GDT: SLU v. Dayton

[kappy96]

10 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Opposing teams are shooting about 97% from the FT line when staring at the new wind sock guys we have now.

Whoever runs those things needs to turn them on and off while guys are at the line…once their up they’re not distracting at all.

[Fraz]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont follow college basketball anymore like i used to, so i dont name them.  could you name the 5 centers that are better?  thanks.

There are not 5 pure centers in D1 better than Robbie.  Tough week but he’s really good

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, Fraz said:

There are not 5 pure centers in D1 better than Robbie.  Tough week but he’s really good

That would be a difficult ranking to do since the position is so different than it used to be with a lot of college teams playing with more of a power forward type as their 5 or have a more traditional center primarily to rebound and defend the rim vs. run offense thru. I personally would have a tough time ranking a guy as a top 5 pure center in college basketball when I somewhat question whether he could play that position in one of the top leagues. Robbie is super talented offensively, but lacks the athleticism, length, and strength to be the rebounder and rim protector programs in the top leagues covet at that position. I do see Michigan plays two center types (Goldin and Wolf), so maybe he’d fit with that type of lineup. Top centers would include guys like Johni Broome, Hunter Dickinson, Ryan Kalkbrenner, Oumar Ballo and guys with the NBA measureables like Maluach at Duke, either Ivisic, Derik Queen, Sorber, etc. Robbie is such a unique player to watch due to his odd body and inability to jump yet possessing elite skill. Personally I could never rank him as a top 5 center with those deficiencies which I assume make him undraftable, but no doubt he has skill. Posting the above about Michigan, maybe bring Tarris Reed home to play alongside Robbie?

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont follow college basketball anymore like i used to, so i dont name them.  could you name the 5 centers that are better?  thanks.

This is crazy. Every time we play a semi competent big Robbie gets turned into the Marshmellow man lol. Man was outplayed by a guy named Kyler Filewich of Wofford. But somehow he's a top 5 big in the country!?? I've not seen one game this year where I thought this guy here is one of the top 5 centers in college basketball.

He could be a top 5 passing big in the country but as the entire package that's a joke lol. I don't think he starts on majority of p5 teams. 

[HoosierPal]

Attendance listed at 9819.  While not a sellout, it's the largest crowd of the season and 16th largest ever at Chaifetz.

[Fraz]

Top 5 pure centers and top 5 big are completely different to be fair

[dlarry]

36 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

This is crazy. Every time we play a semi competent big Robbie gets turned into the Marshmellow man lol. Man was outplayed by a guy named Kyler Filewich of Wofford. But somehow he's a top 5 big in the country!?? I've not seen one game this year where I thought this guy here is one of the top 5 centers in college basketball.

He could be a top 5 passing big in the country but as the entire package that's a joke lol. I don't think he starts on majority of p5 teams. 

I think he’d be even better on a P5 team and definitely start. 
On a P5 team they’ll have another big out with him to cover any issues he might have. 
He would just distribute the ball and shoot the occasional 3. He’d open things up for a big 4 or 5 to really work inside. 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

1 minute ago, dlarry said:

I think he’d be even better on a P5 team and definitely start. 
On a P5 team they’ll have another big out with him to cover any issues he might have. 
He would just distribute the ball and shoot the occasional 3. He’d open things up for a big 4 or 5 to really work inside. 

Fair. I disagree with you but to each their own.

[laker119]

1 hour ago, Fraz said:

There are not 5 pure centers in D1 better than Robbie.  Tough week but he’s really good

There aren’t any pure centers left in basketball, in general.  This analysis is flawed.  The center for GW and the tall frenchie for Dayton exposed Robbie.  They took him to the woodshed.  Not sure how this is at all controversial.  He can dominate weak teams with stagnant/non athletic front lines because his lack of athleticism can’t be exposed.  It’s clear as day.

Im also not buying the hurt argument.  Unless Schertz comes out and says something, im not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[dlarry]

5 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Fair. I disagree with you but to each their own.

Works for me

[Fraz]

5 minutes ago, laker119 said:

There aren’t any pure centers left in basketball, in general.  This analysis is flawed.  The center for GW and the tall frenchie for Dayton exposed Robbie.  They took him to the woodshed.  Not sure how this is at all controversial.  He can dominate weak teams with stagnant/non athletic front lines because his lack of athleticism can’t be exposed.  It’s clear as day.

Im also not buying the hurt argument.  Unless Schertz comes out and says something, im not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

He’s unique and imo nothing short of one of the top 5 because of his point center ability.  None of the guys listed (Ballo, Kalk, etc) have nearly the same skill set.  Not a big in the country can do what he does at the level he does it.

What he lacks in rim protecting/measurables/defense he makes up for (most nights) by literally running the offense.

It was a tough week, I get it.

[Brighton]

You could put LeBron, Curry, Lillard, Shai Alexander, and Tatum on this team and it’ll find a way to screw up still.

This program will never get over the hump.

[laker119]

4 minutes ago, Fraz said:

He’s unique and imo nothing short of one of the top 5 because of his point center ability.  None of the guys listed (Ballo, Kalk, etc) have nearly the same skill set.  Not a big in the country can do what he does at the level he does it.

What he lacks in rim protecting/measurables/defense he makes up for my literally running the offense.

It was a tough week, I get it.

I think the argument that some on the board are trying to make is that he cannot “literally run the offense” effectively against good teams/athletic bigs (not a coincidence that good teams have athletic bigs).  I don’t doubt his unique skill set - but it’s not THAT unique where he can always impose his will. 

 

[Fraz]

1 minute ago, laker119 said:

I think the argument that some on the board are trying to make is that he cannot “literally run the offense” effectively against good teams/athletic bigs (not a coincidence that good teams have athletic bigs).  I don’t doubt his unique skill set - but it’s not THAT unique where he can always impose his will. 

 

Understood.  And no doubt he was stymied this week.

Hope we can make our adjustments 

[TheA_Bomb]

Top 5 Centers, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for what CJS wants to do Avila is usually great. But, I think if he were in the SEC he'd be abused in the paint. However, all around, he's pretty good.

 

He is the 2nd highest rated C for PPG according to: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/stats/player

Centers that are in the conversation as being better:

KU Hunter Dickinson

SDS Oscar Cluff

CRE Ryan Kalbrenner

IU Omur Ballo

UM Danny Wolf

MU Derik Queen

 

[Brighton]

12 hours ago, dlarry said:

Sucks. Doesn’t matter who the players are, who the coach is, what conference they are in, or what year it is, the Bills have an uncanny ability to build just enough momentum to begin to get the city excited and then they crap the bed. 

Long beat me to it. It’s insane.

[TheA_Bomb]

19 minutes ago, laker119 said:

I think the argument that some on the board are trying to make is that he cannot “literally run the offense” effectively against good teams/athletic bigs (not a coincidence that good teams have athletic bigs).  I don’t doubt his unique skill set - but it’s not THAT unique where he can always impose his will. 

 

He can't impose his will that's true. What UD did was not to double-team him. He can usually draw the double team and pass out of it effectively. Because UD flipped the script on him and has athletic big men that defended him well 1:1 it took away that aspect of his game. So he was off. Add to it that he has to work harder on the defensive end to defend athletic big men.

Maybe he'll learn from the experience of having a team play him straight up man to man without doubling and be better next time. He's a smart player. That's how he wins he usually plays smart.

Edit: just read Stu he said the problem was UD double team him and that he needs to get rid of the ball quicker.  Maybe I'm biased as I didn't count the TOs when they played him 1:1. Also I think the other players need to move better to receive passes. 

I really like the simple dribble hand off by Avila at the top of the arch. He can hand off effectively screening and roll himself or the player shoots a 3. Or he can deny the hand off and make a move to the basket driving or dishing. I didn't see that enough last night. 

[cheeseman]

13 hours ago, Fraz said:

Wouldn’t even say that.

We’d be better if he sat

No - when he went out with 2 fouls early in the first half that is when Dayton pulled away.  He did not have a good game but he did rebound and defended.

[cheeseman]

14 minutes ago, laker119 said:

I think the argument that some on the board are trying to make is that he cannot “literally run the offense” effectively against good teams/athletic bigs (not a coincidence that good teams have athletic bigs).  I don’t doubt his unique skill set - but it’s not THAT unique where he can always impose his will. 

 

Maybe the problem is we don't have the other players he had around him at ISU

[TheChosenOne]

38 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Fair. I disagree with you but to each their own.

Agreed, it is a dumb sports talk radio argument to have where you can just keep arguing back and forth. I just shake my head when someone says he is a top 5 true center in college basketball and would be even more so in a power league since they would have other players who can defend the rim and rebound which one would think would make him not a true center. But, it is really dumb to argue about since I am sure we all love Robbie, so highlighting his obvious deficiencies which also presumably discredit him from receiving NBA attention is not worthwhile either. We can all agree we love Robbie and hope to see him return to his previous high level of play.

I do have one question, he is currently able to dunk, right? Watching the game my friend and I after his pump fake and straight line drive to the rim where he missed the lay in were like f'ing dunk that and then we both looked at each other and were like can he dunk? It looks like he had one dunk last season, does he have any this season?

[BLIKNS]

Off night for Robbie,but can use to our advantage against Dayton, they may underestimate him

[willie]

33 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

He can't impose his will that's true. What UD did was not to double-team him. He can usually draw the double team and pass out of it effectively. Because UD flipped the script on him and has athletic big men that defended him well 1:1 it took away that aspect of his game. So he was off. Add to it that he has to work harder on the defensive end to defend athletic big men.

Maybe he'll learn from the experience of having a team play him straight up man to man without doubling and be better next time. He's a smart player. That's how he wins he usually plays smart.

Edit: just read Stu he said the problem was UD double team him and that he needs to get rid of the ball quicker.  Maybe I'm biased as I didn't count the TOs when they played him 1:1. Also I think the other players need to move better to receive passes. 

I really like the simple dribble hand off by Avila at the top of the arch. He can hand off effectively screening and roll himself or the player shoots a 3. Or he can deny the hand off and make a move to the basket driving or dishing. I didn't see that enough last night. 

I think Stu was right on. Turnovers were when he kept the ball too long. 

[TRN]

We’ve got a coach that takes ownership and responsibility, it’s been a long time.  He will get things rolling.

https://x.com/joshschertzslu/status/1885719844902871334?s=46&t=FzTA0yhWVP46wKdlcufK-w

[dlarry]

34 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Agreed, it is a dumb sports talk radio argument to have where you can just keep arguing back and forth. I just shake my head when someone says he is a top 5 true center in college basketball and would be even more so in a power league since they would have other players who can defend the rim and rebound which one would think would make him not a true center. But, it is really dumb to argue about since I am sure we all love Robbie, so highlighting his obvious deficiencies which also presumably discredit him from receiving NBA attention is not worthwhile either. We can all agree we love Robbie and hope to see him return to his previous high level of play.

I do have one question, he is currently able to dunk, right? Watching the game my friend and I after his pump fake and straight line drive to the rim where he missed the lay in were like f'ing dunk that and then we both looked at each other and were like can he dunk? It looks like he had one dunk last season, does he have any this season?

 I’m not saying he is a top 5 center or top 5 big. Want I was saying is that his skill set is more beneficial for a team that has more talent around him.

I thinks he would start and excel for a P5 team. For a team like the Bills I think he is sometimes forced to do  too much.

[Gremio14]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Attendance listed at 9819.  While not a sellout, it's the largest crowd of the season and 16th largest ever at Chaifetz.

 I arrived late last night.  Parked in Weber so had to access the stands at court level.  Entered  just as Kobe scored the 3.  The resultant wave of sound at court level was unbelievable.  I’m a relatively large guy (6’2” 210) but my date is only 5’2” 110.  The blast almost knocked her down. The decibel level was even higher as Gibson lead the comeback late in the second half.  I can easily see why a packed Chaifetz is considered the toughest place to play in the A10.