Mitchell and Reed suspended

[joe_davola]

I know an average Joe who was kicked out of the dorms and forced to live off campus for a "violation of student policy" freshmen year. He had a meeting with the student board and was told he was being kicking out of residence life and no longer allowed in a dorm, SLU apartment, or any other Res Life building. I suppose the University could have forced them off campus instead but given the fact that they are athletes, they may have wanted to make a stronger statement. Who knows, all speculation.

Right, as do I. I agree with what you are saying here...I think the punishment doesn't fit the 'SLU Crime' in this instance. I think it boils down to them being athletetes..as well as other 'factor$$$$' that I know Backhand knows quite a bit about.

[joe_davola]

i have talked to a number of credible folks tonite and there actually may be more to consider.

mitchell and reed are now suspended as students. i.e. not in class and no chance to pass any classes. even though that suspension ends at semester break, there is likely a number of classes that needed to be passed to be eligible to play the next semester. i.e. they might be back as students but not as players until fall of 2011. i dont know for sure, but it sure makes sense. dont shoot the messenger.

Crap...I didn't think about that, but that makes a lot of sense. I think you have a valid point here. Maybe they both were taking 21 hours a semester

[RB2.0]

as well as other 'factor$$$$' that I know Backhand knows quite a bit about.

Joe, that is what I don't understand about this whole situation. When did the whole beef with KW and WR begin with a big $$$ donor? Was the beef rooted in past incidents that I have no knowledge about? I don't remember any other notable incidents involving KM or WR that tarnishes SLUs squeaky clean image so I still don't understand the big $$ donor's aggressive actions. Hence why the speculation something more happened. If there's a big $$ factor here, I think it will come to light sooner than later, especially with the StL press getting involved.

[JamminJamalJohnson]

Crap...I didn't think about that, but that makes a lot of sense. I think you have a valid point here. Maybe they both were taking 21 hours a semester

They are gone, period, end of story. Wouldn't be able to practice while not enrolled and there is no way they stroll in at semester and rejoin the team.

[SLU_Nick]

i have talked to a number of credible folks tonite and there actually may be more to consider.

mitchell and reed are now suspended as students. i.e. not in class and no chance to pass any classes. even though that suspension ends at semester break, there is likely a number of classes that needed to be passed to be eligible to play the next semester. i.e. they might be back as students but not as players until fall of 2011. i dont know for sure, but it sure makes sense. dont shoot the messenger.

Roy that doesnt really add up. They can take classes in the spring that they were going to take in the fall in most cases. Degree programs are flexible in that way. That way if you do fail a class, you can be back on track and not have to wait for the complete next year.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Joe, that is what I don't understand about this whole situation. When did the whole beef with KW and WR begin with a big $$$ donor? Was the beef rooted in past incidents that I have no knowledge about? I don't remember any other notable incidents involving KM or WR that tarnishes SLUs squeaky clean image so I still don't understand the big $$ donor's aggressive actions. Hence why the speculation something more happened. If there's a big $$ factor here, I think it will come to light sooner than later, especially with the StL press getting involved.

chick's dad is friends with one of the large donors, I believe. He probably couldn't believe that his daughter would consensually have an encounter with multiple men from the basketball team. No dad's daughter does that, right?

[billiken_roy]

nick it is my understanding from multiple sources tonite that except for their freshmen year, they have to pass a certain number of hours in a semester to participate the next. they also have to continue to be on pace to graduate with their class. yes they can make it up, but until they do, they arent eligible. this is why the likes of chris massie at memphis after getting straight incompletes at memphis his spring semester of junior year, couldnt play his fall senior semester. then he had to pass 27 hours to be eligible for spring his senior year. luckily for calipari, chris had rhodes scholarlike academic skills and easily indeed passed the 27 hours.

i dont think there are any specific class titles they have to pass just hours. what i havent heard is a consistent number of hours. i have heard 6 i have heard 12. either way, they dont have the chance to pass any so it is my understanding they would not be eligible to play spring semester.

[cheesycow]

You guys all had me tricked into thinking you somehow got the better end of the moral compass when it came to your university. Came to commiserate and offer up that my alma mater has lost plenty of players in disgraceful fashion, but really it's a lot of the posters on this board that are disgraceful. Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves.

[slufan13]

nick it is my understanding from multiple sources tonite that except for their freshmen year, they have to pass a certain number of hours in a semester to participate the next. they also have to continue to be on pace to graduate with their class. yes they can make it up, but until they do, they arent eligible. this is why the likes of chris massie at memphis after getting straight incompletes at memphis his spring semester of junior year, couldnt play his fall senior semester. then he had to pass 27 hours to be eligible for spring his senior year. luckily for calipari, chris had rhodes scholarlike academic skills and easily indeed passed the 27 hours.

i dont think there are any specific class titles they have to pass just hours. what i havent heard is a consistent number of hours. i have heard 6 i have heard 12. either way, they dont have the chance to pass any so it is my understanding they would not be eligible to play spring semester.

is it possible to take an online class or something and get whatever hours and then it transfers in to slu at the end of the semester?

you could be right about this and i dont know the facts or rules, but since they aren't even students here anymore, why do they have to keep up with classes to be eligible to play in the spring?

[kshoe]

You guys all had me tricked into thinking you somehow got the better end of the moral compass when it came to your university. Came to commiserate and offer up that my alma mater has lost plenty of players in disgraceful fashion, but really it's a lot of the posters on this board that are disgraceful. Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves.

F off Cheesy.

[RiseAndGrind]

You guys all had me tricked into thinking you somehow got the better end of the moral compass when it came to your university. Came to commiserate and offer up that my alma mater has lost plenty of players in disgraceful fashion, but really it's a lot of the posters on this board that are disgraceful. Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves.

Why?

Maybe I have missed something.

[kappy96]

chick's dad is friends with one of the large donors, I believe. He probably couldn't believe that his daughter would consensually have an encounter with multiple men from the basketball team. No dad's daughter does that, right?

I believe that large donor may be close to fulfilling their substantial pledge to the university. The dots are there to connect.

[NH]

Why?

Maybe I have missed something.

People on this board may be quick to assume no sexual assault happened. But then again, Innocent until proven guilty is a phrase commonly thrown around happened. Somebody has to defend these kids, since it appears the school did not give them a fair chance to defend themselves

[kshoe]

nick it is my understanding from multiple sources tonite that except for their freshmen year, they have to pass a certain number of hours in a semester to participate the next. they also have to continue to be on pace to graduate with their class. yes they can make it up, but until they do, they arent eligible. this is why the likes of chris massie at memphis after getting straight incompletes at memphis his spring semester of junior year, couldnt play his fall senior semester. then he had to pass 27 hours to be eligible for spring his senior year. luckily for calipari, chris had rhodes scholarlike academic skills and easily indeed passed the 27 hours.

i dont think there are any specific class titles they have to pass just hours. what i havent heard is a consistent number of hours. i have heard 6 i have heard 12. either way, they dont have the chance to pass any so it is my understanding they would not be eligible to play spring semester.

Unfortunately, I think Roy might be right.

I found this from the NCAA eligiblity site: http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI%20Summary%20of%20NCAA%20Regulations.pdf

In particular, this paragraph on page 5 could be a major issue.

"If you are entering an institution for the first time on or after August 1, 2003, your eligibility for competition shall be based on:

c) Having successfully completed 18-semester or 27-quarter hours of academic credit since the beginning of the previous fall term or since the beginning of the certifying institution’s preceding regular two semesters or three quarters (hours earned during the summer may not be used to fulfill this requirement)"

I'm sure they didn't take 18 hours in the spring of 2010 and will be given 0 hours for the fall semester.

If this is the case, and the punishment is being labeled a one semester suspension but is really a defacto year suspension then SLU should be ashamed. Why even act like you cut those kids a break when it achieves the same damn thing as kicking them out for the full year. SLU has a lot to be ashamed for in this whole process. I'm starting to really hope they sue the crap out of the university.

[kmbilliken]

No way either comes back. KW will end up at Wisconsin or some other BCS school. Willie will go to Mizzou or go pro.

This is a program killer. Can anybody say Craig Upchurch?

Majerus will have to defend this to every potential recruit. Why did SLU kick out its best two players? Because its against the rules for students at a Catholic school to have sex? Because they had sex with a white girl? Because they dated a white girl and a big money booster didn't like it? Potential recruits will here it all from other schools. Does RM want to stick around for that? NO WAY!

Is Floyd Irons out of jail yet? We may have a job for him.

[NH]

Unfortunately, I think Roy might be right.

I found this from the NCAA eligiblity site: http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI%20Summary%20of%20NCAA%20Regulations.pdf

In particular, this paragraph on page 5 could be a major issue.

"If you are entering an institution for the first time on or after August 1, 2003, your eligibility for competition shall be based on:

c) Having successfully completed 18-semester or 27-quarter hours of academic credit since the beginning of the previous fall term or since the beginning of the certifying institution’s preceding regular two semesters or three quarters (hours earned during the summer may not be used to fulfill this requirement)"

I'm sure they didn't take 18 hours in the spring of 2010 and will be given 0 hours for the fall semester.

If this is the case, and the punishment is being labeled a one semester suspension but is really a defacto year suspension then SLU should be ashamed. Why even act like you cut those kids a break when it achieves the same damn thing as kicking them out for the full year. SLU has a lot to be ashamed for in this whole process. I'm starting to really hope they sue the crap out of the university.

Maybe if lawyers had been there for the two students being suspended, these concerns would have been brought up. But then again there werent lawyers.

[slufan13]

maybe they got the hours in the summer or they can find some online class to enroll in for 5 weeks. im sure rick can find a way to get through this rule

[davidnark]

Unfortunately, I think Roy might be right.

I found this from the NCAA eligiblity site: http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/AMA/compliance_forms/DI/DI%20Summary%20of%20NCAA%20Regulations.pdf

In particular, this paragraph on page 5 could be a major issue.

"If you are entering an institution for the first time on or after August 1, 2003, your eligibility for competition shall be based on:

c) Having successfully completed 18-semester or 27-quarter hours of academic credit since the beginning of the previous fall term or since the beginning of the certifying institution’s preceding regular two semesters or three quarters (hours earned during the summer may not be used to fulfill this requirement)"

I'm sure they didn't take 18 hours in the spring of 2010 and will be given 0 hours for the fall semester.

If this is the case, and the punishment is being labeled a one semester suspension but is really a defacto year suspension then SLU should be ashamed. Why even act like you cut those kids a break when it achieves the same damn thing as kicking them out for the full year. SLU has a lot to be ashamed for in this whole process. I'm starting to really hope they sue the crap out of the university.

They are fine. The rule you cited is actually Bylaw 14.4.3.1-(. Each player is allowed a one-time exception to the rule.

14.4.3.5 Exceptions to Progress-Toward-Degree Rule.

(a) Missed Term. One time during a student-athlete’s entire period of collegiate enrollment, the provisions

of Bylaw 14.4.3.1-( may be prorated at nine hours per term of actual attendance if the student-athlete

misses a complete term or consecutive terms during an academic year, subject to the following conditions:

(Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03 for those student-athletes first entering a collegiate institution full time on

or after 8/1/03, Revised: 4/29/04, 4/28/05)

(1) The student-athlete engaged in no outside competition in the sport during the academic term or terms

in which the student was not in attendance; and (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03 for those studentathletes

first entering a collegiate institution full time on or after 8/1/03)

(2) At the time of certification, the student has fulfilled the progress-toward-degree requirements (per

Bylaw 14.4.3.1) for the terms in which the student was in attendance. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective

8/1/03 for those student-athletes first entering a collegiate institution full time on or after 8/1/03)

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

[dlarry]

No way either comes back. KW will end up at Wisconsin or some other BCS school. Willie will go to Mizzou or go pro.

This is a program killer. Can anybody say Craig Upchurch?

Majerus will have to defend this to every potential recruit. Why did SLU kick out its best two players? Because its against the rules for students at a Catholic school to have sex? Because they had sex with a white girl? Because they dated a white girl and a big money booster didn't like it? Potential recruits will here it all from other schools. Does RM want to stick around for that? NO WAY!

Is Floyd Irons out of jail yet? We may have a job for him.

according to Mizzou fans nobody on the SLU roster would even make their team so I dont see Reed going there to ride the pine.

[SluSignGuy]

They are fine. The rule you cited is actually Bylaw 14.4.3.1-(. Each player is allowed a one-time exception to the rule.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

Good find lawyer Nark.

[davidnark]

Good find lawyer Nark.

Steve, anyway to turn off the smiles that weren't intended to be smiles in my post?

Actually, SLU has a big advantage in getting these two guys back in that they can sit out the next 8 weeks and resume play immediately at SLU or wait a year and 8 weeks to do so at any other institution. If Willie is serious about entering the draft this summer, staying at SLU this year would be a wise choice even if the university did give him the shaft.

I have also been told that the coaches, while not happy that the players got themselves in this situation, have been very supportive of the players throughout the process. I understand, however, that the university went out of its way to prevent the coaches from getting involved in this disciplinary process.

[jbizzle09]

maybe they got the hours in the summer or they can find some online class to enroll in for 5 weeks. im sure rick can find a way to get through this rule

It could be very possible that both took classes in the summer, as both were in the St. Louis area over the summer playing ball, if I recall. I have absolutely no idea if this is correct, just know that both are from outside of St. Louis yet spent a good amount of time here during the summer. If they didn't take any classes over the summer, I would think there would have to be some recourse if they are just suspended for this semester for them to be eligible to play after the semester ends. Would a certain amount of credit be given to them for the amount of classwork done so far this semester with the option of completing the classes at another institution or online by the end of the semester? Otherwise, considering that this ruling was made 6 weeks into the semester gives the players very little recourse other than transferring to another university now if they are unable to play after the semester ends.

[SluSignGuy]

Steve, anyway to turn off the smiles that weren't intended to be smiles in my post?

Emoticons fixed (let me know if you see different)

[davidnark]

Otherwise, considering that this ruling was made 6 weeks into the semester gives the players very little recourse other than transferring to another university now if they are unable to play after the semester ends.

Actually, it is exactly the opposite (see my post above). There is an exception to the "progress toward a degree rule" that allows them to immediately regain their eligibility at SLU. Anywhere else they couldn't begin playing for over a year.

[jbizzle09]

Steve, anyway to turn off the smiles that weren't intended to be smiles in my post?

Actually, SLU has a big advantage in getting these two guys back in that they can sit out the next 8 weeks and resume play immediately at SLU or wait a year and 8 weeks to do so at any other institution. If Willie is serious about entering the draft this summer, staying at SLU this year would be a wise choice even if the university did give him the shaft.

I have also been told that the coaches, while not happy that the players got themselves in this situation, have been very supportive of the players throughout the process. I understand, however, that the university went out of its way to prevent the coaches from getting involved in this disciplinary process.

Nevermind my previous post. Nark was right on top of this and has at least made me feel a lot better about this situation.