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GDT: Selection Show


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1 hour ago, Basketbill said:

Should the A10 Commissioner be fired?  Poor management of the schedule,  and ridiculous change of the A-10 tournament which not only kept us out of sight and out of mind selection weekend, but took away potential make up game opportunity.

Ms. BAB asked me why the Billikens weren’t playing this weekend. 

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1 hour ago, Basketbill said:

Should the A10 Commissioner be fired?  Poor management of the schedule,  and ridiculous change of the A-10 tournament which not only kept us out of sight and out of mind selection weekend, but took away potential make up game opportunity.

In her defense, she's been better than the last commissioner. And I know, the bar isn't that high.

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3 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

We needed to beat St Bonaventure. THAT was our play in game. Win that one and no anxiety 

mhg

Or not get jobbed by TV Look at Me at VCU. 
 

I refuse to ignore the elephants (plural) in the middle of the room.

The A10 did is no favors my advancing the conference tournament and changing the venue. Then the A10 compounded the problem by letting VCU play 2 A10 Tourney games on its home court when 1 of the 2 could have easily been moved across town to UofR.

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

There isn’t a team in the country JGood wouldn’t get 30 mpg for

Well like I said before he is a very good player but I am sure there a team in the country that he would not get 30 mpg for. 

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9 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

In her defense, she's been better than the last commissioner. And I know, the bar isn't that high.

She sucks.  Men's  A10 basketball has regressed  reputation wise since she's  been commissioner.   And the way she handled the season and tourney was horrible.   And we haven't  even touched  that she failed in conference  cheerleader even being right in the middle  of the committee.    Fire her now.

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

You can’t just use the computer system when you are seeding teams that played such a wide range of total games

It’s conference slotting and conference servicing. There is big money involved, $1.8-$1.9M per NCAA Tourney Unit. That’s how teams with NET’s of 70 and 72 leapfrog one with a NET of 43. 

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Just now, Bay Area Billiken said:

It’s conference slotting and conference servicing. There is big money involved, $1.8-$1.9M per NCAA Tourney Unit. That’s how teams with NET’s of 70 and 72 leapfrog one with a NET of 43. 

If UVA drops, they are replaced by an ACC team right now.

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1 hour ago, Basketbill said:

Should the A10 Commissioner be fired?  Poor management of the schedule,  and ridiculous change of the A-10 tournament which not only kept us out of sight and out of mind selection weekend, but took away potential make up game opportunity.

You bring up a great point. Think about how stupid the MVC is, and has been, for the last ~20 years. It seems so obvious that being a week early to the tournament ruins your visibility. Now we have proof of it.

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The NET through games played today has been released. Both the NCAA and the NIT followed the NET with only 2 variances each.

In the NCAA, 43 SLU and 49 Duke (It’s unclear if Duke was even available) were replaced by 70 Michigan State and 72 Wichita State. This means the only team we know was snubbed for sure was SLU.

In the NIT, factoring in the 4 Opt Outs and Duke, the snubs were to 71 Wright State and 75 Furman. 
 

The NET has Wright State, at 71 and snubbed by the NIT, sandwiched between the two NCAA gift bid beneficiaries Michigan State and Wichita State. 

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16 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

The NET through games played today has been released. Both the NCAA and the NIT followed the NET with only 2 variances each.

In the NCAA, 43 SLU and 49 Duke (It’s unclear if Duke was even available) were replaced by 70 Michigan State and 72 Wichita State. This means the only team we know was snubbed for sure was SLU.

In the NIT, factoring in the 4 Opt Outs and Duke, the snubs were to 71 Wright State and 75 Furman. 
 

The NET has Wright State, at 71 and snubbed by the NIT, sandwiched between the two NCAA gift bid beneficiaries Michigan State and Wichita State. 

So it seemed the NET was used for the NCAA tournament.

That tells me that the Bills were punished due to Covid. They followed the computer rankings up until they got to a team who was hurt by a shutdown.

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23 minutes ago, dlarry said:

So it seemed the NET was used for the NCAA tournament.

That tells me that the Bills were punished due to Covid. They followed the computer rankings up until they got to a team who was hurt by a shutdown.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2021-ncaa-tournament-snubs-louisville-ole-miss-lead-biggest-omissions-from-march-madness-field/

Further proof that dlarry should be on the selection committee next year. 

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39 minutes ago, dlarry said:

So it seemed the NET was used for the NCAA tournament.

That tells me that the Bills were punished due to Covid. They followed the computer rankings up until they got to a team who was hurt by a shutdown.

Absolutely the NET was used, closely with precision, until spots needed to be found for the 2nd AAC team (Wichita State) and the Blue Blood Lifetime Achievement Award for Michigan State, 9th NCAA Unit for the Big Ten.

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4 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Why have the NET?

70 Michigan State and 72 Wichita State are IN.

Welcome to Conference Slotting 101. Oh we know the NCAA denies that. There are a lot of bridges out there for bids from those who believe that denial.

 

Yep.  AP rankings, Coaches Poll, RPI, adjusted RPI ... now NET.   Yet another tool to help analyze and compare to deflect criticism away from the Committee.  At the end of the day, though, it always comes down to the money -- conference slotting.

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4 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Irrespective of well intentions, A10 moving up A10 Tourney 1 week really hurt SLU, as did the change of venue to Richmond, VA.

I am so done with this A10 vis-a-vis SLU.

While I’m not ready to advocate SLU moving to the MVC, not yet, the MVC received the same number of NCAA bids as the A10- 2 each. A key attraction of the A10 for SLU was the A10 was supposed to be a multi-bid league. Well, it was today, barely, with 2, the same number as the other 3 conferences in the Group of 4- WCC, MVC and MW. If SLU had been in the Valley, SLU would have likely been IN the NCAA because SLU is better than Drake, and likely would have defeated Drake head to head.

As is, the A10 advanced its Tournament precluding SLU from playing 2 needed games and denying SLU its last chance at a road win against a good team. SLU was also robbed at VCU in the Ted “TV” Valentine delayed “foul” call that literally handed VCU the Win. 

SLU needs to air some significant grievances with the Atlantic 10 Conference. If you don’t speak up, you’ll just keep getting the shaft.

Two points:

1.  Agreed.  The A10 did no favors to help SLU this year.  In fact, it's policies worked against SLU.   When COVID negatively affected Ohio State's football team which did not have enough games to qualify for the postseason as per Big 10 rules, the Big 10 Conference stepped in and changed the rules to help  its preseason favorite.  SLU basketball is not on par with Ohio State Football - I get it - but SLU was a preseason favorite to win or contend for the A10 Championship, was loaded with 3 quality Seniors who each succeeded individually as Juniors before their team had its season abruptly end like all other team, was successful this year in their return against P5 schools before its COVID pause and clearly was hammered hard by COVID.  And while I get the thought of "building in" a week gap in the middle of the A10 Tourney, this decision clearly hurt SLU and other programs by denying them what they needed -- to play games.   And while I make no apology for or intend to defend the Committee for "not following its rules" regarding NET as it relates to the SLU, I would argue that SLU playing far less games than many programs helped make SLU's NET rating more suspect.   And while SLU lost only 6 games, its losses to LaSalle, second loss to UD and loss to St. Bona were not just bad losses but were embarrassing blow outs.  2 extra games would have certainly helped SLU.  Then, again, why did the A10 not arrange for SLU to make up more games prior to the final season?  The baseball Cardinals played double header after double header and damn near played as many games as the others.  The STL Blues and and the NHL are playing multiple games against the same opponents and even moved to this season only to a realigned Western Conference.   Loyola and Drake played a full schedule in part by the "home and away" games in the Valley.  Not the A10 -- it made no changes other than to shorten its season.  And don't forget that SLU lost a key game against Richmond where we flew out to the Richmond only to leave with no game?  Richmond didn't properly interpret the league COVID rules?  Wasn't that the case claimed also by the team to play Richmond after us?   And for this "leadership", Richmond was made a host of the A10 Tourney?  And as much as I believe the Committee is still conference slotting, why would the A10 get more bids than the other mid majors or worse?  Optics are important.   When we play our Championship game in Madison Square Garden the same weekend as the P5 guys, we look more like them.  But when we play our Tourney the week prior, the same weekend as the lesser conferences, the A10 looks lesser and gets treated as a lesser conference.  For that decision alone, the A10 Commissioner should summarily be fired for setting the conference back for years.

2.  Chris May, by many accounts, is a nice guy, returns emails, warmly greets posters at away games, displays his his passion while yelling at the refs during home games and now has both soccer programs playing good as well... but where was he when our program needed to make up games?  When rules could have been changed to help SLU but which were changed to hurt SLU?  And where was  Dr. P ?  Dayton got the championship game and not SLU?  And with longevity, should there not also be power?  How many more senior AD's are there in the A10 than Chris May?  And why can SLU never get anyone with connections with the A10? with the NCAA and/or Tournament Committee?  Debbie Yow had these connections but I don't believe anyone has come close since her.   Yes, we are long overdue for someone at SLU (AD May, the Board of Trustees, Coach Ford) to put its foot down and demand better -- and if not, then we leave.  

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13 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Two points:

1.  Agreed.  The A10 did no favors to help SLU this year.  In fact, it's policies worked against SLU.   When COVID negatively affected Ohio State's football team which did not have enough games to qualify for the postseason as per Big 10 rules, the Big 10 Conference stepped in and changed the rules to help  its preseason favorite.  SLU basketball is not on par with Ohio State Football - I get it - but SLU was a preseason favorite to win or contend for the A10 Championship, was loaded with 3 quality Seniors who each succeeded individually as Juniors before their team had its season abruptly end like all other team, was successful this year in their return against P5 schools before its COVID pause and clearly was hammered hard by COVID.  And while I get the thought of "building in" a week gap in the middle of the A10 Tourney, this decision clearly hurt SLU and other programs by denying them what they needed -- to play games.   And while I make no apology for or intend to defend the Committee for "not following its rules" regarding NET as it relates to the SLU, I would argue that SLU playing far less games than many programs helped make SLU's NET rating more suspect.   And while SLU lost only 6 games, its losses to LaSalle, second loss to UD and loss to St. Bona were not just bad losses but were embarrassing blow outs.  2 extra games would have certainly helped SLU.  Then, again, why did the A10 not arrange for SLU to make up more games prior to the final season?  The baseball Cardinals played double header after double header and damn near played as many games as the others.  The STL Blues and and the NHL are playing multiple games against the same opponents and even moved to this season only to a realigned Western Conference.   Loyola and Drake played a full schedule in part by the "home and away" games in the Valley.  Not the A10 -- it made no changes other than to shorten its season.  And don't forget that SLU lost a key game against Richmond where we flew out to the Richmond only to leave with no game?  Richmond didn't properly interpret the league COVID rules?  Wasn't that the case claimed also by the team to play Richmond after us?   And for this "leadership", Richmond was made a host of the A10 Tourney?  And as much as I believe the Committee is still conference slotting, why would the A10 get more bids than the other mid majors or worse?  Optics are important.   When we play our Championship game in Madison Square Garden the same weekend as the P5 guys, we look more like them.  But when we play our Tourney the week prior, the same weekend as the lesser conferences, the A10 looks lesser and gets treated as a lesser conference.  For that decision alone, the A10 Commissioner should summarily be fired for setting the conference back for years.

2.  Chris May, by many accounts, is a nice guy, returns emails, warmly greets posters at away games, displays his his passion while yelling at the refs during home games and now has both soccer programs playing good as well... but where was he when our program needed to make up games?  When rules could have been changed to help SLU but which were changed to hurt SLU?  And where was  Dr. P ?  Dayton got the championship game and not SLU?  And with longevity, should there not also be power?  How many more senior AD's are there in the A10 than Chris May?  And why can SLU never get anyone with connections with the A10? with the NCAA and/or Tournament Committee?  Debbie Yow had these connections but I don't believe anyone has come close since her.   Yes, we are long overdue for someone at SLU (AD May, the Board of Trustees, Coach Ford) to put its foot down and demand better -- and if not, then we leave.  

Clock, agree with so many of your points. However, am wondering about your last sentence. If we leave, where do we go? Very limited options, if any. Better options don't seem possible, at least at this time. And the ones which might be possible? They're either worse or no better.

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36 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Two points:

1.  Agreed.  The A10 did no favors to help SLU this year.  In fact, it's policies worked against SLU.   When COVID negatively affected Ohio State's football team which did not have enough games to qualify for the postseason as per Big 10 rules, the Big 10 Conference stepped in and changed the rules to help  its preseason favorite.  SLU basketball is not on par with Ohio State Football - I get it - but SLU was a preseason favorite to win or contend for the A10 Championship, was loaded with 3 quality Seniors who each succeeded individually as Juniors before their team had its season abruptly end like all other team, was successful this year in their return against P5 schools before its COVID pause and clearly was hammered hard by COVID.  And while I get the thought of "building in" a week gap in the middle of the A10 Tourney, this decision clearly hurt SLU and other programs by denying them what they needed -- to play games.   And while I make no apology for or intend to defend the Committee for "not following its rules" regarding NET as it relates to the SLU, I would argue that SLU playing far less games than many programs helped make SLU's NET rating more suspect.   And while SLU lost only 6 games, its losses to LaSalle, second loss to UD and loss to St. Bona were not just bad losses but were embarrassing blow outs.  2 extra games would have certainly helped SLU.  Then, again, why did the A10 not arrange for SLU to make up more games prior to the final season?  The baseball Cardinals played double header after double header and damn near played as many games as the others.  The STL Blues and and the NHL are playing multiple games against the same opponents and even moved to this season only to a realigned Western Conference.   Loyola and Drake played a full schedule in part by the "home and away" games in the Valley.  Not the A10 -- it made no changes other than to shorten its season.  And don't forget that SLU lost a key game against Richmond where we flew out to the Richmond only to leave with no game?  Richmond didn't properly interpret the league COVID rules?  Wasn't that the case claimed also by the team to play Richmond after us?   And for this "leadership", Richmond was made a host of the A10 Tourney?  And as much as I believe the Committee is still conference slotting, why would the A10 get more bids than the other mid majors or worse?  Optics are important.   When we play our Championship game in Madison Square Garden the same weekend as the P5 guys, we look more like them.  But when we play our Tourney the week prior, the same weekend as the lesser conferences, the A10 looks lesser and gets treated as a lesser conference.  For that decision alone, the A10 Commissioner should summarily be fired for setting the conference back for years.

2.  Chris May, by many accounts, is a nice guy, returns emails, warmly greets posters at away games, displays his his passion while yelling at the refs during home games and now has both soccer programs playing good as well... but where was he when our program needed to make up games?  When rules could have been changed to help SLU but which were changed to hurt SLU?  And where was  Dr. P ?  Dayton got the championship game and not SLU?  And with longevity, should there not also be power?  How many more senior AD's are there in the A10 than Chris May?  And why can SLU never get anyone with connections with the A10? with the NCAA and/or Tournament Committee?  Debbie Yow had these connections but I don't believe anyone has come close since her.   Yes, we are long overdue for someone at SLU (AD May, the Board of Trustees, Coach Ford) to put its foot down and demand better -- and if not, then we leave.  

If I’m not mistaken, May is a committee member of the NCAA’s most powerful committee.

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