The official our offensive problems start with Isabell thread

[ARon]

Just gonna leave this here.  I think we’re going to need it a lot this season.

[ACE]

I get the frustration, but how bad would our offense be without him 

[billikenfan05]

He's an off guard who was recruited here to transition to point guard to give him a better shot at pro ball (please don't laugh: NBA).

[majerus mojo]

the board after a loss: 

 

[moytoy12]

2 minutes ago, ACE said:

I get the frustration, but how bad would our offense be without him 

Would it really be any different without him? 

[ACE]

6 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

the board after a loss: 

 

Well there are good people on both sides...

[slufan13]

Actually think Isabell is an asset and should play relatively big minutes. Just not at the point. 

[slu72]

Time to end the Isabell as PG experiment. He's a 2! 

[HoosierPal]

 

[ARon]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

He's an off guard who was recruited here to transition to point guard to give him a better shot at pro ball (please don't laugh: NBA).

I definitely laughed at that notion.

46 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Time to end the Isabell as PG experiment. He's a 2! 

I’m pretty much of the same mind.  Put Goodwin at the 1.  Isabell can spell Goodwin but mostly play the 2.

Honestly if this team can ever get a 8-10 point lead on anyone I’d go so far as to sit Isabell entirely in favor of Thatch.  He just just isn’t a good enough ballhandler or decision maker for me.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, ARon said:

I definitely laughed at that notion.

I’m pretty much of the same mind.  Put Goodwin at the 1.  Isabell can spell Goodwin but mostly play the 2.

Honestly if this team can ever get a 8-10 point lead on anyone I’d go so far as to sit Isabell entirely in favor of Thatch.  He just just isn’t a good enough ballhandler or decision maker for me.

i like the physical ability and the confidence thatch is playing but before we start putting him in the starting lineup he has to start making some shots.   for now he is a good breather guy that can play very good defense in my mind.   isabell plays before thatch. 

[cgeldmacher]

I actually think that Isabelle would score more points at the two, because it would allow our offense to flow better and get him better shots.

[RamJAMTIME]

10 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

He's an off guard who was recruited here to transition to point guard to give him a better shot at pro ball (please don't laugh: NBA).

He wants to go to the NBA and it was decided being a point guard was his best option? Unfortunately that isn't working. Ford needs to be honest with him and say no one's going to want a point guard who turns the ball over all the time and can't shoot. Get him on board to move to the 2 and focus on his shot instead of running the team. Better for the team and individual.

[billikenfan05]

18 minutes ago, RamJAMTIME said:

He wants to go to the NBA and it was decided being a point guard was his best option? Unfortunately that isn't working. Ford needs to be honest with him and say no one's going to want a point guard who turns the ball over all the time and can't shoot. Get him on board to move to the 2 and focus on his shot instead of running the team. Better for the team and individual.

I’m just relaying what I hear. My biggest pet peeve watching this team is that it reminds me of 5th grade basketball where two kids who want to play point insist on bringing the ball up. All I want is for when a big man gets a rebound to give it to the nearest guard and they run it or if a guard gets the rebound they bring it 

[Littlebill]

12 hours ago, RamJAMTIME said:

He wants to go to the NBA and it was decided being a point guard was his best option? Unfortunately that isn't working. Ford needs to be honest with him and say no one's going to want a point guard who turns the ball over all the time and can't shoot.

Which one of our PGs are you describing....? 

But Isabell’s the problem right?

[brianstl]

Isabell isn’t the problem, the offense that Ford is trying to run is the problem.  They need to push the pace far more than they are currently.  There is no bebefit to slowing down the offense when the two guys you have trying to run the point are not traditional point guards.  He is setting them both up for failure.

[Taj79]

I second what 05 is saying --- as I heard the same thing on being a point guard, the NBA, and Isabell.  And to defend Isabell, I think he is trying.  But after what --- four, five years of playing a certain way, for him or anyone else for that matter, to change overnight is not going to happen.  It would be akin to trying to make Dennis Rodman a scorer instead of a rebounder.  All in all, its a mindset and I am certain Isabell isn't there yet.  He may never get there who knows.  But at some point, the man in charge has to decide to either continue with the insanity, or cut bait and move on. 

I have never been an advocate for bringing in JUCOs.  With Rasheed Anthony and now Tramaine and Dion, I am staring to feel the very same way about grad transfers.  I thought we had th ebest of the bunch in Isabell and Wiley especially considering our shooting needs.  So far -- no good. 

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I second what 05 is saying --- as I heard the same thing on being a point guard, the NBA, and Isabell.  And to defend Isabell, I think he is trying.  But after what --- four, five years of playing a certain way, for him or anyone else for that matter, to change overnight is not going to happen.  It would be akin to trying to make Dennis Rodman a scorer instead of a rebounder.  All in all, its a mindset and I am certain Isabell isn't there yet.  He may never get there who knows.  But at some point, the man in charge has to decide to either continue with the insanity, or cut bait and move on. 

I have never been an advocate for bringing in JUCOs.  With Rasheed Anthony and now Tramaine and Dion, I am staring to feel the very same way about grad transfers.  I thought we had th ebest of the bunch in Isabell and Wiley especially considering our shooting needs.  So far -- no good. 

I think you're being too hard to Rashed Anthony he was here to be a depth guy. I think grad transfer is perfect for big men. I think it's a fine idea for the most part except when you're trying to teach them to run the point.

[moytoy12]

56 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Isabell isn’t the problem, the offense that Ford is trying to run is the problem.  They need to push the pace far more than they are currently.  There is no bebefit to slowing down the offense when the two guys you have trying to run the point are not traditional point guards.  He is setting them both up for failure.

I agree that the system is the prob, but those probs are made greater by isabell’s hero ball attitude. 

[willie]

29 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I second what 05 is saying --- as I heard the same thing on being a point guard, the NBA, and Isabell.  And to defend Isabell, I think he is trying.  But after what --- four, five years of playing a certain way, for him or anyone else for that matter, to change overnight is not going to happen.  It would be akin to trying to make Dennis Rodman a scorer instead of a rebounder.  All in all, its a mindset and I am certain Isabell isn't there yet.  He may never get there who knows.  But at some point, the man in charge has to decide to either continue with the insanity, or cut bait and move on. 

I have never been an advocate for bringing in JUCOs.  With Rasheed Anthony and now Tramaine and Dion, I am staring to feel the very same way about grad transfers.  I thought we had th ebest of the bunch in Isabell and Wiley especially considering our shooting needs.  So far -- no good. 

Obviously it depends on the player. The Robinson kid for Missouri last year was fabulous. 

[HoosierPal]

Ford is trying to teach Isabell how to be a PG in 8 months (Aug-Mar).  Ford is trying to teach Goodwin how to be a PG in 4 years.

[billiken_roy]

17 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

I agree that the system is the prob, but those probs are made greater by isabell’s hero ball attitude. 

i dont mind "hero ball" if it is from a player capable.   love the enthusiasm and confidence.   again the problem is the way we attack.   not the attackers.   too often when the go button is pushed it is with too little time to develop anything or the ball is in the wrong hands or the wrong spot.   that is why the likes of last year hines and now isabell come out looking selfish when in reality what choice did they have when it came time to go?   this is on ford.   i love his talent finding ability.   he now needs to step up his x's and o's ability.   he has the parts, use them correctly.   

[ACE]

15 hours ago, RamJAMTIME said:

He wants to go to the NBA and it was decided being a point guard was his best option? Unfortunately that isn't working. Ford needs to be honest with him and say no one's going to want a point guard who turns the ball over all the time and can't shoot. Get him on board to move to the 2 and focus on his shot instead of running the team. Better for the team and individual.

Let's not confuse NBA with professional ball. Unless I missed it, I've never heard Ford mention "NBA" when talking about TI - he talks about him going "pro."  There are a lot of pro leagues in the world other than the NBA - and that is where TI will go. Also, when JG was signed, there was chatter about him being an NBA player. I have my doubts about that, although I have no doubt he'll be able to make a nice salary playing pro ball somewhere.

[Taj79]

05 --- you may be very well right but that then begs to the question what depth did Anthony provide?  He played in 32 of 33 games with an average of just under 8 minutes a game.  The seven other guys on the roster (six after JG got shut down) averaged 27.8 mpg.  The guys that were suspended were guards ---- Henriquez, Bishop, Graves --- meaning the likelihood of Anthony's bench time increasing even with them on the roster was nil; he was there to spell the bigs --- which he didn't do in the least bit.  Rashed didn't provide much if anything.  And maybe that IS on me --- I kind of expect a fifth-year senior to come in and offer more --- more than a wet-behind-the-ears Hankton, or Gudmundsson or Jacobs.  More than a former walk-on or a current walk-on.  Kwan Fore is doing okay at Louisville.  Joseph Chartouny at Marquette.  Not great but okay.  So too is Isabell and Wiley.  Okay but not great.  Rashed was well short of okay.

willie --- Kassius Robertson was considered one of the jewels of the 2017-18 grad transfer class coming out of Canisius.  The fact that he led Mizzou in scoring and minutes played does not surprise me.  I kind of expect the same from Isabell as one of the jewels of the 2018-19 class.  I didn't know enough about Robertson and his planned role at Mizzou so I can't comment but will agree that some guys do and some don't.  But right now, as the arrow meter goes, I am still not completely sold on grad transfers as of now as they pertain to us.  But th ebook I snot closed on Isabell and Wiley.  Still lots of time to shine through. 

[billiken_roy]

2 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

05 --- you may be very well right but that then begs to the question what depth did Anthony provide?  He played in 32 of 33 games with an average of just under 8 minutes a game.  The seven other guys on the roster (six after JG got shut down) averaged 27.8 mpg.  The guys that were suspended were guards ---- Henriquez, Bishop, Graves --- meaning the likelihood of Anthony's bench time increasing even with them on the roster was nil; he was there to spell the bigs --- which he didn't do in the least bit.  Rashed didn't provide much if anything.  And maybe that IS on me --- I kind of expect a fifth-year senior to come in and offer more --- more than a wet-behind-the-ears Hankton, or Gudmundsson or Jacobs.  More than a former walk-on or a current walk-on.  Kwan Fore is doing okay at Louisville.  Joseph Chartouny at Marquette.  Not great but okay.  So too is Isabell and Wiley.  Okay but not great.  Rashed was well short of okay.

willie --- Kassius Robertson was considered one of the jewels of the 2017-18 grad transfer class coming out of Canisius.  The fact that he led Mizzou in scoring and minutes played does not surprise me.  I kind of expect the same from Isabell as one of the jewels of the 2018-19 class.  I didn't know enough about Robertson and his planned role at Mizzou so I can't comment but will agree that some guys do and some don't.  But right now, as the arrow meter goes, I am still not completely sold on grad transfers as of now as they pertain to us.  But th ebook I snot closed on Isabell and Wiley.  Still lots of time to shine through. 

anthony was likely brought in to be a practice player.  perfect attitude to fill the role and not disrupt team attitude.