Mitchell and Reed suspended

[2010andBeyond]

To echo Bizzle's speculation, and I have no idea if this is required at SLU, I know a full-scholarship basketball player at another school and he is required to take summer classes because they are given housing and meals throughout the summer.

[DirtyRican]

If this happened at Mizzou these guys would be having dinner and a movie with Mrs. Alden tonight.

quote name='cheesycow' timestamp='1287022510' post='245920']

You guys all had me tricked into thinking you somehow got the better end of the moral compass when Iit came to your university. Came to commiserate and offer up that my alma mater has lost plenty of players in disgraceful fashion, but really it's a lot of the posters on this board that are disgraceful. Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves.

[jbizzle09]

Actually, it is exactly the opposite (see my post above). There is an exception to the "progress toward a degree rule" that allows them to immediately regain their eligibility at SLU. Anywhere else they couldn't begin playing for over a year.

Yep, realize it now after posting and then reading your posts. It seems like with this being the case, they really should stay. However, at this point, I am sure emotions are running high with both players.

[kshoe]

Steve, anyway to turn off the smiles that weren't intended to be smiles in my post?

Actually, SLU has a big advantage in getting these two guys back in that they can sit out the next 8 weeks and resume play immediately at SLU or wait a year and 8 weeks to do so at any other institution. If Willie is serious about entering the draft this summer, staying at SLU this year would be a wise choice even if the university did give him the shaft.

I have also been told that the coaches, while not happy that the players got themselves in this situation, have been very supportive of the players throughout the process. I understand, however, that the university went out of its way to prevent the coaches from getting involved in this disciplinary process.

Good catch Nark. This is why I don't like reading legal contracts; there's always an ammendment to the ammendment somewhere.

I agree about the advantages of them sticking it out at SLU, particularly Willie, if they indeed can be eligible to play at the end of the 1st semester (or at worst at the beginning of the 2nd semster).

While there is certainly reason to be upset at the players for getting themself in this situation in the first place, the manner with which SLU (not the Athletic Dept) has gone about this process is far more upsetting.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

They are fine. The rule you cited is actually Bylaw 14.4.3.1-(. Each player is allowed a one-time exception to the rule.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

+1 great find

[2010andBeyond]

+1 great find

Don't forget that the initial judgement was one year. Hopefully, they will take it in stride and realize that one semester isn't that big of a deal. After all, they can give slu the shaft after this year and leave. At this point they are even more severly penalized if they transfer.

[moytoy12]

No way either comes back. KW will end up at Wisconsin or some other BCS school. Willie will go to Mizzou or go pro.

This is a program killer. Can anybody say Craig Upchurch?

Majerus will have to defend this to every potential recruit. Why did SLU kick out its best two players? Because its against the rules for students at a Catholic school to have sex? Because they had sex with a white girl? Because they dated a white girl and a big money booster didn't like it? Potential recruits will here it all from other schools. Does RM want to stick around for that? NO WAY!

Is Floyd Irons out of jail yet? We may have a job for him.

It's not a program killer.

It seems pretty obvious to me that these guys did something to get in hot water (maybe it didn't match the "crime"). If RM can't defend the university's decision to punish bad behavior, then he's not very good at his job. And if RM wants to leave after this, then I would have very little respect for him. I've got to imagine he preaches some version of "respect authority". I would guess he preaches some version of "we're responsible for our actions." I've got to imagine he has used the whole "life's unfair" and "###### happens" speeches. If he took his ball and went home, it'd show me the type of person he really is. And for the record, I don't think he will. I think he honors his commitment, through good times and bad.

On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me though that an old school/disciplinarian can't handle discipline. ###### happens. There are rules, if you don't follow the rules (no matter how small), then you're at risk for punishment and the punishment might be unfair.

RM should move forward and I fully expect that from him. If he quits over this, then to hell with RM.

[Pirahna]

Emotions are not just running high with the players. From what I've heard from around campus students are also very upset. Many students who were in the past mild fans of the team were ready to commit themselves to the team, now it looks like SLU is taking away probably their only opportunity to experience SLU as a big time athletic environment. I for one think that if pressure is applied by the right people in the right places this decision by the administration could begin to waffle. I'm probably waaaaay too optimistic though (fingers are crossed)

[JohnnyJumpUp]

Some questions about the process:

Did both sides have licensed attorney's present? How many attorneys did each side have present? Were the attorneys allowed to present evidence and speak in the process? Did the rules permit the participation of attorneys? Did the accuser face the accused at the hearing? Were both sides parents allowed to attend and participate? How much notice were the sides given of the process rules and attendees? Did the hearing exceed the typical time allotment? How did the disinterested witnesses testify?

I think if everyone knew the answers to these questions they would be even more shocked today.

They just played a little more of the voice recording of Willie Sr. on Channel 5. He stated that the boys were advised by the school that legal representation was not necessary. If the other side had attorneys present and the school really advised them in this manner, that is f@cked up.

[moytoy12]

They just played a little more of the voice recording of Willie Sr. on Channel 5. He stated that the boys were advised by the school that legal representation was not necessary. If the other side had attorneys present and the school really advised them in this manner, that is f@cked up.

Agreed. SLU really seems to have poured gas on to the fire.

[JMM28]

This is what happens when you let a bunch of tenured academics with 0 real world experience handle something of this magnitude.

It blows up, then us real world folks have to come in and clean up their mess.

This seems to have been a cluster###### from the start, and a suspension this far into the semester is unacceptable.

I hope these guys stick it to SLU and leisure suit larry.

[TheChosenOne]

clearly slu has not proven them guilty of sexual assault. thats obviously grounds for expulsion.

what i would bet happened is that in the course of that investigation, the players admitted to being drunk, having booze at grand forest, maybe being at the bar, etc...

facts that they probably could not deny. there may even be a cohab policy at grand forest, there is at most other dorms.

there are probably additional student athlete rules they violated.

drinking with a shadowing athlete?

honestly if you add up all their ohfenses that night, a 1 semester suspension seems fair, if not a little easy. ive seen longer suspensions for less

The case comes down to two questions as far as the student court is concerned 1) was the girl drunk and 2) did they have sex with her. I had a friend expelled from SLU for having sex with a girl who was intoxicated and thus unable to give consent, so a one semester suspension does not seem so bad. Schools like Dayton have similar policies.

[2010andBeyond]

The case comes down to two questions as far as the student court is concerned 1) was the girl drunk and 2) did they have sex with her. I had a friend expelled from SLU for having sex with a girl who was intoxicated and thus unable to give consent, so a one semester suspension does not seem so bad. Schools like Dayton have similar policies.

Wow. Really?? I guess if you bang a drunk girl (who would do that??) you should make sure she enjoys it..

[joe_davola]

Kilcoyne had a nice rip session on Fox 2 just now. Questioning how the school could do this when no criminal charges were filed, etc. Sounds like he is echoing most of the thoughts on here...and he predicted that Majerus is eventually going ot go crazy over this. Should be interesting.

[slufan13]

the thing that bothers me is that if the same thing happened and i was in the place of willie, i highly doubt i'd be kicked out for a semester. i feel like slu is trying to uphold some reputation that they think they have and they are coming down harsher on them because they are athletes. they don't want people to think that they treat athletes better so instead of handling it like a normal case, they turn this into a 6 month fiasco.

i think kwamain will be back. willie.....i dont know. coming back is the best decision, but we'll see.

[TheChosenOne]

No way either comes back. KW will end up at Wisconsin or some other BCS school. Willie will go to Mizzou or go pro.

This is a program killer. Can anybody say Craig Upchurch?

Majerus will have to defend this to every potential recruit. Why did SLU kick out its best two players? Because its against the rules for students at a Catholic school to have sex? Because they had sex with a white girl? Because they dated a white girl and a big money booster didn't like it? Potential recruits will here it all from other schools. Does RM want to stick around for that? NO WAY!

Is Floyd Irons out of jail yet? We may have a job for him.

Mizzou didn't offer Willie for a reason and I am sure this situation does not help.

[NH]

Mizzou didn't offer Willie for a reason and I am sure this situation does not help.

We know where your true colors lie. Im sure Mike Anderson knew that WR would eventually be accused of sexual assault when he was in high school. Mizzou needs to get off their high horse. You didnt offer WR because of concerns about things off the basketball court, but they offered a guy with over 100 unexcused absences last year. So get off your hypocritical high horse, or preferably, get off this board and head over to tigerboard.

[kshoe]

Mizzou didn't offer Willie for a reason and I am sure this situation does not help.

Because they didn't think he would be as good as he turned out...

Even the great Mike Andersen makes mistakes in recruiting. Just ask Tyler Stone.

[kshoe]

We know where your true colors lie. Im sure Mike Anderson knew that WR would eventually be accused of sexual assault when he was in high school. Mizzou needs to get off their high horse. You didnt offer WR because of concerns about things off the basketball court, but they offered a guy with over 100 unexcused absences last year. So get off your hypocritical high horse, or preferably, get off this board and head over to tigerboard.

Amen. MU fans and other trolls should stay the hell off this board and let us wallow in our own misery.

[slufan13]

it sucks that we only have 10 scholarship players for the first semester (kwamain, willie, barnett) but if km and wr come back at the semester, we'll be fine and actually they could be fresher by the end of the season. that requires them staying in shape during the suspension. i think kwamain will, but we need willie to do so too.

[Westy03]

I wouldn't expect them to be here next semester

[NH]

I wouldn't expect them to be here next semester

Im hearing similar things

[jbizzle09]

I wouldn't expect them to be here next semester

Right now, emotions are probably running really high for both players and their families. And honestly, if I were them, I would probably be feeling the same thing in not wanting to come back, especially if I felt I was railroaded by the school. However, I feel that in the coming days and weeks, cooler heads and reason may prevail and that one, or both, may come to realize that the best course of action might be to stick it out and stay. I am sure that if you were to ask either one of them today what they plan on doing, they probably would say to hell with SLU, I am going somewhere else and I am going to sue the sh*t out of the school on top of it! However, after some thought on the subject, one or both might realize the best course of action will be to stay here and make the best of a bad situation.

[cheesycow]

If this happened at Mizzou these guys would be having dinner and a movie with Mrs. Alden tonight.

'Missouri has "permanently suspended" running back Derrick Washington, who was charged earlier this week with felony sexual assault stemming from a June incident.'

Gary Pinkel and Mike Anderson have been pretty hardline on situations like these, so your bitterness should be directed elsewhere.

Some of you guys here should do yourselves a favor and spend an afternoon volunteering at any of the myriad domestic violence and abuse shelters in the area to cleanse your collective conscience.

"One guy wrote that if this was Mizzou they would still be on the team. Lets be clear, if this was ANY school in the country they would still be on the team. I don't understand this holier than thou crap SLU pulls out. Its a bottom tier 1 school on par with most tier 1 schools in the midwest. By the way Willie Reed is your best player and can't replaced. Rick needs to kick some ass and the holy rollers need to be fired over this. "

"i'm betting the sex was AWESOME. kwamain was a strength and conditioning all-american. she was probably loving every minute of it. raw deal. no pun intended."

Horrible.

[TheA_Bomb]

I never thought that I may be so frustrated with SLU that I would consider stopping my support. I am seriously considering that now the only thing stopping me is that I don't know all the details of this event.

However, I do view this event with a perspective many lack. I've been a federal law enforcement officer the last 5 years and I know that 95% of all sexual assault and rape charges are bogus. That is a shame because it undermines the claims of true victims. I also know that as the saying goes, "you can indict a ham sandwich." Meaning, the information necessary to gain an indictment or even arrest these guys that night is minimal. It could've been accomplished with just her word against theirs. That did not happen which leads me to believe that she was not credible and there was no evidence to support her claims.

The school decides to drag this into the Fall Semester instead of handling it when the news would not have received so much attention. A few days before the beginning of basketball practice when local and national media is beginning to focus on the sport is terrible timing.

If I were one of these players no way I would return. If they were my son no way would I encourage them to stay.

A civil suit will bear out all those dirty details that SLU doesn't want exposed, the links to big time boosters and their involvement in pushing this issue. The school will be painted as racist. I hate the race card but in this instance I don't think I can defend the school. The rich white parents couldn't accept that their little girl was having sex with these black men and pushed this issue. The all white or predominately white panel gets to sit in judgement of these two black males. I know of one case where 1 female accused a male of date rape and 3-4 unconnected others later came forward. The student was kicked out after a drawn out hearing. That male was able to have multiple supporters with him as he sat at the table across from those giving testimony. That was in 1997.

Did the school provide more rights to this white student and other white students in similar circumstances? I think some good civil attorney's would have a field day and win or lose the University will look bad. These matters are mostly settled out of court to avoid such press. This matter should've been avoided from the beginning.

Those able to put this behind them as fans and focus on the season maybe missing one consideration. What about team chemistry? SLU just lost the two biggest leaders on the team and the two best players. The players will be on the side of the players.