Mitchell and Reed suspended

[cheesycow]

I never thought that I may be so frustrated with SLU that I would consider stopping my support. I am seriously considering that now the only thing stopping me is that I don't know all the details of this event.

However, I do view this event with a perspective many lack. I've been a federal law enforcement officer the last 5 years and I know that 95% of all sexual assault and rape charges are bogus. That is a shame because it undermines the claims of true victims. I also know that as the saying goes, "you can indict a ham sandwich." Meaning, the information necessary to gain an indictment or even arrest these guys that night is minimal. It could've been accomplished with just her word against theirs. That did not happen which leads me to believe that she was not credible and there was no evidence to support her claims.

The school decides to drag this into the Fall Semester instead of handling it when the news would not have received so much attention. A few days before the beginning of basketball practice when local and national media is beginning to focus on the sport is terrible timing.

If I were one of these players no way I would return. If they were my son no way would I encourage them to stay.

A civil suit will bear out all those dirty details that SLU doesn't want exposed, the links to big time boosters and their involvement in pushing this issue. The school will be painted as racist. I hate the race card but in this instance I don't think I can defend the school. The rich white parents couldn't accept that their little girl was having sex with these black men and pushed this issue. The all white or predominately white panel gets to sit in judgement of these two black males. I know of one case where 1 female accused a male of date rape and 3-4 unconnected others later came forward. The student was kicked out after a drawn out hearing. That male was able to have multiple supporters with him as he sat at the table across from those giving testimony. That was in 1997.

Did the school provide more rights to this white student and other white students in similar circumstances? I think some good civil attorney's would have a field day and win or lose the University will look bad. These matters are mostly settled out of court to avoid such press. This matter should've been avoided from the beginning.

Those able to put this behind them as fans and focus on the season maybe missing one consideration. What about team chemistry? SLU just lost the two biggest leaders on the team and the two best players. The players will be on the side of the players.

You're joking, right? You can't honestly think that...

[TheA_Bomb]

'Missouri has "permanently suspended" running back Derrick Washington, who was charged earlier this week with felony sexual assault stemming from a June incident.'

Gary Pinkel and Mike Anderson have been pretty hardline on situations like these, so your bitterness should be directed elsewhere.

Some of you guys here should do yourselves a favor and spend an afternoon volunteering at any of the myriad domestic violence and abuse shelters in the area to cleanse your collective conscience.

"One guy wrote that if this was Mizzou they would still be on the team. Lets be clear, if this was ANY school in the country they would still be on the team. I don't understand this holier than thou crap SLU pulls out. Its a bottom tier 1 school on par with most tier 1 schools in the midwest. By the way Willie Reed is your best player and can't replaced. Rick needs to kick some ass and the holy rollers need to be fired over this. "

"i'm betting the sex was AWESOME. kwamain was a strength and conditioning all-american. she was probably loving every minute of it. raw deal. no pun intended."

Horrible.

I'll echo what was said before F-off.

I do volunteer at the Battered Women's Foundation of Ft. Worth. No posters advocated violence against women.

[cheesycow]

I'll echo what was said before F-off.

I do volunteer at the Battered Women's Foundation of Ft. Worth. No posters advocated violence against women.

Although one insinuated that she probably loved it.

[TheA_Bomb]

You're joking, right? You can't honestly think that...

I have experience in the area what is yours? Yes, I know that most claims are bogus. Obviously 95% is just a number used to illustrate a point and the actual number would be hard to determine.

[cheesycow]

I have experience in the area what is yours? Yes, I know that most claims are bogus. Obviously 95% is just a number used to illustrate a point and the actual number would be hard to determine.

My wife has dedicated the better part of her professional life to helping victims of domestic violence, which includes advocating for those women whose claims get tossed aside by the fraternity of nonbelieving men who wish they'd just go away.

[RiseAndGrind]

My wife has dedicated the better part of her professional life to helping victims of domestic violence, which includes advocating for those women whose claims get tossed aside by the fraternity of nonbelieving men who wish they'd just go away.

As has my girlfriend. Does that mean we have to agree?

This isn't to start an argument. It's mostly to point out that each person looks at this case differently. Doesn't mean either of one of us is right. As far as we know, no sexual assault occurred. That's all we can go off of. As unfairly as you may think that is, I think it's just as unfair to assume they are guilty but somehow got away with it.

[SluSignGuy]

Lets tread carefully here (not sure how else to phrase it).

[cheesycow]

As has my girlfriend. Does that mean we have to agree?

All I'm saying is if sexual assault really did happen, they're lucky that this is the punishment and not worse. I'm not saying they're for sure guilty, but I'm also not going to be the one jumping on the outrage at SLU bus since if it happened it's a heinous thing to do and they deserved far worse.

[NH]

Just because you believe accusations from a girl without evidence should not warrant a semester suspension does not mean you demean or disrespect abuse victims.

[cheesycow]

Just because you believe accusations from a girl without evidence should not warrant a semester suspension does not mean you demean or disrespect abuse victims.

But some here have, I'm not saying all- but some have.

[NH]

All I'm saying is if sexual assault really did happen, they're lucky that this is the punishment and not worse. I'm not saying they're for sure guilty, but I'm also not going to be the one jumping on the outrage at SLU bus since if it happened it's a heinous thing to do and they deserved far worse.

If the school could prove sexual assault happened, they would be expelled. The school can't prove anything, but because they don't want the wrath of the girl, her father and her lawyers the deal out an unreasonable and debased punishment. That is my take.

[TheA_Bomb]

My wife has dedicated the better part of her professional life to helping victims of domestic violence, which includes advocating for those women whose claims get tossed aside by the fraternity of nonbelieving men who wish they'd just go away.

Well good for her as true victims need help, hence why I volunteer my time. You can convince yourself that the "fraternity of nonbelieving men" are the problem if you want. Sometimes that might be the case and it probably was more so years ago but the majority of the time that isn't the case. Everyone is hurt by bogus claims and they happen all the time. There is no organization to advance the cause of men wrongfully accused who have their lives ruined by bogus claims. There is no pro bono help, they are treated as toxic and forever tainted. You can disagree if you want and you can be wrong.

You can also do us all a favor and F-off.

[RiseAndGrind]

All I'm saying is if sexual assault really did happen, they're lucky that this is the punishment and not worse. I'm not saying they're for sure guilty, but I'm also not going to be the one jumping on the outrage at SLU bus since if it happened it's a heinous thing to do and they deserved far worse.

See my edit.

If I am understanding your sentiment correctly (and I may not)...you are in the camp that they had to have some type of punishment? I would disagree. If they are guilty, I would think SLU would expel them. If cannot prove anything even close to a sexual assault then it should have been dropped.

For all those people out their clamoring that Willie and Kwamain still deserved a year suspension because they broke some type of rule: just stop. SLU doesn't care about if they were drunk, or had consensual sex. This punishment is about appeasement to the public. In all likelihood (based on them only receiving a year suspension) SLU was unable to prove anything, yet they felt like they had to do something to save face.

[cheesycow]

See my edit.

If I am understanding your sentiment correctly (and I may not)...you are in the camp that they had to have some type of punishment? I would disagree. If they are guilty, I would think SLU would expel them. If cannot prove anything even close to a sexual assault then it should have been dropped.

For all those people out their clamoring that Willie and Kwamain still deserved a year suspension because they broke some type of rule: just stop. SLU doesn't care about if they were drunk, or had consensual sex. This punishment is about appeasement to the public. In all likelihood (based on them only receiving a year suspension) SLU was unable to prove anything, yet they felt like they had to do something to save face.

I just don't think anyone on here knows all the details (and if they do, they're legally obliged to keep them to themselves), so to jump to a conclusion one way or the other is erroneous. I'm not saying I think SLU did the wrong or the right thing, but for all the posters who for 7 years have been thumbing their nose at my alma mater for their lack of morals- it certainly seems like morals are taking a backseat to basketball in most peoples minds.

and f-off yourself A-Bomb.

[NH]

I just don't think anyone on here knows all the details (and if they do, they're legally obliged to keep them to themselves), so to jump to a conclusion one way or the other is erroneous. I'm not saying I think SLU did the wrong or the right thing, but for all the posters who for 7 years have been thumbing their nose at my alma mater for their lack of morals- it certainly seems like morals are taking a backseat to basketball in most peoples minds.

and f-off yourself A-Bomb.

We can assume that the Univ. did not have evidence of sexual assault, otherwise the suspension would have been longer or permanent.

[cheesycow]

We can assume that the Univ. did not have evidence of sexual assault, otherwise the suspension would have been longer or permanent.

I'm not willing to assume that SLU had no evidence of any wrongdoing. Sorry.

[moytoy12]

I'm not willing to assume that SLU had no evidence of any wrongdoing. Sorry.

Agreed.

[NH]

I'm not willing to assume that SLU had no evidence of any wrongdoing. Sorry.

There is no way they could have evidence of sexual assault and only suspend them for a half-semester. That's simply not feasible. If it was sexual assault they would be gone and never coming back.

[cheesycow]

There is no way they could have evidence of sexual assault and only suspend them for a half-semester. That's simply not feasible. If it was sexual assault they would be gone and never coming back.

Or they're pulling what people here so affectionately refer to as a "mizzou" and ignoring their evidence in favor of bringing the two back in time for the 2nd semester. Really none of us knows anything.

[moytoy12]

Or they're pulling what people here so affectionately refer to as a "mizzou" and ignoring their evidence in favor of bringing the two back in time for the 2nd semester. Really none of us knows anything.

Or it's somewhere in between, where they have some evidence, but not enough to determine that a sexual assault occurred.

[cheesycow]

Or it's somewhere in between, where they have some evidence, but not enough to determine that a sexual assault occurred.

I'd agree with that. Evidence of improper behavior and misconduct but not enough to expel.

[RB2.0]

I'm not willing to assume that SLU had no evidence of any wrongdoing. Sorry.

I agree as well. You don't kick someone off campus for no reason, that just doesn't happen. The real question is the severity of the violation and resulting punishment. Was it too light or too harsh? Only 3 people know that. My best guess is that this gets handled with lawyers on both sides outside of court (and hopefully quickly for all involved).

Let's talk about abortion and capital punishment next.

[RUBillsFan]

I think it is fairly obvious what happened here. The pro Mizzou St. Louis media clearly planted this girl at SLU to seduce the best players on our team and then claim sexual assault which would thereby get these players in legal trouble and kicked off the team. These happenings would diminish SLU's chances of being a good team which would draw local attention away from Mizzou. Fortunately for SLU, the legal system did its job and the pro Mizzou St. Louis media's evil plan was thwarted. At this point, the girl's father (a die hard Missouri Valley enthuiast) got envolved in the situation. He could not fathom why Saint Louis University (which is in MISSOURI) was not part of the MISSOURI Valley conference. This fact so enraged the man that he decided to go balls to the wall in screwing SLU over thus he pursued and eventually got the players suspended by the school. I'm fairly certain that Guy Phillips is partially to blame for this whole mess as well and various other classic debates/issues discussed on this board are interwoven into the fabric of this case perhaps Brad Soderberg fits in somewhere and Rick's recruiting over players is what drove the media to such desperate measures.

In case you are not very bright, the above paragraph is a sarcasm and me joking around. Hopefully some of you got a laugh out of it as we could all use one given this crappy situation.

[cheesycow]

I think it is fairly obvious what happened here. The pro Mizzou St. Louis media clearly planted this girl at SLU to seduce the best players on our team and then claim sexual assault which would thereby get these players in legal trouble and kicked off the team. These happenings would diminish SLU's chances of being a good team which would draw local attention away from Mizzou. Fortunately for SLU, the legal system did its job and the pro Mizzou St. Louis media's evil plan was thwarted. At this point, the girl's father (a die hard Missouri Valley enthuiast) got envolved in the situation. He could not fathom why Saint Louis University (which is in MISSOURI) was not part of the MISSOURI Valley conference. This fact so enraged the man that he decided to go balls to the wall in screwing SLU over thus he pursued and eventually got the players suspended by the school. I'm fairly certain that Guy Phillips is partially to blame for this whole mess as well and various other classic debates/issues discussed on this board are interwoven into the fabric of this case perhaps Brad Soderberg fits in somewhere and Rick's recruiting over players is what drove the media to such desperate measures.

In case you are not very bright, the above paragraph is a sarcasm and me joking around. Hopefully some of you got a laugh out of it as we could all use one given this crappy situation.

I knew it had to be soderberg's fault.

[NH]

I think it is fairly obvious what happened here. The pro Mizzou St. Louis media clearly planted this girl at SLU to seduce the best players on our team and then claim sexual assault which would thereby get these players in legal trouble and kicked off the team. These happenings would diminish SLU's chances of being a good team which would draw local attention away from Mizzou. Fortunately for SLU, the legal system did its job and the pro Mizzou St. Louis media's evil plan was thwarted. At this point, the girl's father (a die hard Missouri Valley enthuiast) got envolved in the situation. He could not fathom why Saint Louis University (which is in MISSOURI) was not part of the MISSOURI Valley conference. This fact so enraged the man that he decided to go balls to the wall in screwing SLU over thus he pursued and eventually got the players suspended by the school. I'm fairly certain that Guy Phillips is partially to blame for this whole mess as well and various other classic debates/issues discussed on this board are interwoven into the fabric of this case perhaps Brad Soderberg fits in somewhere and Rick's recruiting over players is what drove the media to such desperate measures.

In case you are not very bright, the above paragraph is a sarcasm and me joking around. Hopefully some of you got a laugh out of it as we could all use one given this crappy situation.

Blake Ahearn and Josh Harrellson had to be involved too, right?