GDT: SLU v. Dartmouth

[willie]

23 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

@slu92 I don't agree with your conclusions. The Tatum stuff was wild speculation, message board fodder.   As for Hughes, he's an ambassador of the program. He was often in attendance before his son started playing.  Perhaps he knows this whole thing is a house of cards about to come down and he doesn't want his kid to go through that at SLU. I don't fault him. 

@cheeseman I agree it's almost like we can't afford to not fire Ford.  Maybe that group of boosters that approached May to make a change last season is selling off their Doge coin now for the buy out.  I hope so and I hope the AD is canned too.

I think Pestello is clueless. What can we do to raise the profile of these issues?

Again Please provide some proof that a group of boosters wanted to buy out Ford’s contract. Cheese said he heard it from someone second hand. Personally don’t believe it. 

[TheChosenOne]

10 minutes ago, willie said:

Again Please provide some proof that a group of boosters wanted to buy out Ford’s contract. Cheese said he heard it from someone second hand. Personally don’t believe it. 

I think getting into details would only hurt the program at this point, lets just leave it be. I think one could post commentary from Frank C. and other statements from those connected to the program last spring in addition to staff movement and NIL struggles that make it clear there was some unrest to put it mildly. Going deeper than that likely does not need to be on this board.

[TheA_Bomb]

1 minute ago, willie said:

Again Please provide some proof that a group of boosters wanted to buy out Ford’s contract. Cheese said he heard it from someone second hand. Personally don’t believe it. 

I have no proof besides rumors we've heard and then a public show of support for Ford by the AD.  Usually those public show's of support happen for a reason. I hope it happened.

You can not believe it.  Doesn't change the reality that Ford needs to go.

The pro May and Ford crowd can keep the semantic arguments and the requests for proof going as their only defense.  All the proof you need are results on the court. Check the official box scores. There's your proof. 27 years of proof.  Losing record vs rivals. 1 win in the NCAA tournament evah.  Proof enough.

[DeSmetBilliken]

53 minutes ago, Westy03 said:

The BVF’s stated goals are first and foremost pay the seniors and players will graduate as Billikens. This seems like a major concern attracting impact freshmen. 

Agreed. I don’t know if this setup for the BVF was made out of some preference on SLU’s end, or made out of a feeling of necessity to keep the players they had at the time (Yuri, Jimerson, etc). Regardless, it seems to be a problem with attracting players from outside , be that freshmen or impact transfers. 
The question now is whether the younger players on the roster will justify the emphasis on paying to keep existing players vs paying new players. We don’t know the answer yet.

As others have said, NIL has to a fairly significant extent neutralized Ford’s likely strongest attribute as a coach…recruiting. His player development isn’t stellar, and I don’t think he has shown an ability to get his teams to play above their talent level. 

If SLU wants to be a factor in college basketball going forward, they either need shift their focus on NIL to bring in impact players, or if they’re still set on paying to keep their existing players, they need a coach who can implement a system and consistently identify and develop under the radar talent. Ford isn’t the coach needed for the second of those options, and it’s a bit questionable if keeping him would yield good results under the first option.

[willie]

1 minute ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I have no proof besides rumors we've heard and then a public show of support for Ford by the AD.  Usually those public show's of support happen for a reason. I hope it happened.

You can not believe it.  Doesn't change the reality that Ford needs to go.

The pro May and Ford crowd can keep the semantic arguments and the requests for proof going as their only defense.  All the proof you need are results on the court. Check the official box scores. There's your proof. 27 years of proof.  Losing record vs rivals. 1 win in the NCAA tournament evah.  Proof enough.

You are avoiding the point. I don’t believe there were any rumors besides Cheese’s comment. I am not arguing for or against May or Ford but trying to stop what I believe is a false narrative. 

[Westy03]

4 minutes ago, willie said:

You are avoiding the point. I don’t believe there were any rumors besides Cheese’s comment. I am not arguing for or against May or Ford but trying to stop what I believe is a false narrative. 

No idea if it’s true or not but I heard something similar happened in the off-season. 

[DeSmetBilliken]

2 minutes ago, willie said:

You are avoiding the point. I don’t believe there were any rumors besides Cheese’s comment. I am not arguing for or against May or Ford but trying to stop what I believe is a false narrative. 

There’s no way that Frank C made this video without being told that somebody was pushing for Ford to be bought out. 

[TheChosenOne]

2 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

There’s no way that Frank C made this video without being told that somebody was pushing for Ford to be bought out. 

And I think Frank knows the group pretty damn well.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

3 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

For a coach to be successful at SLU it'll have to be someone that can inspire donations to NIL. I don't think we have donors that will just give no matter what like some places.  Someone will need to excite them and advocate for money.  The lack of enthusiasm right now is why we're not getting money. 

Going back to this, I’ve heard it argued on here that whether or not we like Ford we need to continue sending cash his/BVF’s way. This is no different than the parents of a child with substance abuse issues financially supporting their child because they think things will eventually improve. They rarely do.  A very tough spot to be in but it’s nothing more than enabling bad behavior/coaching. Things won’t improve until the root issue is addressed. 
 

[wgstl]

All this talk after a win. Just wait till we lose to bad teams, which will happen. The board is going to burn. 

[Westy03]

2 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

There’s no way that Frank C made this video without being told that somebody was pushing for Ford to be bought out. 

I forgot how cringe this actually was. Ford sure knows how to play the local media. Yes frank the boosters did pay the players to stay last year for Fords best team ever, which resulted in no postseason. 

[TRN]

I don’t know why people say we can’t afford to buyout Ford.  There are a couple of donors that could write the check to take care of it.  Like the donor(s) who was/were responsible for the Majerus era. 

[TheChosenOne]

8 minutes ago, Westy03 said:

I forgot how cringe this actually was. Ford sure knows how to play the local media. Yes frank the boosters did pay the players to stay last year for Fords best team ever, which resulted in no postseason. 

I assume Frank was also connecting Ford to job openings that helped him get that new contract hahaha.
 

My most cringe Frank moment was when that hack from the PD, Jesus I think was his name, questioned Ford about the number of players early in his tenure that had been kicked out of school. While he was a hack, it was certainly a fair question. Frank interrupts the guy and answers for Ford along the lines of, of course he recruits guys who have the character traits to be successful at SLU yada yada yada. It was so bizarre to see a media member essentially take a challenging question for a coach.

I hope Frank gets some kick back for carrying the water for Ford and the program. Maybe just a new toupee or autographed photo of Patricia Heaton?

[Pistol]

Oddly enough, Frank has barely mentioned the Bills this season and when he does, it's normally to highlight that things aren't going well. Maybe he feels betrayed.

[TheChosenOne]

27 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Oddly enough, Frank has barely mentioned the Bills this season and when he does, it's normally to highlight that things aren't going well. Maybe he feels betrayed.

That’s really interesting/surprising. I’m not on X anymore, so I would have assumed he limited his posts to the wins. Maybe he was caught up in the De Smet football season?

Part of me also wonders with what may have transpired in the spring whether Ford has essentially checked out. His closest tie on the coaching staff jumped to North Texas, Bailey who was his first assistant coaching hire at SLU jumped to Loyola, he brought in an assistant with ties to the previous SLU coaching staff, and now his media buddy isn’t even weighing in.

[DeSmetBilliken]

10 minutes ago, Pistol said:

Oddly enough, Frank has barely mentioned the Bills this season and when he does, it's normally to highlight that things aren't going well. Maybe he feels betrayed.

I generally like Frank, but if this season really starts to go south, as it looks like it might, I might amuse myself by replying/quoting his SLU posts with things like “Nevertheless Frank lashed out at SLU fans last spring when they suggested that this was where the program was headed.”

Also, I speculate that people inside the program knew that this team wasn’t going to be good, hence the lack of coverage or effort to be seen. Frank could just be following orders…if you don’t talk about the team, no one will know they’re bad.

[TheA_Bomb]

Sometimes when you're too close to a situation you can't see it for what it is.  Like being in a toxic relationship everyone else knows but the 2 in it. 

[TheA_Bomb]

59 minutes ago, willie said:

You are avoiding the point. I don’t believe there were any rumors besides Cheese’s comment. I am not arguing for or against May or Ford but trying to stop what I believe is a false narrative. 

I directly addressed your point about proof. If you're trying to stop a false narrative for whatever reason just say so. OK so no boosters wanted Ford fired last season.  That means there's a lack of interest and desire to win in our booster class.

[TheChosenOne]

17 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I directly addressed your point about proof. If you're trying to stop a false narrative for whatever reason just say so. OK so no boosters wanted Ford fired last season.  That means there's a lack of interest and desire to win in our booster class.

I think even the biggest Ford supporters had to walk away from calling it all rumors once Frank did that segment addressing “speculation” that some boosters were trying to force a coaching move. The hole in Frank’s opinion is that boosters who want a coach fired aren’t just going to redirect that buyout $ to give to the coach (the one they want fired) to use for recruiting. It seems clear Troy and the BVF have run into similar issues which seems rather obvious. While Ford was not fired, they may have effectively ended Ford’s time here this past spring.

[billikenbill]

3 hours ago, wgstl said:

All this talk after a win. Just wait till we lose to bad teams, which will happen. The board is going to burn. 

Getting my popcorn ready for Tuesday night once the blowout commences.

[VeniceMenace]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

Oddly enough, Frank has barely mentioned the Bills this season and when he does, it's normally to highlight that things aren't going well. Maybe he feels betrayed.

Just about everyone else in the media has done the same…as have fans, resulting in empty seats.
 

The PD columnist recently wrote, Just what is going on in Midtown? That was it, no further details….appropriate because many wonder the same. Being more forthcoming about minor details like three ineligible players might be a helpful start.

[VeniceMenace]

This is just a question….many have posted Ford cannot recruit at a high level due to NIL or lack thereof…but the first recruit for 2024 appears legit, someone posted he’s the highest 247-ranking since C. Gordon. Seem like contrary developments, any explanation?

[Lord Elrond]

10 minutes ago, VeniceMenace said:

This is just a question….many have posted Ford cannot recruit at a high level due to NIL or lack thereof…but the first recruit for 2024 appears legit, someone posted he’s the highest 247-ranking since C. Gordon. Seem like contrary developments, any explanation?

This years class would have been better if not for the de-commitments. Count no recruit until they come to school in the fall and enroll in class, just the way the world works these days. I actually don’t think Travis Ford is any bit a worse recruiter, he just has to compete with other schools openly offering money, while SLU says “maybe when you’re a senior”. Like wrestling while blindfolded and having your arms tied behind your back while your opponent can see and has full use of his arms. Not really a level playing field.

[billiken_roy]

7 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Just watched the replay. Everytime I rag on GibJim, he starts doing good stuff. Gonna keep that up.

Otherwise, without Parker, there just isn’t enough talent on the roster. Looks like they play hard, but not enough shooters, height, quickness, or one on one skill.

Bottom line, expecting a big number in the L column.

I'm of the opinion that a lot could be cured we with 2 show ready true inside players.   I e. I am not ready to throw away the entire roster.   

That said, no unicorn is going to happen along and drop off the 2.0 versions of obi topin and Daron Holmes.  So our final result is likely to be significantly below 500 imo.  

But a lot of our deficiency is about our opponent being able to key their efforts on the guards imo 

[Cowboy II]

-so #3 for The Green has a WIDE OPEN 3 to give them the lead with a few seconds left and it rims out and I mean WIDE OPEN

-how close to the Dartmouth player was Dalger at the end? it would have been so us for him to foul there

-on the postgame interview CFord was pissed and said he was upset mostly with players taking shots they don't have the ability to make on a consistent basis 

-only 6 turnovers, for us that is amazingly good 

-KenPom has us losing our next 11