Mass Exiting?

[HoosierPal]

 

[NextYearBill]

18 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

 

thank God. 

[White Pelican]

22 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

 

I'll miss his goaltending. It was the one thing he was consistent at.

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

6 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

I'll miss his goaltending. It was the one thing he was consistent at.

I'll miss being able to Bruuuuuuuuuce at someone.

[TRN]

10 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

I'll miss being able to Bruuuuuuuuuce at someone.

You can always go to a Springsteen concert, or watch Rams games from 25 years ago.

[Taj79]

Another feather in the "Travis Ford Big Man Development" chapter.  

[slu72]

Watching him at MB I thought there was potential. But he plays soft and never just stepped it up. Under a different coach, who knows? You can’t teach 7’. 

[almaman]

6 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

 

avg pts plus Rs < height

[SLUMS81]

We complain when freshman bigs who don’t make headlines at SLU go elsewhere, develop their skills, and find success.

BZ is at the very beginning of his career.   We have all seen that the TF coaching regime was never able to develop bigs.

Not so sure we should be celebrating BZ’s departure.

[cheeseman]

16 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said:

We complain when freshman bigs who don’t make headlines at SLU go elsewhere, develop their skills, and find success.

BZ is at the very beginning of his career.   We have all seen that the TF coaching regime was never able to develop bigs.

Not so sure we should be celebrating BZ’s departure.

Don't you think if Schertz is really coming that the players already know who he wants to keep?  My guess is Bruce is not one of them.

[Aquinas]

4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Don't you think if Schertz is really coming that the players already know who he wants to keep?  My guess is Bruce is not one of them.

I dont think they know anything directly or indirectly from Schertz. But they can see the characteristics of the players used in his 5 out style of play. They are also probably  unsettled by the delays. 

[Taj79]

Every kid, on every team, in every year should use the portal.  It's a mercenary's best friend.  Frankly, I'm surprised Thames and Hughes haven't at least peeked through the open door.  I will say at least Thames and Hughes appear to have the athlketicism the 5-Out offense desires.  

[cheeseman]

51 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I dont think they know anything directly or indirectly from Schertz. But they can see the characteristics of the players used in his 5 out style of play. They are also probably  unsettled by the delays. 

I doubt that Tate is contacting all these portal players without some direction from Schertz.  

[Bilzz]

59 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

I dont think they know anything directly or indirectly from Schertz. But they can see the characteristics of the players used in his 5 out style of play. They are also probably  unsettled by the delays. 

If Tate is going to be kept around (as has been suggested), I'm sure Schertz has had time to review the roster and backchannel to Tate who he wants to keep and who he doesn't. Having watched a bunch of Indy State the last couple weeks, the only players from last year who would seem to fit the system would be Hughes, Gibby, and Curcic. A couple observations. All his bigs are highly-skilled passers who can shoot a little. He's mentioned his offense runs through the five. Zhang, Ezewiro, and SVB don't really fit the mold. He needs a Connor Turnbull/Brock Vice type. The spacing created by the offense  leads to a lot of open threes and his guys are all pretty decent shooters. As much as I like Kellen, I don't think he's a strong enough shooter to thrive in that offense. Hughes, Gibby, and Curcic seem to be options, though.

[HoosierPal]

12 minutes ago, Bilzz said:

If Tate is going to be kept around (as has been suggested), I'm sure Schertz has had time to review the roster and backchannel to Tate who he wants to keep and who he doesn't. Having watched a bunch of Indy State the last couple weeks, the only players from last year who would seem to fit the system would be Hughes, Gibby, and Curcic. A couple observations. All his bigs are highly-skilled passers who can shoot a little. He's mentioned his offense runs through the five. Zhang, Ezewiro, and SVB don't really fit the mold. The spacing created by the offense  leads to a lot of open threes and his guys are all pretty decent shooters. As much as I like Kellen, I don't think he's a strong enough shooter to thrive in that offense. Hughes, Gibby, and Curcic seem to be options, though.

Jimerson's 3% last season = 35.9% on 220 attempts

Hughes 3% = 35.5% on 138 attempts

Thames 3% = 36.1% on 36 attempts

Curcic 3% = 42.9% on 28 attempts

Thames is your best rebounder of these four.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, SLUMS81 said:

We complain when freshman bigs who don’t make headlines at SLU go elsewhere, develop their skills, and find success.

BZ is at the very beginning of his career.   We have all seen that the TF coaching regime was never able to develop bigs.

Not so sure we should be celebrating BZ’s departure.

For him maybe?'

[SLU_Lax]

Yeah. Thames is a great fit I think. Hargrove would’ve been a really good fit. 
 

Plus you can’t teach Thames height. 

[Bilzz]

10 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Jimerson's 3% last season = 36% on 220 attempts

Hughes 3% = 35% on 138 attempts

Thames 3% = 36% on 36 attempts

Curcic 3% = 43% on 28 attempts

Thames is your best rebounder of these four.

I'd love it if Schertz could work Thames into the model because I think he's got a lot of potential, but of the six guys on ISU's team that played essentially in every game, here's the stats:

40% on 129 attempts

42% on 259 attempts

36% on 306 attempts

36% on 80 attempts

45% on 85 attempts

36% on 112 attempts

The ISU offense leads to a lot more open looks. Gibby would probably thrive not having to spend 35 minutes weaving every game to even be able to take a shot. He was also 40% on 212 attempts in 2022-23 when SLU had a decent PG. Larry was also 41% on 29 attempts in 2022-23. Djorde was very efficient in a small sample size. Do we think Thames can maintain a 36% 3P% if he had to 2.5x or 3x his attempts? If he was also 0 for 1 in limited time in 2022-23. 

Thames' game is much more akin to Goodwin. I'm obviously not saying he's Goodwin, but he gots a lot of his points on drives, offensive rebounds, etc.. Schertz offense runs through shooters. Tons and tons of potential. I just have questions if he fits the mold.

[HoosierPal]

22 minutes ago, Bilzz said:

I'd love it if Schertz could work Thames into the model because I think he's got a lot of potential, but of the six guys on ISU's team that played essentially in every game, here's the stats:

40% on 129 attempts

42% on 259 attempts

36% on 306 attempts

36% on 80 attempts

45% on 85 attempts

36% on 112 attempts

The ISU offense leads to a lot more open looks. Gibby would probably thrive not having to spend 35 minutes weaving every game to even be able to take a shot. He was also 40% on 212 attempts in 2022-23 when SLU had a decent PG. Larry was also 41% on 29 attempts in 2022-23. Djorde was very efficient in a small sample size. Do we think Thames can maintain a 36% 3P% if he had to 2.5x or 3x his attempts? If he was also 0 for 1 in limited time in 2022-23. 

Thames' game is much more akin to Goodwin. I'm obviously not saying he's Goodwin, but he gots a lot of his points on drives, offensive rebounds, etc.. Schertz offense runs through shooters. Tons and tons of potential. I just have questions if he fits the mold.

Good stuff.  Schertz approach, as we have seen, is either shoot the 3 or take it to the rim. Thames excelled at the rim for us this past season.  He shot 66% from 2, many of those shots at the rim.  His 55% FT shooting has to improve. 

Thames may be eligible for a Medical Hardship Waiver giving him a 5th year.  He hit the Waiver benchmarks for games played and timing of those games (1st half of the season). Medical Waivers typically aren't discussed until the final year.  Of course, players staying around for 5 years is quickly becoming a historical event.

[TRN]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Every kid, on every team, in every year should use the portal.  It's a mercenary's best friend.  Frankly, I'm surprised Thames and Hughes haven't at least peeked through the open door.  I will say at least Thames and Hughes appear to have the athlketicism the 5-Out offense desires.  

That works in theory with one caveat, if you enter the portal your current team doesn’t have to take you back and honor your scholarship.  So, be careful what you wish for, as it could backfire if you have any intentions of returning.

[Gremio14]

1 hour ago, Bilzz said:

I'd love it if Schertz could work Thames into the model because I think he's got a lot of potential, but of the six guys on ISU's team that played essentially in every game, here's the stats:

40% on 129 attempts

42% on 259 attempts

36% on 306 attempts

36% on 80 attempts

45% on 85 attempts

36% on 112 attempts

The ISU offense leads to a lot more open looks. Gibby would probably thrive not having to spend 35 minutes weaving every game to even be able to take a shot. He was also 40% on 212 attempts in 2022-23 when SLU had a decent PG. Larry was also 41% on 29 attempts in 2022-23. Djorde was very efficient in a small sample size. Do we think Thames can maintain a 36% 3P% if he had to 2.5x or 3x his attempts? If he was also 0 for 1 in limited time in 2022-23. 

Thames' game is much more akin to Goodwin. I'm obviously not saying he's Goodwin, but he gots a lot of his points on drives, offensive rebounds, etc.. Schertz offense runs through shooters. Tons and tons of potential. I just have questions if he fits the mold.

There is no way JS wants Thames to leave.  Has more upside potential than anyone on either ISU or SLU.

 And he has the one extremely rare quality - he is unselfish.  The only Billiken more unselfish than him is Tierra Simon….;)

[Taj79]

@TRN:  I acknowledge/recognize that caveat.  So to me, before you portal, you'd better have had a conversation with the remaining staff about your intentions and plans in order to keep the return door open OR you roll with your punch and accept whatever consequences come with your portal entry.  With every decision there are consequences.  Problem today seems to be the reluctance to accept the consequences of your decision.  

Maybe both van Bussel and Zhang end up at a place where they become the next Lasina Traore.  It is painfully obvious that you don't come to Saint Louis University to pad your big man career, just like you don't go to Penn State to be a quarterback.  A linebacker yes.  A quarterback, no.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Maybe both van Bussel and Zhang end up at a place where they become the next Lasina Traore.  It is painfully obvious that you don't come to Saint Louis University to pad your big man career,

Big #1:  Pre SLU 4.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 52% shooting.  at SLU 12.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 54% shooting.  That's 280% scoring and 177% rebounding improvement.

Big #2, Pre SLU 3.2 pg, 3.6 rpg, 50% shooting.  At SLU 8.9 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 58% shooting.  That's 278% scoring and 230% rebounding improvement.

Easy to figure out who these two recent bigs are. 

What is your definition of improvement?

 

[ACE]

4 hours ago, SLU_Lax said:

Yeah. Thames is a great fit I think. Hargrove would’ve been a really good fit. 
 

Plus you can’t teach Thames height. 

I am a fan of Thames potential. I agree that he would fit with Schertz. His versatility coming off the bench would be valuable.

Even though he didn't shoot a ton of 3s, his percentage was very solid. His shot looked a lot better than I expected. In the Schertz offense, since they are all good passers, they don't just get 3 attempts, they are often quality WIDE open 3 attempts.

As a point of comparison, this is Jayson Kent's 3% percentage, year by year

28

26

27

36% this season

 

[Taj79]

@HoosierPal:  My bigs are van Bussel and Zhang.  Following in the footsteps of DJ Foreman, Rashed Anthony, Jimmy Bell Jr., Madani Diarra, Andre Lorentsson, Lassina Traore, and Mouhamadou Cisse.  Who are these unnamed bigs you mention?  Big #1 looks like Ezewiro.  Not hard to improve when your played in a limited role with that kind of talent at LSU and Georgetown.  Big #2 appears to be Okoro.  A guy who was never really a part of Oregon's guard-laden offense.  Two aberrations in a historical string that stretches over 5+ years with multiple candidates for failure. 

The last big that might have progressed positively here was Ian Vouyoukous.  Maybe Rob Loe as well. Brian Conklin was NOT a big.