Biedscheid Transferring from ND

[Clock_Tower]

It's pretty simple. The P-D sports editorial staff assigned Matter, rather than Timmermann, to cover the story. The slant favorable to Mizzou is the result of an editorial decision to cater to a constituency that the editorial staff perceives to be weighted much more towards Missouri fans & alumni than towards SLU fans & alumni. It's strictly business to them. Whether that editorial slant influences fans and recruits toward Mizzou while reducing SLU's perceived relevance is debatable. What we need is for competition. Had the Globe-Democrat still been a prominent alternative, you may have seen a Globe SLU beat writer covering the story with a pro-SLU slant. Hopefully sustained success by the Billikens will lead the P-D sports editorial staff to give SLU more weight, but the balance of Mizzou alumni to SLU alumni in the Metro area will never change and it's rather unlikely, unfortunately, that the perceived balance of Mizzou fans to SLU fans in the Metro area will ever change.

Serious question. Who really reads the Post anymore? The relevance of the Post, especially among the youth, becomes less and less. Why the concern?

Also, the chances of another paper giving a different view is between slim and none. In the really old days, yes. Today, no.

And remember that the Journalism School is still Mizzou's best and that it's grads influence stories (pro-Mizzou) from the Post to ESPN. This is reality and will not change in the near future. Between the influence/numbers of their J School alum throughout the media and the number of Mizzou alums, Mizzou students and parents of Mizzou students in the St. Louis metro area, SLU doesn't stand a chance for equal footing. Success on the court by SLU can only minimize the disparity. As to a pro-SLU bent/ bias, I' d suggest the odds are greater for the Post to become a conservative paper than for it to become a pro-SLU paper -- neither will happen.

[AlumniFan]

Serious question. Who really reads the Post anymore? The relevance of the Post, especially among the youth, becomes less and less. Why the concern?

Also, the chances of another paper giving a different view is between slim and none. In the really old days, yes. Today, no.

And remember that the Journalism School is still Mizzou's best and that it's grads influence stories (pro-Mizzou) from the Post to ESPN. This is reality and will not change in the near future. Between the influence/numbers of their J School alum throughout the media and the number of Mizzou alums, Mizzou students and parents of Mizzou students in the St. Louis metro area, SLU doesn't stand a chance for equal footing. Success on the court by SLU can only minimize the disparity. As to a pro-SLU bent/ bias, I' d suggest the odds are greater for the Post to become a conservative paper than for it to become a pro-SLU paper -- neither will happen.

I get all of this and agree with your conclusion, but wouldn't you think an entity struggling for survival would make an effort to appeal to as many readers as possible? The marginal costs are negligible. Sometimes I think the people at the Post are just stubborn or perhaps do not possess an astute sense of business.

[dlarry]

I read the print version of the post but only because I dont like using my laptop while taking dumps.

[For-DaLove]

I read the print version of the post but only because I dont like using my laptop while taking dumps.

You've got to have something to wipe with

[AlumniFan]

You've got to have something to wipe with

May be the best post of a looooong day!

[Quality Is Job 1]

And Mr. Hicks,

You're right, this isn't Lexington. I love the atmosphere down there for UK. That's what I want for SLU.

Sounds nice, but let me know when Lexington also has the St. Louis Cardinals, an NFL team, and an NHL team to provide competition for the Wildcats, because only then would it be an apples-to-apples comparison.

[bonwich]

Y'all are seeing black helicopters again. "Strictly business"? "Editorial decisions"? How 'bout "ten pounds of sh!t in a five pound bag"?

Did anyone happen to notice which beat reporter covered Mizzou yesterday in its game against NC Freakin' State University? Um, that would be the Associated Press. And the P-D grabbed a strung story from some mousefart paper in Bumfuok, Ill., for the Ilini game. At least no one has complained about TT not getting to go to all the road games this year. (Did he go to Mexico? I don't remember. If he did, that's actually a sign of pro-SLU bias.)

There's no pro-Mizzou cabal on the sports desk. Not any more. In fact, there are very few human beings at all left on the sports desk. As there are anywhere else at the P-D. (Even in the Food section, I might note. ) Those poor folk in Sports are simply working as hard as they possibly can with very limited resources (and, if you ever take the time to check, extremely limited advertising support). Of course, they're going to make wheelbarrows full of money from those terrific new talking-heads videos they're making dozens of each day, and All will be Well, economically speaking, in no time at all.

[Clock_Tower]

I get all of this and agree with your conclusion, but wouldn't you think an entity struggling for survival would make an effort to appeal to as many readers as possible? The marginal costs are negligible. Sometimes I think the people at the Post are just stubborn or perhaps do not possess an astute sense of business.

When has the Post ever attempted to give multiple points of view or to put out a product which might appeal to all of its potential readers? Never. There is more wrong with the Post than technology and modern preferences.

[Billboy1]

There were statistics in the Post awhile back, discussed on this board, that there are more SLU grads in the St. Louis area than MU. So let's get more coverage for the one with the most alumni.

[P.B.]

There were statistics in the Post awhile back, discussed on this board, that there are more SLU grads in the St. Louis area than MU. So let's get more coverage for the one with the most alumni.

Graduate numbers do not relate to fan base numbers. Mizzou fans in St Louis trump SLU. The only fans I know who root for SLU over Mizzou went to SLU or have been raised a billiken fan. Just about every other basketball fan in the area favors Mizzou, and that is a lot more

[Billboy1]

Would disagree-facts??

[AlumniFan]

Graduate numbers do not relate to fan base numbers. Mizzou fans in St Louis trump SLU. The only fans I know who root for SLU over Mizzou went to SLU or have been raised a billiken fan. Just about every other basketball fan in the area favors Mizzou, and that is a lot more

I would disagree with this too. I give tickets to a lot of non-SLU grads who want to go to SLU games. The edge that MU has in St. Louis based fans is diminishing as SLU improves and MU continues to play host to controversy.

[slu72]

The big State U just about always trump the private schools in fan base. Notable exceptions: ND (subway alumni) and Duke (Yankees of College hoops). The Show Me State is kind of unique in that Mizzery has no competitive big State school, eg Michigan v Michigan St, in the major sports, hence they have a monopoly in the areas outside the state's metro areas. Being the only BCS program in the state certainly gives them a huge advantage in adding to their fan base. Take Ohio St for example, there may be more OSU fans in Cincinnati than X and UC fans combined, although UK also has a huge following in the Queen City.

[Pistol]

I would argue with your theory that there are more OSU fans in Cincy than UC or Xavier fans. There are big OSU and UK presences here, to be sure, but Cincinnati seems way less interested in OSU than the rest of the state. The Crosstown Classic (nee Shootout) draws a lot more local interest than whatever OSU is doing. If you go to Columbus or a lot of smaller cities, OSU is religion. Not here. Too many other factors: proximity of other major schools (like UK), deep high school football tradition, presence of local FBS football (UC), big in-town rivalry (XU-UC), pro football, etc. So this city is more fragmented than the rest of the state in terms of fanhood.

Cleveland, which is farther away from OSU than Cincinnati, has a much more noticeable OSU fan base than Cincy. There is no local FBS football program to compete with, there isn't much of a local college basketball presence (even when Cleveland State makes a tournament run), there aren't many neighboring state colleges that compete for attention (though there are big Michigan and Penn State fan bases there), and high school and pro football are a big deal but don't seem to be quite as culturally deep as in Cincy. Just my observations.

[Bobby Metzinger]

The big State U just about always trump the private schools in fan base. Notable exceptions: ND (subway alumni) and Duke (Yankees of College hoops). The Show Me State is kind of unique in that Mizzery has no competitive big State school, eg Michigan v Michigan St, in the major sports, hence they have a monopoly in the areas outside the state's metro areas. Being the only BCS program in the state certainly gives them a huge advantage in adding to their fan base. Take Ohio St for example, there may be more OSU fans in Cincinnati than X and UC fans combined, although UK also has a huge following in the Queen City.

Solid post. Also add that there are more beat writers covering Tennessee football with the Tennessean than there are Vanderbilt beat writers and Knoxville is 180 miles from Nashville (and Vanderbilt has a better team than good ol' Rocky Top).

[kshoe]

This thread has certainly gotten of topic but I suppose it was to be expected.

I asked Timmerman once why he doesn't ever do any recruiting articles and he said he doesn't like it and largely leaves the topic untouched. In my opinion its his one major hole in his coverage of SLU. Matter obviously doesn't feel the same way as he often has articles about Mizzou football recruiting and occasionally their basketball recruiting. Instead of blaming Matter or the Post or the black helicopters, really we should just recognize that our beat writer isn't going to write on this topic based on "sources" and rumors.

All that being said, none of this matters. CB and his family will make their decision based on what is best for them, not what is written in the Post Dispatch.

[slu72]

I would argue with your theory that there are more OSU fans in Cincy than UC or Xavier fans. There are big OSU and UK presences here, to be sure, but Cincinnati seems way less interested in OSU than the rest of the state. The Crosstown Classic (nee Shootout) draws a lot more local interest than whatever OSU is doing. If you go to Columbus or a lot of smaller cities, OSU is religion. Not here. Too many other factors: proximity of other major schools (like UK), deep high school football tradition, presence of local FBS football (UC), big in-town rivalry (XU-UC), pro football, etc. So this city is more fragmented than the rest of the state in terms of fanhood.

Cleveland, which is farther away from OSU than Cincinnati, has a much more noticeable OSU fan base than Cincy. There is no local FBS football program to compete with, there isn't much of a local college basketball presence (even when Cleveland State makes a tournament run), there aren't many neighboring state colleges that compete for attention (though there are big Michigan and Penn State fan bases there), and high school and pro football are a big deal but don't seem to be quite as culturally deep as in Cincy. Just my observations.

Pistol, definitely agree Cincy is more fragmented than Cleveland, and maybe my claim was a little over the top. Still, there's a strong contingent of Buckeye fans in Hamilton county. One positive for the Cincy based teams and UK as well, is that WLW promotes the locals over OSU big time. The Chestnuts get very little coverage w/ the local media. Not the case in Cleveland, which provides OSU a fair amount of publicity. In Columbus the media is the propaganda department for OSU. Still, my point was that statewide most kids grow up a Buckeye fan. Sadly, the same is likely true in MO, especially in the rural areas. My guess would be in small town local papers and radio stations, SLU is hardly, if at all, provided any coverage, while Mizzery's every move receives coverage. Hard to compete against a monopoly, and probably the reason Mizzery always considers scheduling a game against SLU is a no win situation for them. Why would you want to give any publicity to their biggest potential competitor for hoops fans.

[slufan13]

Any updates on Biedscheid?

[ACE]

Some folks will have the knee-jerk reaction that they don't like anything to do with the P-D because they don't like the paper's point of view. What primarily motivates media outlets is not ideology, but rather finding a loyal audience and making money. There was once another major daily newspaper in town with a different ideology and it failed. They even tried to relaunch an on-line Globe Democrat and it quickly failed again. It's the free market. It's capitalism. Some of you folks should get that. It's a struggling industry.

Our coverage in the P-D has certainly increased over the last couple of years and we have been on more equal footing. People who don't see it, have their own biases or simply aren't paying attention. Way back when Spoon had us rolling, we also got at least equal if not more coverage. Coverage dropped as we dropped to a less high profile conference and Sodie delivered a very boring product for many years. Once we got things turned around, the coverage has been fine. If it seems Mizzou gets a lot of coverage, again, big state U, they want to sell papers in out-state Missourah. Also, casual sports fans with no affiliation to either school tend to gravitate to the state U. Also, just look at the traffic at the P-D forums. Very little Billiken talk. Billiken nation is not exactly sending a message that there is a lot of demand for SLU talk.

There probably was a time when the P-D were shills for Mizzou, but I don't find that to be the case anymore. They did a lot of good digging on the Ricky Clemons fiasco. The called out Haith for lying to a Mizzou staff member claiming that he did not know Shapiro. And, they did a great job of exposing that Mizzou was trying to cover-up the Michael Dixon garbage.If not for the P-D, that scumbag would have likely suited up again for SPUMAC.

People getting their panties in a bunch about some P-D conspiracy are missing the point or are letting politics cloud their judgement - kshoe just beat me to the punch. It's the fact that Timmerman has NEVER really covered recruiting. I think he does a solid job covering the team, but his lack of interest in recruiting has always irritated me. I sent him an email about it one time saying that a lot of us SLU fans want to hear more about recruiting, but I didn't get a response. Maybe if he hears that feedback from more of us, he might do a little more digging about recruiting.

[bauman]

Any updates on Biedscheid?

What could possibly make you think you could find an answer to your question in THIS thread?

[RiseAndGrind]

God damnit I hate this board.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

Biiiiiiiiiieeeeeddddddsssscccchhhheeeeeiiiiiiddddddd

[AlumniFan]

Oh my God the irony...

[cheeseman]

It's pretty simple. The P-D sports editorial staff assigned Matter, rather than Timmermann, to cover the story. The slant favorable to Mizzou is the result of an editorial decision to cater to a constituency that the editorial staff perceives to be weighted much more towards Missouri fans & alumni than towards SLU fans & alumni. It's strictly business to them. Whether that editorial slant influences fans and recruits toward Mizzou while reducing SLU's perceived relevance is debatable. What we need is for competition. Had the Globe-Democrat still been a prominent alternative, you may have seen a Globe SLU beat writer covering the story with a pro-SLU slant. Hopefully sustained success by the Billikens will lead the P-D sports editorial staff to give SLU more weight, but the balance of Mizzou alumni to SLU alumni in the Metro area will never change and it's rather unlikely, unfortunately, that the perceived balance of Mizzou fans to SLU fans in the Metro area will ever change.

So what you are saying is that the Post should slant all their sports coverage towards the school they perceive to be more weighted regardless of accuracy? I get your point it just seems to me the paper should strive to be balanced regardless of the weighted fan base they perceive.

Also, from what Kshoe posted about TT not liking to write about recruiting and so he does not do it is quite honestly insulting to readers. I have never cared much for his effort and this actually takes the cake. There are lots of readers who are interested in recruiting for the team he covers so why would he think he can simply choose what he wants to do regardless of the readership interest. If he does not want to be a sports writer then go find another job you actually want to do. Bonwich - apparently it is more than just trying to put a 10 lbs in a 5 lbs sack - it apparently a function of a writer simply only wanting to write about what he likes and the readership be damn. By the way, the articles in the print version also make up what is in the on line version so where you read it does not mean anything - it is all the same. I can tell you that my son who lives in San Diego does read the on line version regularly so he can stay in touch with the Cardinals, Rams and Blues along with Missouri and SLU. When was the last time you told your boss that you did not want to do something that was part of your job and he/she just said OK then you don't have to.

[AlumniFan]

Let's face it, not all businesses are well run. Perhaps the Post is an example of this.