Recruiting a big man

[Quality Is Job 1]

A 6'10" guy with the passion and energy of Conklin is a McDonald's all American and future pro.

Not necessarily; you've omitted some key characteristics. I'd argue that Willie Reed, ~6'10", had passion and energy (on the court) similar to Conklin's, but....

[Archy McNally]

Dwayne is an inch shorter than Conk and is probably a better rebounder. Call him what you want.

I think he is more than an inch shorter as I think they stopped shaving inches after the current juniors. However, I do think he will replace Conk's production next year. Maybe not exclusively posting up, but still score a lot of points. Needs to tighten up the ball handling and the pull it more from the outside.

[Clock_Tower]

Grandy is pure athleticism with very raw basketball talent. He will be good once he grasps the offense and plays under the control that the Majerus offense requires. Also don't forget we have Dwayne who has shown ability to play in the post just as well as he can play facing the basket.

05. You're right about DE being extra big man but I count 7 bigs (RL, BC, DE, CE, CR, GG and JM) this year and 6 next. At the same time, as good as DE has played this year facing the basket, I believe he will play even better next year in the post with his back to the basket. Not saying that DE (as a Junior next year) will be as good/better than BC (as a Senior this year) but DE just might be our most likely guy to replace BC next year, and IMO, he will do a really good job. In fact, RL has really come along way so far this season, and if this continues for RL and if CE improves even more (having a really nice year now that he is both healthy and in game shape), I think that next year's lineup of DE, RL and CE (with CR, JM and GG in reserve) actually might be better than this year's bigs of DE, RL and BC (with CE, CR, JM and GG in reserves).

Enough about next year. We still have unfinished business this year. Unlike most years in the past, this is not the time to start thinking about next year. The present is hopeful and exciting. We don't need to think of next year for hope and excitement now.

[billikenfan05]

05. You're right about DE being extra big man but I count 7 bigs (RL, BC, DE, CE, CR, GG and JM) this year and 6 next. At the same time, as good as DE has played this year facing the basket, I believe he will play even better next year in the post with his back to the basket. Not saying that DE (as a Junior next year) will be as good/better than BC (as a Senior this year) but DE just might be our most likely guy to replace BC next year, and IMO, he will do a really good job. In fact, RL has really come along way so far this season, and if this continues for RL and if CE improves even more (having a really nice year now that he is both healthy and in game shape), I think that next year's lineup of DE, RL and CE (with CR, JM and GG in reserve) actually might be better than this year's bigs of DE, RL and BC (with CE, CR, JM and GG in reserves).

Enough about next year. We still have unfinished business this year. Unlike most years in the past, this is not the time to start thinking about next year. The present is hopeful and exciting. We don't need to think of next year for hope and excitement now.

F'in A cotton.

[MB73]

Same old story, we never, ever, ever get the kind of bigs that we really need to complete the mix.

The 6'9" - 6'10" 260 lb inside force that stops the other team from driving to the hoop, gets 8-10 rebounds pg. Doesn't have to be a post up scorer, just get 8-10 ppg on offensive rebounds, garbage. Not stars, role players in actuality. We had WR for awhile, a fluke, didn't last, no bulk but long and a leaper... and he could play post up "O", a bonus.

JUCO? HA! No way.

And, again, It is classless and inexcusable to talk about bumping players and naming names on this board.

[booyaa87]

I see CE stepping up with a bigger post presence next season. His defense is already much improved, heck he may lead the nation in charges and i can't remember a single time he has been over whelmed by anyone he has guarded this season. Sure BC always takes the other teams best post player, but he has also been in foul trouble in multiple games and CE has done a nice job along with RL. Give him onemore offseason and he will come back even better, imo.

[wgstl]

from what I have heard/seen, GG may be the toughest, most physical player we have had in a long time.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

from what I have heard/seen, GG may be the toughest, most physical player we have had in a long time.

Yes, he's not going anywhere. He will surprise many on this board by his junior and senior seasons.

[WestCoastBilliken]

I am stoked about next year Bigs.... I wouldn't worry too much. We have heard good things about GG being big and physical. Our Hall of Fame coash said JM is the only one on our team with NBA potential. I have started seeing CE backing guys down and taking the ball to the glass. And DE is DE.

Dont worry about it. Lets get this year done!

[The Pelican]

Not necessarily; you've omitted some key characteristics. I'd argue that Willie Reed, ~6'10", had passion and energy (on the court) similar to Conklin's, but....

Did you not see WR asked to be subbed after running the court less than ten times. I certainly wouldn't say he had the energy of BC. Passion can be deemed a few ways - one of them as doing what it takes off the court to play on the court.

[kmbilliken]

RM said the recruit from Indy was more athletic than DE and had a better shot. He's only 6'5", but may give us some help. If Carter is as good as advertised we'll be playing 3 guards more than we do now.

JM has looked like he has a few post moves, a mid-range shot and can rebound and block shots. His question marks are his ability to stay with his man and ball security. Playing regularly may make him less panicked with the ball and help him turn it over less. They should be able to coach him up a little of the defense.

GG looks like he's plenty athletic, but needs a better feel for the game. Hopefully they can coach that into him.

I think what we need from all of our bigs next year is continued development. All but Cory have given us that this year and I think it's reasonable to expect some next year. BC won't be replaced by one player, but incrementally by all of them.

[wgstl]

RM said the recruit from Indy was more athletic than DE and had a better shot. He's only 6'5", but may give us some help. If Carter is as good as advertised we'll be playing 3 guards more than we do now.

JM has looked like he has a few post moves, a mid-range shot and can rebound and block shots. His question marks are his ability to stay with his man and ball security. Playing regularly may make him less panicked with the ball and help him turn it over less. They should be able to coach him up a little of the defense.

GG looks like he's plenty athletic, but needs a better feel for the game. Hopefully they can coach that into him.

I think what we need from all of our bigs next year is continued development. All but Cory have given us that this year and I think it's reasonable to expect some next year. BC won't be replaced by one player, but incrementally by all of them.

On jared drew, I have heard hes 6'6 and plays like 6'7.

[thetorch]

On jared drew, I have heard hes 6'6 and plays like 6'7.

Drew is a tweener like Evans but much more of a 3. He shoots and handles at a higher level than Evans, not as good of a rebounder. He has a 7 foot wingspan, blocks shots a little bit. No one has the nose for the ball like Evans does.

I think Evans moves to the 4 next year. He'd play much better on drives against opposing 4s rather than opposing 3s. Height won't be a problem because Ellis and Loe bring their big guy out. Conklin exploits 1 on 1 in the post, evans will do the same. Ellis can play in the post as well, he has some nice moves and good footwork. He still needs added strength to finish though.

[drkelsey55]

There's nothing wrong with talking about next year. We're no longer in the process of becoming a good program. We are a good program now and this is the first year of it. Next year will be the second year. I believe RM and Chaifetz have turned the ship around and we are finally heading in the right direction. How far will they take us - who knows? Part of being a good program is winning now and continuing to win by putting together consecutive good years. In order to do that we have to take care of the present, but not lose sight of the future.

Our inside presence scares the crap out of me. We have some good freshman, but I just don't see them replacing BC next year. That's not a knock on either of them. In a good program, that's usually the way it is. The combination of CE, RL, and CR will have to collectively get the job down. I don't see DE taking that over. He can help depending on matchups, but he's not a big. Hopefully, JM will be ready to contribute by conference play of next year.

So, we have players that will have a year in RM's system who should be replaced by a big man coming in that has to start from scratch!! That makes sense to posters on this board? No offense "Roy" but you where one of the people who felt RM should make do with the players he had when he started the journey. I will trust IN RM, that he knows what he is doing and will bring in others when he sees fit.

[billiken_roy]

So, we have players that will have a year in RM's system who should be replaced by a big man coming in that has to start from scratch!! That makes sense to posters on this board? No offense "Roy" but you where one of the people who felt RM should make do with the players he had when he started the journey. I will trust IN RM, that he knows what he is doing and will bring in others when he sees fit.

i still think that way. no where in my prior message did i say i agreed with my vision.

[slu72]

I hadn't realized the season had ended and we're talking about next year. You guys are discounting the development of RL. More work in the weight room and footwork drills will do what it did for BC. RL's only problem is thinking of himself as a big, which is hard to imagine since he's 7 friggin' feet tall, rather than a tall #3. Someone should get him some film on Zeller of UNC and say, "hey, Rob, that's the style you should be playing."

[HusakAttack]

This thread is simply put: useless. We have 2 quality big men that are freshmen. Yes we will miss Conklin but that's what happens in college basketball programs.

[jimbofive]

Not necessarily; you've omitted some key characteristics. I'd argue that Willie Reed, ~6'10", had passion and energy (on the court) similar to Conklin's, but....

maybe this is quibbling, i wouldn't say willie reed had the energy. the lazy son of a ***** never could get himself in good enough condition to run for more than 5 minutes straight.

[ACE]

Aside from more bs from broy, which many have already called out, this is an interesting topic. Nothing wrong with sneaking a peak ahead. This is just a message board after all. The most important aspect of Conklin's game that will need to be replaced is finding somebody who can score around the basket. I agree with those who point to Evans. He is a more versatile player, but he can score around the basket. He actually plays bigger than Conklin and is a better rebounder. No one person will be able to replace Conklin, but I think the development of the current bigs, most notably RL and CE will help fill the gaps. Those guys are getting tougher and playing better interior defense. Cody can score in the paint a little bit, but I'd like to see RL develop that more. Even Cory will likely pick up a few of Conklin's minutes. While he doesn't do much offensively, he is a better rebounder and shotblocker than Conklin. And if Manning gets in the mix, he gets us another true big in the mix. I am also very optimistic about Grandy. He seems to have Conklin's attitude combined with more athleticism, but can he develop the finer points of the game that BC is so good at?

It seems as Billiken fans, we are not used to seeing guys who start out as the 11th, 12th or 13th man on the bench develop into good players, so maybe that is why some people are discounting Grandy and Manning. Heck our previous coach usually didn't even have a 12th or 13th man on the team because he was "saving scholarships." But we've also had a few bench players like Simmons and Justin Johnson who never developed to become more than bench players. Good programs seem to have younger players waiting in the wings to take over. I think for the first time we have that. I am confident in the roster we have and feel good that collectively the team will be able to make up for the loss of Conklin. The way this squad is constructed, it truly is a team. We're not like the Larry Hughes team or Marque Perry team where we are so reliant on one player. There are a lot of interchangeable parts and players with a variety of skills.

[SShoe]

Aside from more bs from broy, which many have already called out, this is an interesting topic. Nothing wrong with sneaking a peak ahead. This is just a message board after all. The most important aspect of Conklin's game that will need to be replaced is finding somebody who can score around the basket. I agree with those who point to Evans. He is a more versatile player, but he can score around the basket. He actually plays bigger than Conklin and is a better rebounder. No one person will be able to replace Conklin, but I think the development of the current bigs, most notably RL and CE will help fill the gaps. Those guys are getting tougher and playing better interior defense. Cody can score in the paint a little bit, but I'd like to see RL develop that more. Even Cory will likely pick up a few of Conklin's minutes. While he doesn't do much offensively, he is a better rebounder and shotblocker than Conklin. And if Manning gets in the mix, he gets us another true big in the mix. I am also very optimistic about Grandy. He seems to have Conklin's attitude combined with more athleticism, but can he develop the finer points of the game that BC is so good at?

It seems as Billiken fans, we are not used to seeing guys who start out as the 11th, 12th or 13th man on the bench develop into good players, so maybe that is why some people are discounting Grandy and Manning. Heck our previous coach usually didn't even have a 12th or 13th man on the team because he was "saving scholarships." But we've also had a few bench players like Simmons and Justin Johnson who never developed to become more than bench players. Good programs seem to have younger players waiting in the wings to take over. I think for the first time we have that. I am confident in the roster we have and feel good that collectively the team will be able to make up for the loss of Conklin. The way this squad is constructed, it truly is a team. We're not like the Larry Hughes team or Marque Perry team where we are so reliant on one player. There are a lot of interchangeable parts and players with a variety of skills.

Great post, Ace. Losing Conklin will hurt, but hopefully the improvement of all returning players plus contributions from Manning and/or Glaze will more than make up for it. Given the current state of the roster, we should not have to rebuild for some time, as I think we're set up nicely for years to come.

[Clock_Tower]

Aside from more bs from broy, which many have already called out, this is an interesting topic. Nothing wrong with sneaking a peak ahead. This is just a message board after all. The most important aspect of Conklin's game that will need to be replaced is finding somebody who can score around the basket. I agree with those who point to Evans. He is a more versatile player, but he can score around the basket. He actually plays bigger than Conklin and is a better rebounder. No one person will be able to replace Conklin, but I think the development of the current bigs, most notably RL and CE will help fill the gaps. Those guys are getting tougher and playing better interior defense. Cody can score in the paint a little bit, but I'd like to see RL develop that more. Even Cory will likely pick up a few of Conklin's minutes. While he doesn't do much offensively, he is a better rebounder and shotblocker than Conklin. And if Manning gets in the mix, he gets us another true big in the mix. I am also very optimistic about Grandy. He seems to have Conklin's attitude combined with more athleticism, but can he develop the finer points of the game that BC is so good at?

It seems as Billiken fans, we are not used to seeing guys who start out as the 11th, 12th or 13th man on the bench develop into good players, so maybe that is why some people are discounting Grandy and Manning. Heck our previous coach usually didn't even have a 12th or 13th man on the team because he was "saving scholarships." But we've also had a few bench players like Simmons and Justin Johnson who never developed to become more than bench players. Good programs seem to have younger players waiting in the wings to take over. I think for the first time we have that. I am confident in the roster we have and feel good that collectively the team will be able to make up for the loss of Conklin. The way this squad is constructed, it truly is a team. We're not like the Larry Hughes team or Marque Perry team where we are so reliant on one player. There are a lot of interchangeable parts and players with a variety of skills.

+1

Frankly, I trust in RM and feel quite comfortable, as previously stated, for next year. And as a reminder, less than 4 years ago one of this Board's biggest fears was class balance and what this team would look like four (4) years after RM's initial recruiting class of 7 players. Now, we are only worried about replacing one (1) player for next year!! RM has a plan and is building something special.

[cheeseman]

First of all the Greek kid redshirted because RM was concerned that he would have trouble adjusting academically if he had the stress of playing heaped on him. He said it was a language adjustment thing. As far as his ability to play goes only time will tell but my point would be if RM did not think he had potential then why sign him and then redshirt him? - he could have held on to the schollie and not have been any worse off. Now with that said - could kid get homesick and go back - sure but that is possible with any kid.

Kids go from the bench as freshmen to playing meaningful minutes - not major - as sophomores all the time so don't act like this is not in the realm of possibility. Glaze could easily play 10-15 minutes a game next year. JM is another one who can play in the paint - RM has said the kid is tough and he fully expects him to be playing next year. What would be wrong with RL and JM holding down the post spot and DE and GG with JB helping out. CE as has been said earlier is another one who will play there also.

As far as Nolan is concerned - even if he wanted to not go to Butler he would have to get his release and why would Butler do that.

Even if we did go and get somebody else, why would you think they would be anymore ready to play next year then those who we already have and have been in the system a full year learing it. Once again, RM has little interest in Juccos because as he has said many times, it is hard to get them approved given our lack of certain degrees that Juccos tend to go to - in other words it is about finding a Jucco who wants to major in a degree we have.

[Taj79]

A couple of points ----- I don't see RL developing too too much more as far as an interior player is concerned. He's come a long ways on defense, but is more the pick-n-pop guy, not the pick and roll guy most American bigs are.

On DE covering a four -- yes, covering a four will make drives on DE's defense less common, however, post up options might increase if he's a 6'5" kid covering a 6'9" four. Just saying, give a little, take a little.

JM playing in the NBA --- while that may be true, it comes back to the fact that you can't teach height. So far, there is not enough body of work to determine whether or not the skills are there. But tall guys get drafted or stick a whole lot easier so it seems.

roy's statements --- are typical and consistent for roy. He was brought into this by name. You know his views; let it go.

Players growing into roles --- yes, it should happen and yes, we are not used to it.

DE playing at the Conklin position and excelling --- that is another I'll believe when I see it. Right now, DE blows a lot of bunnies which I attribute to him being small and down amongst the trees. I doubt he grows any more so that will always be an issue. He needs to develop ala Conklin and go with it. Can he do it? I think so.

Ellis getting a low post game --- see RL. I personally don't believe so. Has he been overpowered this year? I don't think so but he seems on the brink. While he gets the most charges, he flops way too too much, limiting his rebounding ability while prone on his back. He is too weak to go toe-to-toe with traditional bigs, too vertically-challenged to defend/box out, and too slow of foot to stay up with athletic threes. On the flip side, he is a hard man to defend when on the offensive end but seems negated by quicker, athletic defnders.

I'll worry about next year when next year gets here. The sum of a team is the combination of its separate parts. I think all will imporve; been saying that about one player for three years now. And transfers do happen. No clue, other than it happens.

[cheeseman]

05. You're right about DE being extra big man but I count 7 bigs (RL, BC, DE, CE, CR, GG and JM) this year and 6 next. At the same time, as good as DE has played this year facing the basket, I believe he will play even better next year in the post with his back to the basket. Not saying that DE (as a Junior next year) will be as good/better than BC (as a Senior this year) but DE just might be our most likely guy to replace BC next year, and IMO, he will do a really good job. In fact, RL has really come along way so far this season, and if this continues for RL and if CE improves even more (having a really nice year now that he is both healthy and in game shape), I think that next year's lineup of DE, RL and CE (with CR, JM and GG in reserve) actually might be better than this year's bigs of DE, RL and BC (with CE, CR, JM and GG in reserves).

Enough about next year. We still have unfinished business this year. Unlike most years in the past, this is not the time to start thinking about next year. The present is hopeful and exciting. We don't need to think of next year for hope and excitement now.

You are fogetting the kid from Indy we recruited for next year - Jared Drew is his name I think.

[Bill_Ken R]

First of all the Greek kid redshirted because RM was concerned that he would have trouble adjusting academically if he had the stress of playing heaped on him. He said it was a language adjustment thing. As far as his ability to play goes only time will tell but my point would be if RM did not think he had potential then why sign him and then redshirt him? - he could have held on to the schollie and not have been any worse off. Now with that said - could kid get homesick and go back - sure but that is possible with any kid.

Kids go from the bench as freshmen to playing meaningful minutes - not major - as sophomores all the time so don't act like this is not in the realm of possibility. Glaze could easily play 10-15 minutes a game next year. JM is another one who can play in the paint - RM has said the kid is tough and he fully expects him to be playing next year. What would be wrong with RL and JM holding down the post spot and DE and GG with JB helping out. CE as has been said earlier is another one who will play there also.

As far as Nolan is concerned - even if he wanted to not go to Butler he would have to get his release and why would Butler do that.

Even if we did go and get somebody else, why would you think they would be anymore ready to play next year then those who we already have and have been in the system a full year learing it. Once again, RM has little interest in Juccos because as he has said many times, it is hard to get them approved given our lack of certain degrees that Juccos tend to go to - in other words it is about finding a Jucco who wants to major in a degree we have.

My understanding is that Nolan has only given a verbal. It is too early for him to sigh a LOI.