Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[73Billiken]

To all of the Social Justice Warriors at SLU............this is systemic racism at its core.

#FireFred

[moytoy12]

50 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

So listening to Frank's show from today.  The Goodwins found out 2 weeks ago from the sanctioned letter that he was being accused of sexual assault.  That was the first time he and his parents had heard about it and which is why he was playing.  None of the girls involved said he sexually assaulted them.  The hearing officer (he didn't say Weathers) said it was by process of elimination that Jordan did it. That was the wording the hearing officer used.  One of the girls specifically told her it was not Jordan Goodwin.  Weathers heard that from a girl but he still received the letter from sexual assault but he was found innocent of sexual assault on appeal but the school policy was what he broke .  

Did I miss this posted?  That's crazy! 

Unfrigginbelievable.  Actually, with the sh*tshow at SLU, it is believable but nonetheless disgusting. 

Also, after initially following me on Twitter, Ortiz has blocked me.  Keep pounding him, folks.  That column he wrote is unconscionable. 

[kshoe]

Just sent off an e-mail to my contact at SLU that has traditionally asked for donations. Explained clearly what my concerns were and the injustices I believed all men on campus were being subject to. Finished by telling him no new donations until the Title IX policy is re-worked and the enforcement staff was replaced.

Won't accomplish anything but at least I feel better about it.

[Cowboy]

-I just listened, if what Frank is saying is true the reaction of the Goodwins in the tv interview is cause for instant elevation to saint status as they exhibited peace and calm I and I think most could not, I cannot believe this investigation took place in this way, the T9 process at SLU is broken beyond repair, what will the U do about it? and what 'scool' rule was broken to get the punishment Jordan received?

[Spoon-Balls]

Did someone confirm that Katherine Weathers was also the Hearing Officer for S1? 

If so, she has been key in screwing over 6 young men's basketball careers and livelihoods. Not to mention likely countless other students that you haven't heard about throughout the past 8 years... How is this woman not being held accountable for her outrageous decision making?? 

[brianstl]

She was majorly involved in S1, but it was a different set up then.

[majerus mojo]

1 hour ago, FromDaEastSide said:

Lap 4 of today’s opening monologue - starting at the 11:45 mark.

Segment 1 - Opening Monologue 2/14/18 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thepressbox/2018/02/14/segment-1--opening-monologue-21418

Can’t piggyback enough at how insane this is. Must listen. I’m baffled. The whole segment should probably be transcribed, but I can’t figure out how to manipulate the media player via mobile. I am still drinking 

[aj_arete]

I don't know all of the facts here, so I'm only piecing together a possible scenario that is probably upsetting the followers of SLU basketball here.

Is it possible that the three women involved initially reported a rape to the police, when they personally knew it was consensual sex where they had second thoughts after the encounter?  Then their stories changed when they learn that the encounter was videotaped that disproves that is was non-consensual.  If so, that case reminds me of a Florida State kicker, Scott Bentley, who was alleged to have raped a Florida A&M student. He was only exonerated because he secretly taped the encounter and played it with friends. https://www.si.com/vault/1994/12/26/132956/learning-the-hard-way-for-benched-florida-state-kicker-scott-bentley-growing-up-has-been-painfully-public

Bentley said that he only recorded the encounter and shared it with friends as a way of protecting himself if the woman ended up accusing him of rape. That sounds dubious to me. If you think a woman is going to charge you with rape BEFORE the encounter, why would you have sex with her in the first place? As for what happens, the Florida A&M student drops the rape allegation once learning about the existence of the tape which shows she was a willing participant. On the other hand, Bentley committed a crime and was convicted of a misdemeanor, so his actions were also unethical. Thus, he should have been suspended to. Yes, the Florida A&M student was also unethical and criminally liable for making up a false charge.

I have no idea if I'm on the right track here, but let's assume that I am. If the three women reported rape when it was obvious it wasn't, then that's an ethical lapse on their part and they deserve condemnation. However if they knew they were being recorded, then why go to law enforcement saying they were raped in the first place. Rationally, I would think that they didn't know they were being taped, which I believe would be a crime of sexual exploitation, though I realize proving that in this case would be challenging due to the circumstances. In this case, the SLU players deserve some blame here, which is why I'm not as critical of Ortiz as many of you are.  These players put themselves in this situation with their irresponsible actions, and thus deserve some form of punishment. In fact, I don't have a problem with the outcome given to Goodwin because I do think 18 months suspension was too severe.

[Bobby Metzinger]

6 hours ago, Spoon-Balls said:

Did someone confirm that Katherine Weathers was also the Hearing Officer for S1? 

If so, she has been key in screwing over 6 young men's basketball careers and livelihoods. Not to mention likely countless other students that you haven't heard about throughout the past 8 years... How is this woman not being held accountable for her outrageous decision making?? 

So really, the bottom line has to be an aerial assault from alumni in the form of retracted donations. Letters need to start pouring in, etc. what else can we do? Like how would one institute a coup in this situation? As JMM28 said, we need an overhaul. Chris May - out. Pestello - out. Neidermeyer? 

[slufan13]

I think Stu has done a good job reporting on this for the most part. But why isn't he even retweeting the interview and quotes from the Goodwins? He's the beat writer and this is the most we've heard on this story throughout. I always knew someone like Jost would protect SLU and Pestello but didn't think Stu would too

[Bobby Metzinger]

35 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I think Stu has done a good job reporting on this for the most part. But why isn't he even retweeting the interview and quotes from the Goodwins? He's the beat writer and this is the most we've heard on this story throughout. I always knew someone like Jost would protect SLU and Pestello but didn't think Stu would too

Jost is protecting the status quo as it pertains to the more academia (read: liberal) flavored Pestello administration. I guarantee you the tone would be different had it been a Biondi-led administration. May I remind you the narrative being pushed here? 

Stu is in a rough spot as it pertains to his bylines; he can’t be seen as playing favorites or cozy to the players because then you’d get the conflict of interest scenario when Goodwin returns. I could never cover any event at Peoria Notre Dame High when I wrote for the Peoria Journal Star for reasons of bias and conflict of interest, as my sister was on the Lady Irish soccer team... I could see a similar conflict arise if Stu had appeared to bend in favor of a player. 

[FromDaEastSide]

43 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I think Stu has done a good job reporting on this for the most part. But why isn't he even retweeting the interview and quotes from the Goodwins? He's the beat writer and this is the most we've heard on this story throughout. I always knew someone like Jost would protect SLU and Pestello but didn't think Stu would too

We should email Ben Frederickson about Frank’s reports and see if he will do a follow up. Because he is a columnist and entitled to his opinion, just like “Soft Hands Ortiz.”

[BIG BILL FAN]

8 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Jost is protecting the status quo as it pertains to the more academia (read: liberal) flavored Pestello administration. I guarantee you the tone would be different had it been a Biondi-led administration. May I remind you the narrative being pushed here? 

Stu is in a rough spot as it pertains to his bylines; he can’t be seen as playing favorites or cozy to the players because then you’d get the conflict of interest scenario when Goodwin returns. I could never cover any event at Peoria Notre Dame High when I wrote for the Peoria Journal Star for reasons of bias and conflict of interest, as my sister was on the Lady Irish soccer team... I could see a similar conflict arise if Stu had appeared to bend in favor of a player. 

In this case, all he has to do is present the facts and let them speak for them self...........

[HenryB]

19 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Jost is protecting the status quo as it pertains to the more academia (read: liberal) flavored Pestello administration. I guarantee you the tone would be different had it been a Biondi-led administration. May I remind you the narrative being pushed here? 

Stu is in a rough spot as it pertains to his bylines; he can’t be seen as playing favorites or cozy to the players because then you’d get the conflict of interest scenario when Goodwin returns. I could never cover any event at Peoria Notre Dame High when I wrote for the Peoria Journal Star for reasons of bias and conflict of interest, as my sister was on the Lady Irish soccer team... I could see a similar conflict arise if Stu had appeared to bend in favor of a player. 

That's Stu's job

[Glorydays2013]

8 hours ago, Bills_06 said:

So listening to Frank's show from today.  The Goodwins found out 2 weeks ago from the sanctioned letter that he was being accused of sexual assault.  That was the first time he and his parents had heard about it and which is why he was playing.  None of the girls involved said he sexually assaulted them.  The hearing officer (he didn't say Weathers) said it was by process of elimination that Jordan did it. That was the wording the hearing officer used.  One of the girls specifically told her it was not Jordan Goodwin.  Weathers heard that from a girl but he still received the letter from sexual assault but he was found innocent of sexual assault on appeal but the school policy was what he broke .  

 

I have seen that first hand. Multiple times I have had people I know get punished by katherine weathers even though they werent accused of anything by the accusing party

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, BIG BILL FAN said:

Sh iIn this case, all he has to do is present the facts and let them speak for them self...........

It’s never that easy, though. He can’t appear even in the slightest, biased towards a player. There’s a difference in saying Jordan Goodwin had a great game and backing it up with stats, anecdotes and superlatives and saying JG got railroaded by a federally funded initiative, as much as we all know that’s true. Can you imagine the backlash? That would make this site look like a Focus on the Family group. 

[dlarry]

33 minutes ago, FromDaEastSide said:

We should email Ben Frederickson about Frank’s reports and see if he will do a follow up. Because he is a columnist and entitled to his opinion, just like “Soft Hands Ortiz.”

I want to know what type of reaction this smug little a-hole gets around the PD.

I don't know how it works but do you think the other "journalists" are telling him how awful his article was?

He should be ashamed to show his face to his co-workers. I just hope they voice their concerns and tell him what a terrible disservice he did to the paper. 

[BIG BILL FAN]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

It’s never that easy, though. He can’t appear even in the slightest, biased towards a player. There’s a difference in saying Jordan Goodwin had a great game and backing it up with stats, anecdotes and superlatives and saying JG got railroaded by a federally funded initiative, as much as we all know that’s true. Can you imagine the backlash? That would make this site look like a Focus on the Family group. 

Presenting the facts isn't being biased, it's doing his job.

[slufan13]

8 hours ago, FromDaEastSide said:

Lap 4 of today’s opening monologue - starting at the 11:45 mark.

Segment 1 - Opening Monologue 2/14/18 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thepressbox/2018/02/14/segment-1--opening-monologue-21418

This is insanity. I am looking forward to hearing from the other 3 players as well. I hope SLU gets absolutely hammered by this.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, BIG BILL FAN said:

Presenting the facts isn't being biased, it's doing his job.

I totally agree with you - but there’s a problem and that lies with the readership of the PD. Not defending Stu or the PD here, but he has to be under the impression that presenting JG’s side would bring more of a firestorm to the PD from the wildly obtuse pro-IX crowd than us. 

[BillyCan]

Don’t hold your breath waiting for the Pravda-Dispatch to write anything in defense of the boys.

Not happening. This country’s media currently blows!

[Bills_06]

6 hours ago, aj_arete said:

I don't know all of the facts here, so I'm only piecing together a possible scenario that is probably upsetting the followers of SLU basketball here.

Is it possible that the three women involved initially reported a rape to the police, when they personally knew it was consensual sex where they had second thoughts after the encounter?  Then their stories changed when they learn that the encounter was videotaped that disproves that is was non-consensual.  If so, that case reminds me of a Florida State kicker, Scott Bentley, who was alleged to have raped a Florida A&M student. He was only exonerated because he secretly taped the encounter and played it with friends. https://www.si.com/vault/1994/12/26/132956/learning-the-hard-way-for-benched-florida-state-kicker-scott-bentley-growing-up-has-been-painfully-public

Bentley said that he only recorded the encounter and shared it with friends as a way of protecting himself if the woman ended up accusing him of rape. That sounds dubious to me. If you think a woman is going to charge you with rape BEFORE the encounter, why would you have sex with her in the first place? As for what happens, the Florida A&M student drops the rape allegation once learning about the existence of the tape which shows she was a willing participant. On the other hand, Bentley committed a crime and was convicted of a misdemeanor, so his actions were also unethical. Thus, he should have been suspended to. Yes, the Florida A&M student was also unethical and criminally liable for making up a false charge.

I have no idea if I'm on the right track here, but let's assume that I am. If the three women reported rape when it was obvious it wasn't, then that's an ethical lapse on their part and they deserve condemnation. However if they knew they were being recorded, then why go to law enforcement saying they were raped in the first place. Rationally, I would think that they didn't know they were being taped, which I believe would be a crime of sexual exploitation, though I realize proving that in this case would be challenging due to the circumstances. In this case, the SLU players deserve some blame here, which is why I'm not as critical of Ortiz as many of you are.  These players put themselves in this situation with their irresponsible actions, and thus deserve some form of punishment. In fact, I don't have a problem with the outcome given to Goodwin because I do think 18 months suspension was too severe.

Except your theory seems to be wrong from the comments from the accuser's lawyer.  Rosenblum said everything was out in the open video/picture wise and the girls lawyer then was basically confirming this by saying realizing you are being filmed is not the same as giving consent to film.  This was a group sex act and there was a camera broken out. If you want to blame the players for participating in group sex fine but then you have to blame the girls the exact same way and how you arrive at kicking them off campus and accusing them of making the campus dangerous as Ortiz implied in his article is beyond me. Yes, the article you linked it does sound weird to record it secretly in case of being accused of rape but that doesn't seem to apply at all in this case from reading the accuser's statement.  

You don't have a problem with the outcome even though one of the girls told the hearing officer that Goodwin wasn't involved and she used "process of elimination" to determine he was and then you don't have a problem with Ortiz basically accusing the kid of extending the investigation to play (which again he never knew he was investigated from Frank) and being a danger to the campus?  

[Taj79]

Perception is reality.  Risk versus reward.  Beat writers should be as factual and near neutral as possible.  Opinion columnists can do the nerve-poking work.  That happened here with Durando versus Ortiz.  You need a Burwell or Strauss or BenFred or Gordon to jump on this subject with that vein.

[majerus mojo]

9 minutes ago, BillyCan said:

Don’t hold your breath waiting for the Pravda-Dispatch to write anything in defense of the boys.

Not happening. This country’s media currently blows!

Not one person from the Dispatch has even acknowledged Frank’s report regarding JG. Incredible. Ortiz blocked me in the night for the crime of asking why he stated JG violated Title IX. Maybe need a list of journalists outside the paper who will actually lift a finger. What a rag

[Billikenbooster]

It may need to be the Riverfront Times.