billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, BrettJollyComedyHour said: It's too pointy, I miss the soft edge Billiken I grew up with on my Boomer dad's sweatshirts Yes, I grew up on it too. It looked meh on merchandise. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettJollyComedyHour Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: Yes, I grew up on it too. It looked meh on merchandise. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug my friend. It drives our generation's economic decisions sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle and stick with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: Yes, I grew up on it too. It looked meh on merchandise. Nostalgia is a dangerous drug my friend. Nostalgia is all we have now NextYearBill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, wgstl said: Nostalgia is all we have now Keep it recreational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu92 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 After last nights game I walked through Champion’s Center, while very nice, it’s just a building. I wondered how in the world did Chris May not prepare for NIL world over building this place? I get a good program can and should do both. But SLU can’t seem to do more than one thing good at a time. How you don’t prioritize NIL esp if you are the AD and attend all those NCAA meetings is beyond me. If anyone thinks just firing Ford and not May is the answer, then get ready for more of what we have now. The guy might be the greatest person in the world, however he is not a serious or strategic/smart AD. It’s almost like he genuinely believed if I build this champions center, people will be so happy and want to just dump money into the program. Backwards and short sighted, which describes Chris May perfectly. Hard to defend keeping him and firing Ford. Kind of like cutting off a leg bc of diabetes but not addressing the person whose lifestyle choices caused the diabetes and just giving him another candy bar and saying it’s not your fault, still have one leg left, we are so lucky! SLU_Lax, NextYearBill and TaLBErt like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 26 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: The logo is actually not bad, I’ll defend it. The mascot is what happens when you let one person run wild with no oversight. I agree - it looks better on merch and it shows up WAY better on the graphics that are used online, for TV highlights, etc. And just anecdotally, kids seem to like it - I've seen way more kids wearing SLU gear in the last few years. MusicCityBilliken, cgeldmacher, majerus mojo and 2 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 26 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: i understand the board's negative feelings. Trust me, i am very unhappy as well. I was saying after his first year at SLU he was a terrible floor coach, practice coach and talent developer. But I defended him solely on his recruiting ability. He has consistently had more talent on his teams from an overall viewpoint than any Billiken coach in my fandom in my opinion however his overall coaching abilities never maximized what talent we had. So why is this roster all at once so lacking in talent compared to years past? Simply because the recruiting angle has died. It is all about the money now and the warm and fuzzy "make them want to be here" approach he has been successful with over his entire career to bring in players, is all but gone now. The players want to get paid and if SLU doesnt some other program will. Therefore, Ford is worthless now in my opinion. However, while I havent see it, the very likely rumor is he has quite the contract that will be very expensive to buyout. It will involve him working off his contract for a few years before it will be possible to get rid of him unless one of the whales steps forward and pays. Then keep in mind, there is the matter of the replacement coach. How much will that cost? What length of time will that commit be? What's the point if SLU wont go all in with the portal and the the paying of our players? So if you consider, SLU apparently wasnt going to play in the bigtime aspect of NiL, so what crumbs we got have definitely not panned out to compete. We also believe that he didnt get fired this past spring because the buyout was prohibitive. With those two financial near certain aspects in mind, what makes any of you think anything is going to happen soon? Oh slu has the means, a multi-billion dollar unrestricted endowment fund is just sitting there and never used. But apparently SLU needs that for flash and bragging rights. So get that out of our heads. We are screwed for the near future. I have started to believe we arent even a D1 program with the new circumstances. I doubt i would become a rabid D3 fan like I am nowwith the Billikens, but as long as the powers to be at SLU continue to ignore our wants, there isnt much us common folk can do and all the complaining and threats, etc, arent going to help. in all liklihood, only total ekkertime absense and caring will make them even consider anything drastic compared to where we are now. i'd suggest finding another passion. Roy, I feel you on this, I'm not sure what stage of grief this happens to be. However, I do think the $2.5mil/year is paid by a booster or a few boosters. We learned from fairly anonymous but likely credible sources that SLU has approx $400K in the BVF. So I think boosters are spending the money. My question is are they fed up enough to pay Ford to walk? I think they have to be. If your name is on an empty building that's a hit to your ego. If you have money to try and buy NBA franchises then you have the money to pay Ford to walk. My concern is are they too close to the situation, too snowed by "good guy" Ford to see the problem? $2.5mil/year is out of whack with the league and results. Adjust that to $1.5 the other money goes into NIL or NIL stays at $400K, I think we can compete. Need a coach that can find players to fit a system and coach em up every season because turn over will continue to be a thing. The right coach can win right away, look at Will Wade at McNeese St. from 328 rank in turn overs to best in the nation, from 11-23 last season to 11-2 right now with a win at Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 28 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: i understand the board's negative feelings. Trust me, i am very unhappy as well. I was saying after his first year at SLU he was a terrible floor coach, practice coach and talent developer. But I defended him solely on his recruiting ability. He has consistently had more talent on his teams from an overall viewpoint than any Billiken coach in my fandom in my opinion however his overall coaching abilities never maximized what talent we had. So why is this roster all at once so lacking in talent compared to years past? Simply because the recruiting angle has died. It is all about the money now and the warm and fuzzy "make them want to be here" approach he has been successful with over his entire career to bring in players, is all but gone now. The players want to get paid and if SLU doesnt some other program will. Therefore, Ford is worthless now in my opinion. However, while I havent see it, the very likely rumor is he has quite the contract that will be very expensive to buyout. It will involve him working off his contract for a few years before it will be possible to get rid of him unless one of the whales steps forward and pays. Then keep in mind, there is the matter of the replacement coach. How much will that cost? What length of time will that commit be? What's the point if SLU wont go all in with the portal and the the paying of our players? So if you consider, SLU apparently wasnt going to play in the bigtime aspect of NiL, so what crumbs we got have definitely not panned out to compete. We also believe that he didnt get fired this past spring because the buyout was prohibitive. With those two financial near certain aspects in mind, what makes any of you think anything is going to happen soon? Oh slu has the means, a multi-billion dollar unrestricted endowment fund is just sitting there and never used. But apparently SLU needs that for flash and bragging rights. So get that out of our heads. We are screwed for the near future. I have started to believe we arent even a D1 program with the new circumstances. I doubt i would become a rabid D3 fan like I am nowwith the Billikens, but as long as the powers to be at SLU continue to ignore our wants, there isnt much us common folk can do and all the complaining and threats, etc, arent going to help. in all liklihood, only total ekkertime absense and caring will make them even consider anything drastic compared to where we are now. i'd suggest finding another passion. I get what you're saying Roy; frankly i don't really care as much if it's just pro sports(which it is) as you do. I do agree that apathy is the best recourse; Ford is gone once the costs to keep him outweigh the costs to fire him. From that perspective I hear you. I think that the calls to not be outraged or enraged or calling out the crummy AD and mediocrity acceptance of the school is grossly misplaced. We disagree on a lot, but i know perfectly well that you know what you're looking at out there on the court. I just think you're wrong on this and being enraged at and calling for Ford to be gone remains effective and fans should continue to do so, vehemently. SLU already invested in a D1 program with this champions center and Chaifetz arena. That ship already sailed. I never thought Ford would actually be here for 8 years. These long-running coaching contracts are just idiotic. Noone was ever coming to get CTF. We took a has-been, knew we were taking a has-been, and signed him up like he was Shaka Smart. Nuts. TaLBErt and NextYearBill like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 35 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: So why is this roster all at once so lacking in talent compared to years past? Simply because the recruiting angle has died. It is all about the money now and the warm and fuzzy "make them want to be here" approach he has been successful with over his entire career to bring in players, is all but gone now. The players want to get paid and if SLU doesnt some other program will. Ford's recruiting recruiting results have not been acceptable since the the Yuri/Jimerson/Hargrove class in 2019. The bad recruiting results actually started before NIL. That said, Ford's recruiting in retrospect has been overrated all along. We all just bought into the hype because as fans we wanted to believe. He only had one great recruiting class. The class with French and Goodwin. Even that class was marred by taking risk with questionable character transfers that almost destroyed the Ford era before it even really got started. The "best recruiter ever at SLU" has actually recruited less talent to SLU over his time period than Grawer, Spoon and Majerus. Just stack up the names they brought into the program and compare them to those Ford did. It really isn't close. MusicCityBilliken, billikenfan05, JMM28 and 6 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, Soderball said: Noone was ever coming to get CTF. Reece Davis on College Gameday said, "If nobody wants your coach, eventually you won't want him either." 2010andBeyond and NextYearBill like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Jordan Goodwin and Hasahn French masked a lot of Ford’s deficiencies. Travis owes them millions of dollars, because there’s no way he has a job here still without those two. NextYearBill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I don't think theres ever been a positive result from a "Well we can't afford to fire him" situation. The sh!t buffet from not firing someone is worse than eating the sh!t sandwich of firing. Apathy sets in with the fan base. Why should fans care if the administration doesn't? Recruiting falls off (Happened this offseason) because every other coach/handler is saying "Oh yeah Travis won't be there soon" Boosters say "why should I give to this show?" Donations fall off. National prestige falls because the losing continues for multiple years, ie DePaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 At least we all have come to some sort of an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said: Is Travis Ford’s salary paid by SLU from gross income or is it paid via donations to the AD? If it’s the latter and people are willing to spend 2.5 million per year on a coach, we absolutely have a wealth of NIL money if you hire a coach at 1, 1.5 or even 2 million per year. I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again, that if I was Travis Ford and my salary came from donations I would have asked to renegotiate my contract to 1.5 or 2 million with the understanding that those who put up the money for my salary instead donate to the BVF. more directly to your post this is the sunk cost fallacy. You do understand that you’re paying Ford his full contract regardless. If you don’t cut bait after this year you’re wasting precious time you could be spending with your family actually enjoy going to Billiken games. -I doubt it -HOWEVER, what is keeping CFord from giving to BVF? perhaps he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Cowboy II said: -I doubt it -HOWEVER, what is keeping CFord from giving to BVF? perhaps he is So you doubt that I would make that decision? It's the easiest decision I'd ever make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Cowboy II said: -I doubt it -HOWEVER, what is keeping CFord from giving to BVF? perhaps he is Why? If im Ford, I do this betting on myself that in 2-3 years it will set me up for a bigger contract - potentially at a bigger school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, slu92 said: After last nights game I walked through Champion’s Center, while very nice, it’s just a building. I wondered how in the world did Chris May not prepare for NIL world over building this place? I get a good program can and should do both. But SLU can’t seem to do more than one thing good at a time. How you don’t prioritize NIL esp if you are the AD and attend all those NCAA meetings is beyond me. If anyone thinks just firing Ford and not May is the answer, then get ready for more of what we have now. The guy might be the greatest person in the world, however he is not a serious or strategic/smart AD. It’s almost like he genuinely believed if I build this champions center, people will be so happy and want to just dump money into the program. Backwards and short sighted, which describes Chris May perfectly. Hard to defend keeping him and firing Ford. Kind of like cutting off a leg bc of diabetes but not addressing the person whose lifestyle choices caused the diabetes and just giving him another candy bar and saying it’s not your fault, still have one leg left, we are so lucky! now you are just being unreasonable. the champions center was planned and fund raised and construction started before NIL was ever dreamed would be allowed. i am sure if we could turn back time things would be different. but to blame that on Chris May is reasonable. AGB91 and Adman like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, wgstl said: Why? If im Ford, I do this betting on myself that in 2-3 years it will set me up for a bigger contract - potentially at a bigger school. In my mind, this is the only scenario in which Ford is allowed to keep his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, wgstl said: Why? If im Ford, I do this betting on myself that in 2-3 years it will set me up for a bigger contract - potentially at a bigger school. Ford's next stop after SLU is either retirement or Berea College. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: So you doubt that I would make that decision? It's the easiest decision I'd ever make. You're a crazy SLU alumnus and fan. Ford isn't, he's an employee. We love SLU so we'd do this to win. He won't. So the point is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: i understand the board's negative feelings. Trust me, i am very unhappy as well. I was saying after his first year at SLU he was a terrible floor coach, practice coach and talent developer. But I defended him solely on his recruiting ability. He has consistently had more talent on his teams from an overall viewpoint than any Billiken coach in my fandom in my opinion however his overall coaching abilities never maximized what talent we had. So why is this roster all at once so lacking in talent compared to years past? Simply because the recruiting angle has died. It is all about the money now and the warm and fuzzy "make them want to be here" approach he has been successful with over his entire career to bring in players, is all but gone now. The players want to get paid and if SLU doesnt some other program will. Therefore, Ford is worthless now in my opinion. However, while I havent see it, the very likely rumor is he has quite the contract that will be very expensive to buyout. It will involve him working off his contract for a few years before it will be possible to get rid of him unless one of the whales steps forward and pays. Then keep in mind, there is the matter of the replacement coach. How much will that cost? What length of time will that commit be? What's the point if SLU wont go all in with the portal and the the paying of our players? So if you consider, SLU apparently wasnt going to play in the bigtime aspect of NiL, so what crumbs we got have definitely not panned out to compete. We also believe that he didnt get fired this past spring because the buyout was prohibitive. With those two financial near certain aspects in mind, what makes any of you think anything is going to happen soon? Oh slu has the means, a multi-billion dollar unrestricted endowment fund is just sitting there and never used. But apparently SLU needs that for flash and bragging rights. So get that out of our heads. We are screwed for the near future. I have started to believe we arent even a D1 program with the new circumstances. I doubt i would become a rabid D3 fan like I am nowwith the Billikens, but as long as the powers to be at SLU continue to ignore our wants, there isnt much us common folk can do and all the complaining and threats, etc, arent going to help. in all liklihood, only total ekkertime absense and caring will make them even consider anything drastic compared to where we are now. i'd suggest finding another passion. You keep bringing this up and I keep telling you it's not going to happen, but I figured I might as well try to explain why we can't pay high coaching salaries (or NIL) out of the endowment. 1. The endowment is not a single fund. An endowment the size of SLU's is likely thousands of individual donor fund accounts that generate spendable interest in perpetuity. Endowments exist to provide guaranteed sources of funding, not as a rainy day fund. 2. Fundraising campaigns generally fall into 4 categories: 1. student support (scholarships, fellowships, etc.), 2. academic program support, 3. faculty support, and 4. capital projects. Category 1 is generally the largest, and the most important as college becomes increasingly unaffordable. Growth in the endowment fund needs to keep up with tuition increases to ensure that scholarships are as valuable in the future as they are today. 3. Many funds within the endowment are restricted. However, even unrestricted endowment funds represent donations from individual donors and if they see them getting used in ways that could be seen as irresponsible - how many would see buying out a bad coaching contract, for example - it's going to create discontent among the last group of people a university wants to alienate. 4. In most states, there are laws that protect donor intent and ensure prudent use of gifts given to institutions to be available through investment and investment income. In other words, if the school were to use endowment funds/income for buying out a contact or paying an exorbitant salary, it would open itself up to possible (let's be honest, probable) litigation. 4a. In fact, there are legal terms established when funds are accepted into the endowment that say that the funds must be invested according to the school's investment policies, only a certain percentage of annual earnings may be spent, earnings over the allowable spend amount must be reinvested, and funds can't be disbursed if the investment loses money until it is back above water. 5. A lot of funds are not paid out in full to the university at the time they are announced. Someone may make a $10 million gift that pays out over 10-20 years, for example. I'll sum this up with an example that I find helpful from Inside Higher Ed: "Let’s say an institution invests its $50 million endowment, and the spending policy allows the institution to spend 4 percent of annual earnings. If 8 percent was earned (or $4 million) in a particular year, then $2 million can be spent, and $2 million will be added to the $50 million endowment. As a result, there is $52 million to invest the following year, and if the return is equal to the previous year, then there will be $2,080,000 to spend, and the endowment grows to $54 million, and so on. OK. So now you understand that an endowment of $50 million may only add $2 million to the annual budget. You think, “Hey, $2 million is nothing to sneeze at. I can think of a lot we could do with $2 million.” But one must remember that the original $50 million endowment is made from a bunch of smaller endowments. Most of these smaller endowments have restrictions about what the money can be used to fund. Theoretically, the breakdown could look like this: 50 percent is restricted to scholarships, 25 percent to programmatic support, 15 percent to athletics, 8 percent to specific positions and 2 percent to unrestricted general purposes. In this scenario, that would mean there is only about $40,000 that is unrestricted (can be used for any purpose)." tl;dr - We can't use the endowment to buy out Ford's contract. Your line "so get that out of our heads" is accurate. I hope this helps. MusicCityBilliken and willie like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 51 minutes ago, JMM28 said: I don't think theres ever been a positive result from a "Well we can't afford to fire him" situation. The sh!t buffet from not firing someone is worse than eating the sh!t sandwich of firing. Apathy sets in with the fan base. Why should fans care if the administration doesn't? Recruiting falls off (Happened this offseason) because every other coach/handler is saying "Oh yeah Travis won't be there soon" Boosters say "why should I give to this show?" Donations fall off. National prestige falls because the losing continues for multiple years, ie DePaul. you got the money to fund the separation and the hiring of a new coach that will win almost immediately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Soderball said: Ford's next stop after SLU is either retirement or Berea College. Ha I've been thinking Berea is where he'll end up too. Western KY has a history of hiring good coaches so not there maybe Northern KY? We all need KY after the poundings we've received on the court this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, TheA_Bomb said: You're a crazy SLU alumnus and fan. Ford isn't, he's an employee. We love SLU so we'd do this to win. He won't. So the point is moot. I mean, does Travis want to win? I would do it anywhere, anytime if I was in Ford's spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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