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We need Goodwin and Isabell on the floor playing together for a significant amount of time for this team to be is good as it should be. Ford needs to make it work. All the dumping on Isabell is getting old.

What a game! Seton Hall with the win!

Isabell isn’t the problem, the offense that Ford is trying to run is the problem. They need to push the pace far more than they are currently. There is no bebefit to slowing down the offense when the two guys you have trying to run the point are not traditional point guards. He is setting them both up for failure.

First a quick note on SIU...the sky isn't falling ...We are still a B team....SIU and Pitt are both B teams...not bad losses...just lost opportunities...we played 2 teams similar to us and lost in close games....the damage was that.we played a really poor offensive game (even for the Bills) which is hard thing to do when you are near the bottom in offense . YET...we were able to hang in there till the final seconds because we have one of the top defenses in the game. When you have great defense , you are never out of the game. My advice is to write the SIU game off as an anomaly and move on....We are 6-2 at this point...which is where I had us at the beginning of the season....In the last 2 games , I had us 1-1 except turned around ...Butler loss and SIU win....it actually works out better this way....so we have.2 good wins...SH and But....B+ and A...quality wins against BE teams (A- conf). Which bring us to Ore St... A game we should win against a quality team....B+ Ore St poses some unique challenges First let's look at the report card...... .................................SLU..............................OSU.................................................SLU.............................OSU ..................................................OFF......................................................................................DEF............... PPG.........................F+...................................C+.................................................A.................................B+ FG%..........................D...................................B+.................................................A..................................B+ 3P%..........................D-....................................C..................................................A+....18th ITN............C+ FT%...........................F.....................................D......................................................................................... Reb............................A...................................B.................................................B-.................................B+ Top 100 ITN BLKS....Gordon...84th....French....97th ... .............Kelly....3rd Pts....Tinkle...42nd Reb.....Tinkle...28th Stls....Goodwin....97th ......Thompson Jr......66th Honor Roll ...the Bills Defense. Some interesting things here....A lot of top rated categories covered by OSU....This guy Kelly is a shot blocking machine....We just saw a good one in Bol at SIU who was 78th ITN...Kelly is way beyond that. We have 2 good ones in French and Gordon....he is better than the 2 of them combined stat wise.... Overall they are not as good as SIU in Off and a little better in D and Reb....You say SIU wasn't that good on OFF...that is wrong ...we shut them down...something we will have to do again to OSU.. WWN2D2W.....Tinkle , Tinkle little star....Nooo...Big Star....besides being a leader in the national categories of Pts and Reb ...he also leads the team in assists and FG%...Stop this guy....15pts or less....6reb...While that will be a big help that isn't the end of our issues...Kelley will be a big problem...shot blocker extraordinaire...Ford may have to run around in practice with a broom over his head knocking down shots....we will either have to avoid him or go around him....Putting up a bunch of 3s isn't the answer....The importance of the TO battle will be that we have to win the differential...besides Thompson Jr they have a few stealers....protect the ball....and last but not least....win the free throw battle....have I gone mad...no...OSU is a poor FT shooting team...could be a difference maker in a close game. Bottom line...With all that said, we can beat them....They are a B+ team...having the home advantage (hopefully another big crowd) plus a defense that will disrupt them evens the game out and gives us a slight advantage....key word is slight. If we shoot more normal this game and keep TOs down ...stop the Tinkle and avoid the blockster...we will win. Go Bills BTW ...even though the Bills are at 8 games OSU only has 7 so I am still a little short on data....After this game we will be playing with a full deck.

Howard > UMass > SIUC > SLU > Hall > Kentucky

Seton Hall just beat Kentucky.

Maybe he was a SIU fan. Ha.

With this offense I worry about them all. Not gonna worry about FSU and Houston, though. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Yes to everything.....The data is like a moving average in the market....it takes into acct everything that has happened including a little more weight to recent trends....SH is currently a B+ team... a little bit lower than when we played them but still a great win....it looks like an A- because we beat them at their place.....A win by SH over KY would help us....SH would move back to A-....I am currently showing KY over SH by 3....a very winnable game for SH....big hype ...big crowd......big time.... This is why I had mentioned in an earlier post that we should be rooting for all our opponents to win all their games (except against us)....It only helps the Bills...and when our opponents beat good teams it helps us more.

Ford comments after practice today... Some not so subtle questions about moving TI to the off guard position https://soundcloud.com/550ktrs/travis-ford-full-practice-media-availability

Roy, your qualifier that the A-10 champ also have a NET in the 80s is the real problem here. Almost by definition, any of the top 5 non-conference performers from the A-10 (SLU, VCU, Davidson, Dayton, St. Joes) can go 15-3 or 16-2 and they will end up with a NET in the 30-50 range. It would take one of the real bottom dwellers from non-con turning it around by going 15-3 for their end of season NET to be in the 80s. Look at the Billikens and their Pomeroy ranking right now. He has us as #76 overall and predicts us to go 21-10 and 12-6 in conference. Put differently, if we do that we'll likely still be in the 70-80 range per his model. So what do you think will happen to our ranking if we win 4 games more than the predicts and end up 25-6? We are going to be ranked much higher, probably in the 30-40 range. Safely in the NCAA at-large range.

I don't recall people complaining about Goodwin at the point last year. Seemed like he was doing a good job in his first year. I don't think the same can be said for Isabell this year. And whether it was NBA or another pro league, I don't think he's first eight games at PG are helping his cause.

im not ready to throw in the towel on isabell. the kid is fearless and does have some skills. he just needs to be put into a position he can succeed. that is on ford to do. the likes of him turning into allen iverson or kyrie irving is a tough expectation and that is what has been thrust on him with the offense we are utilizing.

Ford is trying to teach Isabell how to be a PG in 8 months (Aug-Mar). Ford is trying to teach Goodwin how to be a PG in 4 years.

SLU is where shots go to die plain and simple

First 10 seconds: TOWEL. Every Hargrove jump shot makes me wish he was on the SLU roster right now...

I actually think that Isabelle would score more points at the two, because it would allow our offense to flow better and get him better shots.

I think the problem with the title to this thread is that it assumes that there are only two options. 1. we do well this season, or win a particular game and this is because of the great talent that Ford has recruited, 2. we don't do as well as expected this season, or lose a particular game, and this is because Ford cannot coach. This sort of A or B mentality is the shortest of short-sided thinking among sports fans. There are all sorts of factors that lead to success or failure in any season and in any game. In college sports, it's matchups, home vs. road, injuries, girlfriend problems, family problems that we don't know about involving kids that may be hundreds of miles away from home. The list could go on and on and we'd never be able to put down all of the reasons. No coach is perfect. Majerus was one of the most brilliant basketball minds, but didn't recruit as well as he should have been able to and sounded like Drunk Uncle when giving a post game interview. Some coaches can't recruit or coach. We've had a few of those. Ford is an outstanding recruiter and has shown (last two seasons and defense right now) that he can coach. If he had some shooters, ones that were supposed to be here (not on him) and ones that he maybe didn't land (on him), then we'd be in a much different spot. I actually give him credit for winning the games we have won with such terrible shooting from the field and from the line. There's an argument that he's squeezed a lot out of guys that can't shoot. The problem right now is execution. JGood is not JGood from the end of last season right now. We don't have a calming influence in the offense right now like we did in Roby last season. The players need to play better within the system they have and make shots. I promise you this, if the players had been running the offense that they are learning in practice and if they had hit more shots (not coaching) then we would be undefeated and not having this discussion.

Just watched the replay of some of our offense from early in the second half. Once Goodwin got the rebound, he headed up court with some pace but not out of control. Once he got past mid court he dribbled with purpose into the defense. He found CAG for an open 3 look that French cleaned up because the D wasn't set under the hoop (not a great shot %age, but doing it quickly allowed our team to get the board and put back). The next time he forced the D to double team him and made a nice pass to French splitting the D and French made the easy bucket. I know it's just a snapshot, but Goodwin pressing the action after getting the board while staying in control created positive plays. I'd like to see more of this from Goodwin and Isabell.

To be fair, when Coach Ford was constructing his roster, he expected to have Ty Graves and Adonys Henriquez playing. That would have dramatically changed our ball-handling and shooting abilities. It is probably tough to just find a replacement when key pieces are dismissed from the University. You can tell that Coach is trying to remedy that with Yuri Collins and Gibson Jimmerson. No relief for this year, unfortunately.

Actually think Isabell is an asset and should play relatively big minutes. Just not at the point.

The loss of Jalen Johnson really hurt more than I think most expected. Potentially could have had Johnson, Welmer and Wiley coming off the bench this year.

I don't think it is fair to dump all this on Isabell. I saw a lot of crappy play last night by most of the team. I feel like Isabell has had more good passes than Goodwin this year, but admittedly not doing a great job at the point. The offense just sucks, period. It's like I'm watching the same crap I have been watching for 20 years. Great on defense, suck on offense....but we have exponentially more talent. I absolutely place some of the blame on the coach....but it is on all the players as well....plenty of open shots missed. They can't seem to execute anything. And free throws??? We hit them at a decent clip and we win the game. Whatever is going on needs to stop. There is a lot of mind games going on out there when a guy like Goodwin can't hit the broad side of the barn from the free throw line.We have world class defense. Top notch talent. Can't make a bucket even if we aren't being guarded. I still feel this is going to come together, but it sure is frustrating right now.

Houston up 6 @ OKST on FSMW

Don't work that way.