ford on 590 now

[TheA_Bomb]

39 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

It appears that Ford, May, and that slapdick Pestello are going with option 6. Doing the same thing we've been doing and expecting different results. 

Maybe 

A coach can complain about NIL and the portal but it's not specific to SLU everyone is dealing with it.  That's why I was advocating SLU fans get out front and establish NIL collective early to seize the initiative. Got to find a way to make things work. Doesn't matter to me how as long as it's ethical and legal.  Winning a game in the NCAA Tournament is long overdue. 

[gobillsgo]

26 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Maybe 

A coach can complain about NIL and the portal but it's not specific to SLU everyone is dealing with it.  That's why I was advocating SLU fans get out front and establish NIL collective early to seize the initiative. Got to find a way to make things work. Doesn't matter to me how as long as it's ethical and legal.  Winning a game in the NCAA Tournament is long overdue. 

I’d settle for knocking off a ranked opponent first. Baby steps.  

[slufan13]

4 hours ago, VeniceMenace said:

After how bad last season went, can’t blame the guy for not being perky.

A few years ago, using the word "perky" on a Friday would have brought @jimbofive out. 

[cgeldmacher]

I never really considered what was meant by pay upon graduating, but the more I think about it, this may just be the novel approach needed in a system that is stacked against us.  It has been discussed at length already, but we WILL NOT compete against power conference teams, with 5 times as many alumni as us, on a year to year basis for kids wanting to cash in immediately (which sounds like its most of them).  Knowing this, the BVF may be coming up with a system that attracts "kids that want to be here" and are willing to stick around and wait to cash in right before they go out into the real world.

Here is a possible structure.  When a kid commits, he gets $5,000 per year up front for expenses.  He also banks $10,000 for his 1st season, $15,000 for his second season, $20,000 for his third season, and $40,000 for his fourth season.  All the banked money is paid upon graduating and finishing your final season.  Also, the kid's banked money earns interest over his four years here.  Under this scernario, a kid gets about $100,000 at the end of four years when considering interest.  On SLU's end, we are getting kids that likely intend to stick around.  A star player that we develop that is being courted by other schools after his junior year would have to consider that he is giving up about $50,000 in money that is sitting and waiting for him, plus $40,000 for his final year, when deciding to transfer.  I like the idea of creating incentive for that kid to stick around.

[JMM28]

3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I never really considered what was meant by pay upon graduating, but the more I think about it, this may just be the novel approach needed in a system that is stacked against us.  It has been discussed at length already, but we WILL NOT compete against power conference teams, with 5 times as many alumni as us, on a year to year basis for kids wanting to cash in immediately (which sounds like its most of them).  Knowing this, the BVF may be coming up with a system that attracts "kids that want to be here" and are willing to stick around and wait to cash in right before they go out into the real world.

Here is a possible structure.  When a kid commits, he gets $5,000 per year up front for expenses.  He also banks $10,000 for his 1st season, $15,000 for his second season, $20,000 for his third season, and $40,000 for his fourth season.  All the banked money is paid upon graduating and finishing your final season.  Also, the kid's banked money earns interest over his four years here.  Under this scernario, a kid gets about $100,000 at the end of four years when considering interest.  On SLU's end, we are getting kids that likely intend to stick around.  A star player that we develop that is being courted by other schools after his junior year would have to consider that he is giving up about $50,000 in money that is sitting and waiting for him, plus $40,000 for his final year, when deciding to transfer.  I like the idea of creating incentive for that kid to stick around.

Except that is totally against what few rules there are regarding this stuff. That is pretty much a definition of "inducement to attend a university" just on the back end. 

[cgeldmacher]

4 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Except that is totally against what few rules there are regarding this stuff. That is pretty much a definition of "inducement to attend a university" just on the back end. 

Except nobody is hiding the fact that NIL is being used for "pay for play."  Kansas outbid Michigan for Hunter Dickson.  No one questioned it one ounce.

Former Michigan basketball star Hunter Dickinson implied that an increase in his name, image and likeness earnings played a role in his decision to transfer to Kansas.

Dickinson, an Associated Press All-American honorable mention who averaged 18.5 points and 9.0 rebounds per game as a junior at Michigan last season, said his critics would also make a move for a pay raise during his appearance on his "Roundball" podcast Tuesday.

"The people hating on me would leave their job right now for a $10,000 increase," Dickinson said. "I got, at Michigan, less than six figures. I got less than six figures at Michigan for the year."

 

[cgeldmacher]

These are the current rules.  I don't think we have much of a chance if we play by the rules everybody else is.  That being said, maybe the scenario I described above is a creative way to give us a shot.  If we pretend that NIL is not for "pay for play" we have ZERO chance.

[JMM28]

1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

These are the current rules.  I don't think we have much of a chance if we play by the rules everybody else is.  That being said, maybe the scenario I described above is a creative way to give us a shot.  If we pretend that NIL is not for "pay for play" we have ZERO chance.

A contract with a guy saying "We will give you $xx,xxx if you graduate from this institution" would land SLU in an NCAA investigation. It is what it is. 

You can't pay an athlete for their name, image, or likeness based on them attending a certain university. You now can't put a residency clause in contracts - the previous work around to give collectives some security in bigger investments. You can't put a stipulation on anything academic. You can't put any sort of stipulation or bonus clause for winning an award, scoring a certain level, making an all-conference team, etc. 

[slufan13]

There are alternate routes to take like dipping into international kids or trying to target high school players who get recruited over by transfer portal guys.

But you still have to pay them and you have to pay them something substantial up front. I like the idea of rewarding a guy for staying 4 years but that's also just as much on the coaching staff to keep the player around. Let's say Medley got a hypothetical deal that pays him $50k upon graduation with $5k payments per year until then. And then he ends up being a terrible player. Can Ford recruit over him and just say "sorry you don't get that $50k anymore". Unfortunately you just gotta pay players now. We'll never compete with the big boys but I'm not exactly sure the current path the BVF is taking is good.

If we try to ethically play an unethical game, we're going to lose and throw away a lot of money. 

[TheA_Bomb]

So you get paid when you're vested? Seems counter to NIL.  I did the NIL thing now.  Payment is now. Vesting is a clear inducement to attend a certain university.   Yeah I know it's all inducement. But this is really inducement  Also seems counter to most young dudes psychology. 

We can't compete with P6, guess what we never did anyway. But we need to be able to compete with Dayton and VCU. Right now we're losing that

[JMM28]

2 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

So you get paid when you're vested? Seems counter to NIL.  I did the NIL thing now.  Payment is now. Vesting is a clear inducement to attend a certain university.   Yeah I know it's all inducement. But this is really inducement  Also seems counter to most young dudes psychology. 

We can't compete with P6, guess what we never did anyway. But we need to be able to compete with Dayton and VCU. Right now we're losing that

Exactly. "Pay on graduation" is a losing proposition. 

It turns out when you used to have a bag man but no one else had a bag man, you looked like a good recruiter. Now that everyone has a bag man, it looks like maybe you weren't a good recruiter after all? 

[DOC]

25 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Except that is totally against what few rules there are regarding this stuff. That is pretty much a definition of "inducement to attend a university" just on the back end. 

It’s exactly how our NIL is set up. 

[Billiken Rich]

13 minutes ago, DOC said:

It’s exactly how our NIL is set up. 

Once you graduate, we will hire you as a full professor for one day at $100,000 per day.

 

[willie]

40 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Once you graduate, we will hire you as a full professor for one day at $100,000 per day.

 

Maybe teach Steve's Polly Sci class for the day.

[CenHudDude]

4 minutes ago, willie said:

Maybe teach Steve's Polly Sci class for the day.

That’s about what Steve is being paid anyway, right?

[billiken_roy]

20 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

That’s about what Steve is being paid anyway, right?

per day?   i think that is in the ballpark.

[gobillsgo]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

A few years ago, using the word "perky" on a Friday would have brought @jimbofive out. 

We used to be a message board. A proper message board. 

[MusicCityBilliken]

5 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

There are many different ways to win.  Not all the ways maybe open to an A10 team in the Midwest with limited basketball success.  But there is a way, I think $2.4mil/year is more than fair compensation to figure that out. 

Just off the top off my head:

1.zig when others zag, go with a unique system that is hard for other teams to prepare for, ie Princeton offense and go all in on smart players that might value education and not be the most athletic. 

2. Moneyball, go all in on analytics hire a nerd to crunch #s on players, sets that'll give you that .08 ppg bump where the sum is greater than the parts. 

3. International focus

4. Find diamonds in the rough,  Develop talent, run your system well.

5. 2nd chance U. Need a strong culture to bring in difference makers that may have past issues.

Etc.

Easier said than done, I know but damn, years of experience,  good resources, good location,  adequate support should be able go hit every 5 years or so. We need something to cheer for

 

I agree with one addition, you need a good x & o coach.

Every year you find a St Peter's, Loyola-C, Butler, GMU, VCU, etc advancing deep in the Tourney.

Coaches of those schools all bolted after the success. We, obviously have the resources to find such a coach.

[cheeseman]

23 hours ago, slufan13 said:

If the question is whether I'd be willing to tank for a few years and then buy a team that is guaranteed to go to like the Elite 8, then I would do it.

But assuming the question is whether you'd be willing to tank for a few years and then buy a great team without knowing the end result, I'll pass. And I'd pass even if a guy like Majerus were still our coach. 

RM would never agree to this so moot point.  Telling your coach to tank goes against their human nature - coaches want to win.  No one has a crystal ball as you point out - too much can go wrong that you have no control over such as injuries, a bad loss at the wrong time,  bad official calls,  Situation 3, other teams that are just as good and you lose to one of them.  You might as well go to Vegas and try to win for your retirement fund - both bad ideas.  

[Billikenbooster]

3 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I never really considered what was meant by pay upon graduating, but the more I think about it, this may just be the novel approach needed in a system that is stacked against us.  It has been discussed at length already, but we WILL NOT compete against power conference teams, with 5 times as many alumni as us, on a year to year basis for kids wanting to cash in immediately (which sounds like its most of them).  Knowing this, the BVF may be coming up with a system that attracts "kids that want to be here" and are willing to stick around and wait to cash in right before they go out into the real world.

Here is a possible structure.  When a kid commits, he gets $5,000 per year up front for expenses.  He also banks $10,000 for his 1st season, $15,000 for his second season, $20,000 for his third season, and $40,000 for his fourth season.  All the banked money is paid upon graduating and finishing your final season.  Also, the kid's banked money earns interest over his four years here.  Under this scernario, a kid gets about $100,000 at the end of four years when considering interest.  On SLU's end, we are getting kids that likely intend to stick around.  A star player that we develop that is being courted by other schools after his junior year would have to consider that he is giving up about $50,000 in money that is sitting and waiting for him, plus $40,000 for his final year, when deciding to transfer.  I like the idea of creating incentive for that kid to stick around.

I like it.  That's what I was talking about

mhg

[cheeseman]

Paying for graduating would be a problem for some.  Not all graduate on time or for that matter at all.

[TheChosenOne]

The idea of back loading NIL deals essentially contingent upon graduation is one of the dumber ideas presented on this board if our intention is to remain relevant in college basketball. If that is what the folks calling the shots are actually doing, good luck. I would imagine the only prospects we would have a shot at beating other programs out for would be grad transfers. No high school recruit with options would agree to that kind of NIL deal.

[thetorch]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

The idea of back loading NIL deals essentially contingent upon graduation is one of the dumber ideas presented on this board if our intention is to remain relevant in college basketball. If that is what the folks calling the shots are actually doing, good luck. I would imagine the only prospects we would have a shot at beating other programs out for would be grad transfers. No high school recruit with options would agree to that kind of NIL deal.

Actually this whole thread is dumb with posters spitballing ideas from out of nowhere.

A simple internet search will tell you exactly how NIL and the collectives work.  There are strict parameters that must be adhered to.  

Simply put here is why our NIL so far has failed.

1. The big donors never contributed because the AD wants them giving to them, not the NIL.

2. The next level donors expected to contribute big money to NIL never materialized because those same donors were the ones who wanted to fire Ford but didn't have enough money to buy him out.

3. All aspects of the BVF geared toward the average fan giving have failed miserably.  No social media presence, a website from 1995, no grassroots marketing at all.

Now we have an athletic dept and a coaching staff who can blame the failure to explain their poor performace.  The cycle continues.

 

[almaman]

instead of Hot Stove for off season we have Hot Loath in MBM land.

[TheChosenOne]

Torch, I would add the AD took a largely hands off approach from the kick and were ignorant to how NIL was evolving based on conversations I had in DC at the conference tournament in 2022. I was somewhat laughed at and then they got a rude awakening a few weeks later with Yuri entertaining offers, but they again took the approach of Tennessee is dirty, they can’t talk to our player. And then we lost a recruit to Xavier and folks were complaining about them playing dirty. All emphasized to me how clueless SLU was with regards to NIL. It appears not much has changed with a few former players expected to drum up support. I would never give to NIL, so I can’t complain, but it has been interesting to observe as someone who follows SEC athletics rather closely and gets a feel for what high major athletics looks like. I’ll never forget being essentially laughed at in DC and my friend who is an alum of a Big Ten school was like wow, they really have no clue. At that point we both knew a number of folks at Big Ten and SEC schools who had been in meetings with coaches and athletic department folks essentially educating them on NIL.