Response to the Poll

[OkieBilliken]

In response to the poll - I answered NO - May should not be fired.   

SLU should be judged by the performance of their men's basketball team as it is the driver of the revenue, and then the performance of the other teams.    

As we all know the progress of the men's team has stagnated and for that reason Travis Ford should be on the hot seat.   However, with his contract, if the influential alums or the university board is unwilling to eat that buyout, May's options seem pretty limited to me.   Yes they can market the team better.  They can generate excitement and get the city more involved, but none of that can help a team that literally doesn't have a D1 level power forward or center.     

Where I will change my mind on May will be with the other sports.  IMO SLU has some of the best coaches they have ever had.   I wouldnt replace Shields, Hendrickson, Kalish or TIllett with any coaches in the country.   I think the volleyball new coach is going to fit into this group eventually and didnt softball win their first conference title ever last year?   May deserves significant credit for hiring and/or retaining them.    If that core group starts vacating for greener pastures, then I wholeheartedly agree May has to go.   

 

 

[billikenfan05]

13 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

In response to the poll - I answered NO - May should not be fired.   

SLU should be judged by the performance of their men's basketball team as it is the driver of the revenue, and then the performance of the other teams.    

The non-revenue sports depend on Men's Basketball for $$$. May is doing a disservice to all the successful non-rev coaches he's brought in. A Hendo quote to always remember: "You see that hitting facility? Men's basketball won a mess of games, that's why we have that facility. That's why we support Men's Basketball."

As we all know the progress of the men's team has stagnated and for that reason Travis Ford should be on the hot seat.   However, with his contract, if the influential alums or the university board is unwilling to eat that buyout, May's options seem pretty limited to me.   Yes they can market the team better.  They can generate excitement and get the city more involved, but none of that can help a team that literally doesn't have a D1 level power forward or center. 

Travis Ford's buyout is the direct result of the most ludicrous contract I've ever heard of. It auto extends every year until either SLU or Ford declines the option. That means until May declines the option, Travis always has 4 years left on his contract. Meanwhile we've heard stories of other coaches only getting one year extensions at a time.   

Where I will change my mind on May will be with the other sports.  IMO SLU has some of the best coaches they have ever had.   I wouldnt replace Shields, Hendrickson, Kalish or TIllett with any coaches in the country.   I think the volleyball new coach is going to fit into this group eventually and didnt softball win their first conference title ever last year?   May deserves significant credit for hiring and/or retaining them. If that core group starts vacating for greener pastures, then I wholeheartedly agree May has to go.   

Softball head coach should have been on the hot seat until they won the A10 championship, they choked away the Tournament though. That being said, Softball and Baseball have won in spite of Chris May. Neither team has basic division 1 facilities, you know this.
Shields hiring was hitting the lotto, she just happened to be an assistant when Kat Mertz bolted after one year. Kalish was a Kavanaugh directed hire, May was a figurehead. Tillett has been awesome so far but should be given an "Incomplete" grade.
Bottom line: if May does not turn this basketball program around you are going to see these coaches bail because, as I posted above, they rely heavily on Basketball for revenue.

The high turnover within non-sport staff is a major red flag not to be ignored. The wash, rinse and repeat nightmare stories of those who have left the athletic department, going back a decade, should be enough to show May the door. Underpaid, overworked, micromanaged, under appreciated while being preached the idea of gratitude. Hire young people out of college for peanuts and work them to the bone til they realize it’s not worth it. It’s been the same story, over and over.

 

 

[OkieBilliken]

33 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

 

I agree on a few of your points, but I hope (pray) that the situation isn't as dire as you are describing.   I think its a bit of a weak argument that he gets credit for nothing.   If Katie Shields or Darin Hendrickson were that unhappy or their teams were treated that shabbily, they could find other gigs in about 15 minutes.   If they do bail. I will help you lead the charge.   But until then, with all SLU sports i am irrationally optimistic.    

[TheA_Bomb]

Thanks for the reasoned response. I turned off messages on the poll as to try and avoid biasing the poll.  I generally want to see if I'm on an island in my view.

Why I believe Chris May should be fired. 

I think May is just OK. Non-basketball sports are doing well. The problem is that we rely on basketball to help fuel the department. College sports changed in multiple ways.  The portal, NIL and realignment all hit. Anyone paying attention saw realignment and NIL coming.  May didn't seem to be ready for any of it.  Is DePaul an better Sports program than SLU? Only thing they have going for them is being in a bigger city.  In a streaming world that means nothing it's fan following.  Even in these dark days, I'd wager we have more than DePaul. So why are they in the BE and we're in a diminishing A10? You can claim that was a Biondi error, perhaps but the athletics advisor to the  president and board is May.

We're unable to make a change at Head Coach because May's terrible negotiating. If $2.5mil/year is correct he's paid 6X more than most other A10 coaches! Offering such a contract was not in line with the market or reality. It could be argued that it's a BoT or booster mistake.  Again he's the advisor on these matters and this reckless spending is unforgivable.

The mistakes by the AD have piled up.  Most of the mistakes are unforced errors.  They include: mishandling the band; compliance errors; continued social media gaffes; terrible roll out of the new mascot; GameDay operations; poor fan/alumni engagement.

Not directly in the AD'S control is the BVF.  I would think that he'd be a key influence on the organization.  If so it's bad. 1 they lack engagement. 2 they lack funds to compete. 3 they seem to be focused on the wrong things. 

To be successful a sports program needs alignment the administration fans and teams most be aligned.  We don't have it.  I see no vision, no cohesive plan in a time of much change we've only fallen further behind.  So we need to change.

Need to fire May by January so the new AD can be hired and start preparing to replace Ford in March.

 https://www.midmajormadness.com/2019/11/4/20946421/ncaa-basketball-head-coach-contract-salary-database-mid-major-2019-20

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

I agree on a few of your points, but I hope (pray) that the situation isn't as dire as you are describing.   I think its a bit of a weak argument that he gets credit for nothing.   If Katie Shields or Darin Hendrickson were that unhappy or their teams were treated that shabbily, they could find other gigs in about 15 minutes.   If they do bail. I will help you lead the charge.   But until then, with all SLU sports i am irrationally optimistic.    

May worships the ground that Kalish and Shields walk on, and rightfully so. 

[Cowboy II]

-do we know it is a FACT about CFord's rolling contract extension?

[SLUMedBilliken15]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

May worships the ground that Kalish and Shields walk on, and rightfully so. 

I know Kalish has recent success, so he gets a break, but Kalish's underperformance this year rivals Ford's last year.

[billikenfan05]

1 minute ago, SLUMedBilliken15 said:

I know Kalish has recent success, so he gets a break, but Kalish's underperformance this year rivals Ford's last year.

He does get a pass, because he made a GOTDAMNED elite 8, that team should have won it all. They got screwed at Washington. Kalish has shown proof of concept here, there's no reason to think he can't continue to build. I agree, this year was a very disappointing season. We can't forget Marcos Moore injury in his last club game before joining SLU. He was supposed to be the talisman on this team. He also brought in the #1 ranked recruiting class for this past season and likely next as well. Anxious to see how they rebound but I expect they will be much improved. Off the top of my head I believe they only lose Konincks and Komodi as major pieces.  

[Box and Won]

Will May be allowed to make a THIRD devastating men's basketball hire?

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, Cowboy II said:

-do we know it is a FACT about CFord's rolling contract extension?

If it is a fact, Chris May (and frankly Fred Pestello) should never be allowed to negotiate or sign off on a contract at any school in the country. That type of extension is usually reserved for guys like Bill Self or Coach K. Or the type of guys who have accomplished things at their program that haven't been done. Instead they gave it to a guy who has been the definition of mediocre. 

[Cowboy II]

4 hours ago, JMM28 said:

If it is a fact, Chris May (and frankly Fred Pestello) should never be allowed to negotiate or sign off on a contract at any school in the country. That type of extension is usually reserved for guys like Bill Self or Coach K. Or the type of guys who have accomplished things at their program that haven't been done. Instead they gave it to a guy who has been the definition of mediocre. 

-how do you know this? 

[JMM28]

7 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-how do you know this? 

I don't, which is why I said "If it is a fact." 

[Cowboy II]

1 minute ago, JMM28 said:

I don't, which is why I said "If it is a fact." 

-ah, my bad, thanks

 

[Gremio14]

8 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

He does get a pass, because he made a GOTDAMNED elite 8, that team should have won it all. They got screwed at Washington. Kalish has shown proof of concept here, there's no reason to think he can't continue to build. I agree, this year was a very disappointing season. We can't forget Marcos Moore injury in his last club game before joining SLU. He was supposed to be the talisman on this team. He also brought in the #1 ranked recruiting class for this past season and likely next as well. Anxious to see how they rebound but I expect they will be much improved. Off the top of my head I believe they only lose Konincks and Komodi as major pieces.  

All good points,  IU outplayed Washington the week prior.  Should have won.  SLU would have hosted the next game.  One can only imagine the insane scenario……10,000 fans??

Moore is exactly what this team is missing, a technical, quick, striker.  

Not certain Komodi was a major piece last season; but  Buendia definitely was.

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, Gremio14 said:

All good points,  IU outplayed Washington the week prior.  Should have won.  SLU would have hosted the next game.  One can only imagine the insane scenario……10,000 fans??

Moore is exactly what this team is missing, a technical, quick, striker.  

Not certain Komodi was a major piece last season; but  Buendia definitely was.

Would have looked like one of those pictures of crowds for those old timey first division matches. Probably would have brought in some seating for the west pine end. 

[slu92]

Even casual mbb fans knew Jim Crews’ reputation, great coach, terrible recruiter. Travis Ford was known as a great recruiter, bad in game coach, couldn’t maximize talent. Yet, who hired both of them and handed out millions of dollars? Chris May. He does not deserve the right or has the trust to hire his 3rd head mbb coach at slu. Honestly he should’ve been let go when slu didn’t go to the BE. It was Chris May who dropped the ball, not Father Biondi. Biondi was a convenient scapegoat to blame at that time. Dr. Oberle might be departments biggest cheerleader and a wonderful person but that doesn’t give her a pass and lifetime job like a Supreme Court judge. She’s only worked at SLU, what other experience or fresh perspectives does she bring to the table that’s so special other than staying at slu entire career? Soccer, baseball, softball, track, etc hope they all do wonderful but at end of the day can anyone tell me how good Gonzaga women’s soccer team is or how good was Creighton softball team last year? Not many I would imagine. Because all that matters is mbb at those schools which I hope slu wants to become. I’m not putting down any other sports at slu, but I’d trade women’s and men’s soccer success for a mbb program like Creighton or Gonzaga. Most would too. I get you can do multiple things all at once, just trying to point out the obvious, mbb is the most important program at slu. Need fresh leadership, department is stale, have to have new people working NIL and 100% new AD hiring a new coach or else SLU falls even further behind in D1 mbb. Maybe to the point of no coming back. Almost 20 years as an AD at one school is impressive but time to turn page, thanks for everything Mr. May, best of luck. SLU can and should do better. Fans and donors deserve it. 
 

IF mbb does well, everyone does well, opposite can’t be the same, look at it that way strictly from a revenue standpoint if anything above all else. 

 

[wgstl]

24 minutes ago, slu92 said:

Even casual mbb fans knew Jim Crews’ reputation, great coach, 

 

 

[Cowboy II]

-where is this notion that we had a chance to join the BEast coming from?

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

8 hours ago, Cowboy II said:

-where is this notion that we had a chance to join the BEast coming from?

We filed the paperwork to join a few years back. We legitimately were looking at joining at one point.

[MusicCityBilliken]

10 hours ago, slu92 said:

Even casual mbb fans knew Jim Crews’ reputation, great coach, terrible recruiter. Travis Ford was known as a great recruiter, bad in game coach, couldn’t maximize talent. Yet, who hired both of them and handed out millions of dollars? Chris May. He does not deserve the right or has the trust to hire his 3rd head mbb coach at slu. Honestly he should’ve been let go when slu didn’t go to the BE. It was Chris May who dropped the ball, not Father Biondi. Biondi was a convenient scapegoat to blame at that time. Dr. Oberle might be departments biggest cheerleader and a wonderful person but that doesn’t give her a pass and lifetime job like a Supreme Court judge. She’s only worked at SLU, what other experience or fresh perspectives does she bring to the table that’s so special other than staying at slu entire career? Soccer, baseball, softball, track, etc hope they all do wonderful but at end of the day can anyone tell me how good Gonzaga women’s soccer team is or how good was Creighton softball team last year? Not many I would imagine. Because all that matters is mbb at those schools which I hope slu wants to become. I’m not putting down any other sports at slu, but I’d trade women’s and men’s soccer success for a mbb program like Creighton or Gonzaga. Most would too. I get you can do multiple things all at once, just trying to point out the obvious, mbb is the most important program at slu. Need fresh leadership, department is stale, have to have new people working NIL and 100% new AD hiring a new coach or else SLU falls even further behind in D1 mbb. Maybe to the point of no coming back. Almost 20 years as an AD at one school is impressive but time to turn page, thanks for everything Mr. May, best of luck. SLU can and should do better. Fans and donors deserve it. 
 

IF mbb does well, everyone does well, opposite can’t be the same, look at it that way strictly from a revenue standpoint if anything above all else. 

 

Good post. Only disagreement with it is Jim Crews being a great coach. I still get PTSD flashbacks of Yarbourgh doing his

'coast to coast' and then getting jammed. I maybe way off on this but wasn't it Bondi did not want to spend the the NBE entrance fees to get into BE back in 2012 but it should been May's job to sell it and explain the huge potential of being in that league. We also blew the opportunity to get in the old BE back in 2006.

We had great ADs in the past with Yow and Albus. They had the insight of the time and knew how to think out of the box. But unlike today, they worked with very little support and resources making their results more impactful. We need to replace May with someone at that level.

[billikenfan05]

10 hours ago, wgstl said:

 

He’s talking about the guy whose best inbounds play was throwing it 50 feet into the back court. Hindsight 2020 it shoulda been Whitesell if it was gonna be an assistant 

[slu92]

My point about Jim Crews is at that time a respected X’s and O’s coach and there was a reason Majerus had him on his staff. He obviously wasn’t a bad coach. The knock on him for years was he couldn’t recruit. Good players make any coach look smarter in any sport. I was at a lunch with Chris May, summer after Crews got job permanently and asked him about recruiting and he said “Calbert Cheney, is the secret weapon, do not worry about that.” I’m not saying Crews was John Wooden at all, terrible tenure after he was given control of program. No doubt. But what I do know is that most pundits never doubted his basketball coaching ability, his managing of coach personal and recruiting were always suspect at best but minimized because of the places he coached (Army/Evansville). What I do know for a fact is what Chris May said to our faces and how that all turned out. Cheney was not the secret weapon, more like a weapon of mass destruction for a D1 mbb program in regards to recruiting! If SLU gives May a third hire, 100% place is cursed and/or leadership across board is profoundly stupid. Plus, big donors like OLaughlin for example who think Chris May hung the moon, are very good people, who are doing great things for program, however if Bob O was still just a bellboy at one of his hotels, Chris May wouldn’t give him the time of day. Not every AD is like that, trust me. Just because a person has money also doesn’t mean they are basketball or sport experts or they are expected to be, it’s not a knock. Need an AD that will use resources correctly, navigate NIL landscape, find new donors, reenergize a dead mbb product and every single donor to program deserves at least that level of competence for what they are doing and have done. SLU has the race car, just need a new pit crew and driver for sure. It’s criminal and wasted resources by a not serious person/AD. SLU can do better. 

[OkieBilliken]

I am an alumni and have been an on again/off again donor to the department in the past, mostly due to current disposable income level at the time.   I live out of state but have travelled ridiculous miles to see many different SLU teams.   I am someone who absolutely would respond very positively, financially or otherwise to any sincere effort of engagement made by the department.   In contrast, the year after COVID, I purchased mens and womens season tickets to the closest D1 school near me, the University of North Florida.    They were really cheap and I was dying to see some live games after a long year.  I wasnt a donor, just a paying customer.   During the season, a couple of UNF players called me to thank me.  I got a signed Christmas card signed by the coaches and the teams.   I didnt have any particular allegiance to that school, but now I do.   They clearly exhibited that they value their fans/supporters.   During the years that I contributed to the SLU AD, significantly more than my UNF tickets by the way, I never felt valued at all.     So this is what I struggle with......

[slu92]

One last thing on Chris May and I’d like to know the real story. I’ve dealt with 4 ticket managers since being a season ticket holder at least. I’ve heard from former coaches, parents of athletes and even former employees that worked in that department over the years that it is run by Dr. Oberle and Chris May, micromanaged and controlled like no other. That the people leadership and donors know are not at all the real day to day people at all staff and students deal with. Again over the years not really one person esp former staff or student athlete has anything good to say. They just move on and are happy to be gone. IF that is true, explains staff turnover, why donations from athletic alumni might be lacking, less engagement, less loyalty to program, probably toxic work environment, working young people to the bone, they quit and start over, pay nothing, insecure and paranoid leaders, who constantly remind everyone how lucky they are just to have a job. One thing that is a constant that I’ve realized and thought about is Oberle and May have been there the whole time, same issues big and small, different staffs, same leadership. Fred is an academic guy who knows little about sports, that’s obvious, but he seems like a good person who maybe is being snowed. Im starting to picture Chris May as a dumb, insecure, mean Sgt. Bilko type. Google it younger guys.

One way to find out is at my old company when the red flags were there and we wanted to know more, we reached out to as many former employees that had nothing to gain or lose and asked questions. Current employees are risking their necks ever unless it’s real bad. Sure you always have vindictive ex employees that would bash Santa Clause, however not everyone is like that who leaves, believe it or not you get common patterns and a clearer picture of how a department or division is truly being run from the top down historically. Something is off because there is just too much overall dysfunction in that department regardless of how well the soccers or wbb are doing currently. Now is the time to really audit place and fix it. Not after mbb season.