't show it to them?

Agreed

I'd also add that Grandy is a better player than the eye test makes you believe because he looks unorthodox. True he could shoot a better % and you wish he would but the reality of it is the difference between the 48% he made and a very good 55% would have been one more made shot every 5 games. He gets 4.5 rebounds in 13 minutes a game, that's silly good. He also despite how bad it looks shot 70% from the line which isn't bad for a big. He brings energy and hustle to the game. The key to Grandy is remembering who he is, he sometimes wants to believe he can create his own shot and/or is a got to guy on offense. But even if he never corrects that tendency we need him.

Too think Grandy should be moved out is just wrong, not only because doing that to a Sr is wrong, but because Grandy brings something to the team no one else does. Really we were a team that gave up far too many offensive boards and some or someone wants to boot a guy that averaged over a rebound every 3 minutes.

[Billiken Rich]

Agreed

I'd also add that Grandy is a better player than the eye test makes you believe because he looks unorthodox. True he could shoot a better % and you wish he would but the reality of it is the difference between the 48% he made and a very good 55% would have been one more made shot every 5 games. He gets 4.5 rebounds in 13 minutes a game, that's silly good. He also despite how bad it looks shot 70% from the line which isn't bad for a big. He brings energy and hustle to the game. The key to Grandy is remembering who he is, he sometimes wants to believe he can create his own shot and/or is a got to guy on offense. But even if he never corrects that tendency we need him.

Too think Grandy should be moved out is just wrong, not only because doing that to a Sr is wrong, but because Grandy brings something to the team no one else does. Really we were a team that gave up far too many offensive boards and some or someone wants to boot a guy that averaged over a rebound every 3 minutes.

I can't buy into the trashing of Grandy and Manning. Historically they'd rank better than average as Billiken bigs already. Of course, historically, we've been undersized and under talented. I think both will shine next year and we will miss them when they are gone..........

[kshoe]

I hope people realize the "Grandy transfer talk" is just coming from one poster. Pretty much everyone else on this board has pointed out how wrong it is.

[Clock_Tower]

to echo that...

Kevin Lisch 3P% his first 2 years (w/ Vouyoukas): 41.1% (304 attempts)

Kevin Lisch 3P% his last 2 years (w/o Vouyoukas) 38.1% (352 attempts)

Guys like Claggett who could create their own 3PT shot off the dribble and shoot > 40% from 3 were rare 20 years ago, and they're even more rare now.

The objective to have 5 efficient offensive players (who also buy in on the defensive end) on the court at all times. That's the key. Players who can knock down open shots, but more importantly players who can draw the attention of multiple defenders and create open shots for others. The 2011-12 team was 39th in KenPom Offensive Efficiency with a top 7 of Conklin, Mitchell, Evans, Ellis, McCall, Jett, and Loe.

That's the template.

Statistics can be misleading. First, the difference between 41.1% and 38.1% is not that great especially but even so cannot be entirely credited toward Vouyoukas. Sure IV helped KL get open looks and sure that the goal is have both an inside and outside threat, but the offense was based upon and run around KL and TL under Brad (picks and screens were set for KL) while RM implemented his offense and did not cater to either KL or TL. Also, with lesser talent (absence of Vouyokas), KL had to shoot more and not always take the best shots.

Second, I fully admit that basic basketball skills (shooting, dribbling, FT's) have probably decreased as kids are spending more time traveling the AAU circuit and playing games as opposed to practicing in the local gym. With that said, the basketball game awareness and ability to handle pressure situations has probably increased as the kids now enter college with many more pressure games, travel/tournaments under their belts. But still, good teams have to have good shooting guards and, in recent years, our guards have been great (JJ for instance) but no one has shot the ball, especially under pressure, like KL did. Shooting percentages can often be padded with high statistics in certain games.

[Band Legend]

Clock,

Please change your status to Third class Bills fan. You have some work to do to bring yourself back up to second class. I can't believe that you see no value on a fifteen man team for someone like Grandy. Lots of teams would love to have a 10-15 minute player who will bang with anybody and rebound his ass off.

[ACE]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but it has been reported that Porter is having lunch with Nolan Berry in Indy today. For those who claim that SLU did not recruit Berry very hard, that is wrong. Cusumano said SLU was very aggressive and that Porter had a good relationship with the kid.

[Westy03]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but it has been reported that Porter is having lunch with Nolan Berry in Indy today. For those who claim that SLU did not recruit Berry very hard, that is wrong. Cusumano said SLU was very aggressive and that Porter had a good relationship with the kid.

I read somewhere that we did recruit him hard but Berry didnt exactly hit it off with Majerus. With Rick gone he may consider SLU again

[NH]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but it has been reported that Porter is having lunch with Nolan Berry in Indy today. For those who claim that SLU did not recruit Berry very hard, that is wrong. Cusumano said SLU was very aggressive and that Porter had a good relationship with the kid.

When Porter left our recruitment of Berry fell off. We were not one of the 5-10 schools that recruited him hardest. I would be careful what you trust from Frank regarding these St. Louis recruits.