Recruiting a big man

[kshoe]

First of all the Greek kid redshirted because RM was concerned that he would have trouble adjusting academically if he had the stress of playing heaped on him. He said it was a language adjustment thing. As far as his ability to play goes only time will tell but my point would be if RM did not think he had potential then why sign him and then redshirt him? - he could have held on to the schollie and not have been any worse off. Now with that said - could kid get homesick and go back - sure but that is possible with any kid.

Kids go from the bench as freshmen to playing meaningful minutes - not major - as sophomores all the time so don't act like this is not in the realm of possibility. Glaze could easily play 10-15 minutes a game next year. JM is another one who can play in the paint - RM has said the kid is tough and he fully expects him to be playing next year. What would be wrong with RL and JM holding down the post spot and DE and GG with JB helping out. CE as has been said earlier is another one who will play there also.

As far as Nolan is concerned - even if he wanted to not go to Butler he would have to get his release and why would Butler do that.

Even if we did go and get somebody else, why would you think they would be anymore ready to play next year then those who we already have and have been in the system a full year learing it. Once again, RM has little interest in Juccos because as he has said many times, it is hard to get them approved given our lack of certain degrees that Juccos tend to go to - in other words it is about finding a Jucco who wants to major in a degree we have.

Nolan has only given a verbal to Butler as he is only a junior so no release is necessary. However, I am in no way advocating us recruiting Nolan as I like the fact that basketball, for the most part, is not like football where an oral committment doesn't mean sheat. We should leave him alone as he has made his decision and we should respect it, and Butler. We'd want people to treat us the same.

[Cowboy]

-ace makes a good point about our not being used to having players sit the bench and then develop, i hope that plan bears a great amount of fruit in JM and GG progressing to contributors to solid players to studs and if they want to skip one of these steps more power to them

-not sure what RL wants to do with his future but if he wants to play in the league he has some work to do in all parts of his game, but to me he has made great strides since arrival and Rick using him as defensive sub shows that

-i still have hope that CR will have the light go on and he will provide quality minutes for us, please see that this is hope

-we could sure use winning two games in philly this week

[ACE]

A couple of points ----- I don't see RL developing too too much more as far as an interior player is concerned. He's come a long ways on defense, but is more the pick-n-pop guy, not the pick and roll guy most American bigs are.

On DE covering a four -- yes, covering a four will make drives on DE's defense less common, however, post up options might increase if he's a 6'5" kid covering a 6'9" four. Just saying, give a little, take a little.

JM playing in the NBA --- while that may be true, it comes back to the fact that you can't teach height. So far, there is not enough body of work to determine whether or not the skills are there. But tall guys get drafted or stick a whole lot easier so it seems.

roy's statements --- are typical and consistent for roy. He was brought into this by name. You know his views; let it go.

Players growing into roles --- yes, it should happen and yes, we are not used to it.

DE playing at the Conklin position and excelling --- that is another I'll believe when I see it. Right now, DE blows a lot of bunnies which I attribute to him being small and down amongst the trees. I doubt he grows any more so that will always be an issue. He needs to develop ala Conklin and go with it. Can he do it? I think so.

Ellis getting a low post game --- see RL. I personally don't believe so. Has he been overpowered this year? I don't think so but he seems on the brink. While he gets the most charges, he flops way too too much, limiting his rebounding ability while prone on his back. He is too weak to go toe-to-toe with traditional bigs, too vertically-challenged to defend/box out, and too slow of foot to stay up with athletic threes. On the flip side, he is a hard man to defend when on the offensive end but seems negated by quicker, athletic defnders.

I'll worry about next year when next year gets here. The sum of a team is the combination of its separate parts. I think all will imporve; been saying that about one player for three years now. And transfers do happen. No clue, other than it happens.

Yes Evans is 6-5, but Conklin is only 6-6. Evans has really added strength and is a better rebounder than Conklin. DE will be able to guard a lot of fours. We're not going to run up against a lot of great 6-9 power forwards, but when we do, we will have other defensive options. RM even played Manning and Loe together a little bit in some of the cupcake games. That could be an interesting pairing in the future.

Regarding roy, yes his name was mentioned, but it was hardly a shot at him and didn't warrant him naming two players who he feels will be "one and dones." Yes roy is consistent in taking his cheap shots at the coach, but he is anything but consistent regarding the role he has played on this board over the years. Back when the previous coach was here, roy used to preach how it was important that we all stay positive on the board about the program, because it may be read by friends and family of current players and recruits... and that in a way we should all be ambassadors for the program. Talking up the positives and projecting a good image were important. That roy is gone. Repeatedly dredging up apr score nonsense and his own critique of the coach's personality on a Billiken fan board doesn't project a good image. That's why it is good when it is called out, like has been done in this thread.

[The Pelican]

First of all the Greek kid redshirted because RM was concerned that he would have trouble adjusting academically if he had the stress of playing heaped on him. He said it was a language adjustment thing. As far as his ability to play goes only time will tell but my point would be if RM did not think he had potential then why sign him and then redshirt him? - he could have held on to the schollie and not have been any worse off. Now with that said - could kid get homesick and go back - sure but that is possible with any kid.

Kids go from the bench as freshmen to playing meaningful minutes - not major - as sophomores all the time so don't act like this is not in the realm of possibility. Glaze could easily play 10-15 minutes a game next year. JM is another one who can play in the paint - RM has said the kid is tough and he fully expects him to be playing next year. What would be wrong with RL and JM holding down the post spot and DE and GG with JB helping out. CE as has been said earlier is another one who will play there also.

As far as Nolan is concerned - even if he wanted to not go to Butler he would have to get his release and why would Butler do that.

Even if we did go and get somebody else, why would you think they would be anymore ready to play next year then those who we already have and have been in the system a full year learing it. Once again, RM has little interest in Juccos because as he has said many times, it is hard to get them approved given our lack of certain degrees that Juccos tend to go to - in other words it is about finding a Jucco who wants to major in a degree we have.

Cheese,

I know for a fact that it is not because of his English.

[slufanskip]

DE will not replace BC. Please quit, he's a 3 who can play some 4 in a small line-up. Instead of spending his time in the off season bulking up more, the best thing DE could do for himself is take the 1000 shots a day idea to heart and get it done. He'd have a much brighter future in the game if he'll develop a better shot than he will if he bulks up and becomes an undersized power forward.

GG is different he truly is a 4 and he'll be developed into one. He and DE may be the same height give or take an inch, but they are completely different players.

This is the one thing that kills me about Billiken fans. We've gotten so used to having nothing at the 4 spot that we want to turn every 6'5" kid that can board into a 4.

We'll have RL, CE, and GG at the 4 next year with RL probably playing some 5 also. We'll be fine there. We'll have JM, CR, and some RL at the 5. JM won't score the 15 ppg that Conk is next year, but he'll rebound better and probably pass out of the post better. We'll use the post differently next year. We'll also have more experience at the guards as our current guards will all be more experienced and have another off season under their belt. We only lose KC which is becoming less of a loss every week

[moytoy12]

A couple of points ----- I don't see RL developing too too much more as far as an interior player is concerned. He's come a long ways on defense, but is more the pick-n-pop guy, not the pick and roll guy most American bigs are.

On DE covering a four -- yes, covering a four will make drives on DE's defense less common, however, post up options might increase if he's a 6'5" kid covering a 6'9" four. Just saying, give a little, take a little.

JM playing in the NBA --- while that may be true, it comes back to the fact that you can't teach height. So far, there is not enough body of work to determine whether or not the skills are there. But tall guys get drafted or stick a whole lot easier so it seems.

roy's statements --- are typical and consistent for roy. He was brought into this by name. You know his views; let it go.

Players growing into roles --- yes, it should happen and yes, we are not used to it.

DE playing at the Conklin position and excelling --- that is another I'll believe when I see it. Right now, DE blows a lot of bunnies which I attribute to him being small and down amongst the trees. I doubt he grows any more so that will always be an issue. He needs to develop ala Conklin and go with it. Can he do it? I think so.

Ellis getting a low post game --- see RL. I personally don't believe so. Has he been overpowered this year? I don't think so but he seems on the brink. While he gets the most charges, he flops way too too much, limiting his rebounding ability while prone on his back. He is too weak to go toe-to-toe with traditional bigs, too vertically-challenged to defend/box out, and too slow of foot to stay up with athletic threes. On the flip side, he is a hard man to defend when on the offensive end but seems negated by quicker, athletic defnders.

I'll worry about next year when next year gets here. The sum of a team is the combination of its separate parts. I think all will imporve; been saying that about one player for three years now. And transfers do happen. No clue, other than it happens.

Not sure I agree with the statement on RL. He's a sophomore. He's got plenty of time to improve all aspects of his game. I'm not giving up on the his interior game (or lack thereof) after 1.75 years with RM.

CE has shown some slick moves in the post, but they have been very rare this year. Also, I wonder if part of the game plan is to keep him out on the wing when Conk is in the game (opening up space for our undersized PF). I'm not giving up on CE's inside game either. He has shown flashes.

I suspect our starting lineup will look something like RL, CE, DE, MM/JJ, KM. It would not surprise me to see JM and RL get a lot of time together. Off the bench you'll have JJ/MM, JM, JB, Carter, CR, Drew, Glaze, and ET (in that order). Yes, we have a hole at the 4 spot, but I don't think it will be as bad as people think.

[jbizzle09]

DE will not replace BC. Please quit, he's a 3 who can play some 4 in a small line-up. Instead of spending his time in the off season bulking up more, the best thing DE could do for himself is take the 1000 shots a day idea to heart and get it done. He'd have a much brighter future in the game if he'll develop a better shot than he will if he bulks up and becomes an undersized power forward.

GG is different he truly is a 4 and he'll be developed into one. He and DE may be the same height give or take an inch, but they are completely different players.

This is the one thing that kills me about Billiken fans. We've gotten so used to having nothing at the 4 spot that we want to turn every 6'5" kid that can board into a 4.

We'll have RL, CE, and GG at the 4 next year with RL probably playing some 5 also. We'll be fine there. We'll have JM, CR, and some RL at the 5. JM won't score the 15 ppg that Conk is next year, but he'll rebound better and probably pass out of the post better. We'll use the post differently next year. We'll also have more experience at the guards as our current guards will all be more experienced and have another off season under their belt. We only lose KC which is becoming less of a loss every week

Great post, skip. Could not have said it better myself.

[The Pelican]

DE will not replace BC. Please quit, he's a 3 who can play some 4 in a small line-up. Instead of spending his time in the off season bulking up more, the best thing DE could do for himself is take the 1000 shots a day idea to heart and get it done. He'd have a much brighter future in the game if he'll develop a better shot than he will if he bulks up and becomes an undersized power forward.

GG is different he truly is a 4 and he'll be developed into one. He and DE may be the same height give or take an inch, but they are completely different players.

This is the one thing that kills me about Billiken fans. We've gotten so used to having nothing at the 4 spot that we want to turn every 6'5" kid that can board into a 4.

We'll have RL, CE, and GG at the 4 next year with RL probably playing some 5 also. We'll be fine there. We'll have JM, CR, and some RL at the 5. JM won't score the 15 ppg that Conk is next year, but he'll rebound better and probably pass out of the post better. We'll use the post differently next year. We'll also have more experience at the guards as our current guards will all be more experienced and have another off season under their belt. We only lose KC which is becoming less of a loss every week

This is a very good post.

[billiken_roy]

As far as Nolan is concerned - even if he wanted to not go to Butler he would have to get his release and why would Butler do that.

nolan has not signed a letter of intent and can go wherever he wants. he cannot officially commit to butler or any other school until november. so as of right now, butler cant do a darn thing.

[billiken_roy]

Yes Evans is 6-5, but Conklin is only 6-6. Evans has really added strength and is a better rebounder than Conklin. DE will be able to guard a lot of fours. We're not going to run up against a lot of great 6-9 power forwards, but when we do, we will have other defensive options. RM even played Manning and Loe together a little bit in some of the cupcake games. That could be an interesting pairing in the future. Regarding roy, yes his name was mentioned, but it was hardly a shot at him and didn't warrant him naming two players who he feels will be "one and dones." Yes roy is consistent in taking his cheap shots at the coach, but he is anything but consistent regarding the role he has played on this board over the years. Back when the previous coach was here, roy used to preach how it was important that we all stay positive on the board about the program, because it may be read by friends and family of current players and recruits... and that in a way we should all be ambassadors for the program. Talking up the positives and projecting a good image were important. That roy is gone. Repeatedly dredging up apr score nonsense and his own critique of the coach's personality on a Billiken fan board doesn't project a good image. That's why it is good when it is called out, like has been done in this thread.

damn right that roy is gone. gone when we hired rickma. and again, it is you who is fueling the fire acey.

[ACE]

We will continue to have a lot of lineup combinations next year, just like this year. I envision DE will continue to play at the 3/4. He can create potential match-up problems at both positions depending on who we are playing against. One reason I think DE will continue to get some time at the 4 is that we will still be able to throw out a nice three-guard lineup. I love it when JJ, MM and KM all play at the same time, plus Carter and Barnett will likley factor into some three-guard lineups. That is not to mention the possibility that Drew (if he is good enough) could get some minutes at the 3, with DE at the four. And then going in a different direction, RL, CE and DE at the 3 together on the frontline presents an interesting look. It's nice to have options.

[kmbilliken]

Even Cory will likely pick up a few of Conklin's minutes. While he doesn't do much offensively, he is a better rebounder and shotblocker than Conklin. And if Manning gets in the mix, he gets us another true big in the mix. I am also very optimistic about Grandy. He seems to have Conklin's attitude combined with more athleticism, but can he develop the finer points of the game that BC is so good at?

I don't see Cory being a better rebounder than Conklin. He's the player I least expect to show any improvement since he hasn't shown much, if any, from freshman to now.

[ACE]

damn right that roy is gone. gone when we hired rickma. and again, it is you who is fueling the fire acey.

I'm not fueling anything. After you took the cheap shot of naming two kids as potential one and dones and dredged up the apr nonsense again, these were some of the responses from your fellow billikenboarders...

"Let's not start this crap!" - Absurd Bills Fan

"This is a ridiculous & unfair post. It's not cool to name a player's name as a possible transfer in the middle of the season. Neither of those two has done anything to deserve that." - Billsrmajic

It once again confirms that all of your lectures about how we should all be good ambassadors by being positive on the board were bullsh!t.

[billiken_roy]

when a poster brings my name up, i am going to defend myself and my positions. the guy that started the thread knew that there was only one way we could bring in additonal players and he knows i detest that or he wouldnt have posted my name. he also knew i would defend that. deal with it acey. it is my opinion. no where did i state it is a fact. and compared to the attacks that kyle cassity took last week, this is nothing. i didnt see you and the rest of the majerus brigade defending cassity last week. so dont get all high and mighty now.

[ACE]

I stand corrected. I thought Cory had gotten more rebounds per minute for his career than BC, but that is not the case. It would seem Cory should be a better rebounder. It is interesting to note that in his few minutes, he is the team's leading shot blocker. More minutes from Cory and Manning next year should increase our blocked shots. It was nice having Willie back there bringing that element to the team.

[ACE]

when a poster brings my name up, i am going to defend myself and my positions. the guy that started the thread knew that there was only one way we could bring in additonal players and he knows i detest that or he wouldnt have posted my name. he also knew i would defend that. deal with it acey. it is my opinion. no where did i state it is a fact. and compared to the attacks that kyle cassity took last week, this is nothing. i didnt see you and the rest of the majerus brigade defending cassity last week. so dont get all high and mighty now.

You felt like you had to defend yourself against this comment?... "Anybody have any insight into the Bills recruiting a big man for next year's team -- maybe a juco player? I know they technically don't have any scholarships, but I'm sure they can work that part out (sorry Roy)."

Come on. That was hardly a shot at you, just an acknowledgement that you are a vocal opponent of that practice... so your response is to name two players who you think are going to leave? Nice. What about all of those friends and family of players who you used to act like you were concerned about? Regarding Cassity, I've hardly been a basher. Seems like a great kid, but I have felt like his minutes should be cut and they have. Nothing personal against KC. I don't recall any criticisms of KC on this board that were over the top. If I saw something, I would have called it out.

The Majerus Brigade... I like that... and you can be the leader of Sodie's soldiers. I like our chances in the epic battle between the RM Brigade and Sodie's soldiers!

[kshoe]

The Majerus Brigade... I like that... and you can be the leader of Sodie's soldiers. I like our chances in the epic battle between the RM Brigade and Sodie's soldiers!

You mean the epic battle of evil vs. good?

[billiken_roy]

You felt like you had to defend yourself against this comment?... "Anybody have any insight into the Bills recruiting a big man for next year's team -- maybe a juco player? I know they technically don't have any scholarships, but I'm sure they can work that part out (sorry Roy)." Come on. That was hardly a shot at you, just an acknowledgement that you are a vocal opponent of that practice... so your response is to name two players who you think are going to leave? Nice. What about all of those friends and family of players who you used to act like you were concerned about? Regarding Cassity, I've hardly been a basher. Seems like a great kid, but I have felt like his minutes should be cut and they have. Nothing personal against KC. I don't recall any criticisms of KC on this board that were over the top. If I saw something, I would have called it out. The Majerus Brigade... I like that... and you can be the leader of Sodie's soldiers. I like our chances in the epic battle between the RM Brigade and Sodie's soldiers!

dont label me as a soderberg booster. he is long gone and isnt coming back. not sure why you cling to that thought. you must be very insecure about soderberg. i for one recognize he is gone and isnt coming back. i sure hope at some point you can deal with it as well.

and as to our players, i do care about them. i wouldnt have a single one ever leave unless they didnt do the job in the classroom or were not good citizens. no where will you see i ever advocated getting rid of a player because of their basketball skills.

and last, i never said you bashed cassity. i did accuse you of not defending him when many others bashed him. there is a difference.

[RiseAndGrind]

Geeze.

We've heard it from Majerus himself. GG is like Charles Barkley and John Manning is going to the NBA.

As long as Grandy avoids Barkley's gambling habits, and his preferences for hookers, we should be alright.

Get a room Ace and Roy. We are 18-5. Who the f cares about Brad? I don't care who started it. I'm about to lay the smackdown on both of you.

IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLL

[Billiken4life5]

Something no one has mentioned is that our coaching staff should be much more stable this summer than last summer. Last summer we had Moser leaving, Jensen leaving, and Rick dealing with his mother's death. Having all our coaches around this summer can only help our player development.

[moytoy12]

Something no one has mentioned is that our coaching staff should be much more stable this summer than last summer. Last summer we had Moser leaving, Jensen leaving, and Rick dealing with his mother's death. Having all our coaches around this summer can only help our player development.

I'm guessing Crews will be gone after this year, but otherwise, good point.

[ACE]

dont label me as a soderberg booster. he is long gone and isnt coming back. not sure why you cling to that thought. you must be very insecure about soderberg. i for one recognize he is gone and isnt coming back. i sure hope at some point you can deal with it as well.

and as to our players, i do care about them. i wouldnt have a single one ever leave unless they didnt do the job in the classroom or were not good citizens. no where will you see i ever advocated getting rid of a player because of their basketball skills.

and last, i never said you bashed cassity. i did accuse you of not defending him when many others bashed him. there is a difference.

Really... I guess it is just a coincidence that you repeatedly encouraged us all to be positive ambassadors for the program during the Sodie era and didn't like criticism of the coach then.... yet are now among the most negative about the program.

[ACE]

I'm guessing Crews will be gone after this year, but otherwise, good point.

This will be a good opportunity for RM to find an assistant who could open up a new recruiting pipeline. RM seems to have a lot of connections in Minn, Wi., Chicago and we've been active in Indianapolis. Whitesell also helps cover Chicago and apparently helped sway Carter our way. Harriman has the international thing, which BTW, is it time to land another one from Down Under for 2013? I would like to see us add an assistant with East Coast connections.Being in the A-10, I think that would make some sense. As we have more success, we will become more attractive. Xavier has been able to get some East Coast players over the years.

[billiken_roy]

Really... I guess it is just a coincidence that you repeatedly encouraged us all to be positive ambassadors for the program during the Sodie era and didn't like criticism of the coach then.... yet are now among the most negative about the program.

i was positive about the program long before soderberg came to town. i am on record as stating i think romar and spoon and grawer were all three better for the program than soderberg. i am not negative about "THE PROGRAM". I admit i am negative about rickma. but not the program or the student athletes or saint louis university.

you are probably right that is in conflict with scoldings i handed out prior to majerus coming to town. that's a shame that rickma has changed my overall everything is billiken blue attitude. oh well. at least i remain a fan, and i remain a booster of everything not rickma.

i will continue to act the same until rickma changes his ways or leaves. i am planning to be a saint louis university booster long after he has left town. so i keep buying my tickets. i keep donating my money. i keep supporting the student athletes. i assume you are doing it all as well right Acey?

[cheeseman]

My understanding is that Nolan has only given a verbal. It is too early for him to sigh a LOI.

Really, are you saying he did not sign in the fall?