GDT: NIT First Round, SLU vs. UNI

[JettFlight5]

Frustrating end to a frustrating season to be honest. 

The NIT sleepwalk was the icing on another wasted year cake. No excuse for getting run out of the building last night, but there are some being made. 

[AnkielBreakers]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Dayton did okay last night without their star point guard, in the same NIT where we failed without our star point guard.

We don't win this game with or without Collins.  He didn't stop Davidson from bombing us with three pointers.  He wouldn't have stopped UNI from bombing us with three pointers.  Okay maybe we lose by 10, but we lose.  UNI took their foot off our neck in the last 4 minutes.

I disagree 100%. UNI’s defense was not impressive. We got stuck in the second half without Yuri. With Yuri, we put up at least 80 points. Defensively, I am guessing he would have defended 2 points for the win.

[DOC]

24 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

So whose fault is it that we don’t have an acceptable backup at PG? 
 

and no, I do not consider Jones a backup PG, he’s a 2. 

Name one acceptable backup willing to play 6 minutes a game fro 3 years? That's what we were selling going into this year. 

[wgstl]

Just now, DOC said:

Name one acceptable backup willing to play 6 minutes a game fro 3 years? That's what we were selling going into this year. 

It almost has to be a frosh.

 

Maybe we get lucky with Thames next year

[DOC]

4 minutes ago, wgstl said:

It almost has to be a frosh.

 

Maybe we get lucky with Thames next year

Now we’re selling sitting on the bench for 2 years. Name one acceptable pg willing to play 6 minutes a game for 2 years? Marten chose Indiana State over that option. 

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, DOC said:

Now we’re selling sitting on the bench for 2 years. Name one acceptable pg willing to play 6 minutes a game for 2 years? Marten chose Indiana State over that option. 

Im talking about most teams, not our situation, I'm saying most teams don't have 2 capable PG, and most of the teams that happen to have that luxury is because they had a freshman capable of coming in and contributing right away. This isn't a common thing. I hope we luck out and Thames comes in and can play back up right away.  My guess is it's going to be 2 years before we can count on Thames giving good minutes at Point

[brianstl]

14 minutes ago, DOC said:

Name one acceptable backup willing to play 6 minutes a game fro 3 years? That's what we were selling going into this year. 

While I would love getting Perkins back, this team might need a combo guard more.  That would be a transfer that could run the offense when Yuri is on the bench and still collect minutes taking some load off Yuri by playing with him.  That opens you up to many more players in the transfer portal.

 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Yuri being out hours before the game is a viable excuse for this one game.  It's the whole body of work that is the problem.  1 A10 Tournament Championship, 1 NCAA bid from that season.  No at large bids.   No post season wins, no conference finishes above 4th.  No wins over ranked teams.  Despite very good recruiting, very good facilities, very good support, in a good location for basketball. 

 

Does there seem to be a coherent plan to recruiting to a system/type?  Does there seem to be a viable offensive/defensive strategy?  I don't see it.  I also see a mixed bag on player development with the majority of players not improving.  The sum is never greater than the parts here.  Your team needs to be cohesive and roles fit into a system/identity in order to win. 

I hope Perkins comes back and we see a team that is effective and wins top 3 in conference gets a bid to dance.  I just have no data that would lead me to believe that is likely.

this is such a good post.   i agree throughout.  particularly a recruiting plan.   it seems to me ford recruits an athletic roster we all seem to agree he has had some if not the best up and down the roster athletic billiken teams in billiken history.   but by year end we are always playing basically 6 maybe 7 players.   the fans are screaming the team has no legs left and we seem to end the season with a thud.   

well what the heck happened to that athletic roster proclaimed to be the best in history at the beginning of the season?   mostly they have been over looked more and more throughout the season and pretty much rotted on the bench destroying confidence and eroding of skills.   then all at once a hole is opened and no one can credibly compensate.   

personally i loved our roster this year.   but i also recognize if we werent going to play fast and hard and play suffocating defense and run players in and out, it wouldnt work.   so the question is, if ford wants to play like davidson and northern iowa and use just 7 old school basketball players that utilizes hoosier like offense and defenses then why the heck doesnt he recruit a roster with 3 loyer like point guards, 6 wings that resemble perkins and jimerson and 4 bigs that play the lane like anthony bonner or okoro?   why even bring in a hargrove, or strickland, or williams or traore or (it really hurts me to say this) nesbitt?   

last night was painful.   particularly since it was pretty much the third game vs davidson and the same result.   my gosh, dont we learn anything from the spankings? 

and the defense?  what defense?   

com on chris may.   long overdue for a heart to heart talk with travis.    there has to be some change in mindset.    either we recruit jimmy chitwoods or we recruit havoc players.    when we decide what we want, then run defenses and offenses that fit the team.   

there was way way too much talent imo to end the season like we did.   we had talent.   they were just misused and definitely not properly prepared in my opinion. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, willie said:

I would agree with your zone premise but when things aren't working you need to try something else. The zone. 

willie my only comment to that is if you dont practice it a lot, just trying something different as an "adjustment"  is likely to fail.   

[billiken_roy]

3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

While I would love getting Perkins back, this team might need a combo guard more.  That would be a transfer that could run the offense when Yuri is on the bench and still collect minutes taking some load off Yuri by playing with him.  That opens you up to many more players in the transfer portal.

 

i say we have that guard in nesbit.   but nesbit never improved.    did he get worked with on development throughout the season?  i doubt it.  

[Billikenbooster]

2 hours ago, Marlow said:

Majerus never paid attention to officials. He said is was fruitless, and he didn’t want to take his attention away from his team and the game plan. Ford, on the other hand, gets caught up in the officials from the tip-off to the final buzzer. His players respond respond accordingly.

I think Majerus gave the refs some lip when they ran back-and-forth in front of him. We just didn’t see it. He was a beautiful teacher, always teaching his players how to improve themselves.

[HoosierPal]

57 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I disagree 100%. UNI’s defense was not impressive. We got stuck in the second half without Yuri. With Yuri, we put up at least 80 points. Defensively, I am guessing he would have defended 2 points for the win.

Funny. I like your sense of humor. 
 

[majerus mojo]

3 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Get a grip everyone. We lost an A10 first team point guard hours before the game. We all knew that one player was the only position where we didn’t have a good backup. It showed.

How did SBU do with Lofton or Ossun? They lost by 40 and 20 respectively. If you do not have a backup, then things can fall apart. But, it is one game.

Positives: we now see the number area where we need to improve this off-season, PG depth.

People are really into the NIT, huh? It seems Ford & staff treated it more like an exhibition than a post-season tournament. Yuri sat as a pre-caution -- would he have played in any NIT games?

I'm not surprised folks are able to work themselves up over a loss, without Yuri, but the season ended last Saturday 

 

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

People are really into the NIT, huh? It seems Ford & staff treated it more like an exhibition than a post-season tournament. Yuri sat as a pre-caution -- would he have played in any NIT games?

I'm not surprised folks are able to work themselves up over a loss, without Yuri, but the season ended last Saturday 

 

We played Strickland at point for a decent chuck, so no. ha. 

[shempie]

I think there is a difference between recruiting talent and roster construction. TF has recruited talent but not assembled a great roster. Way too many similiar players and skill sets (athletic tweeners with somewhat limited ballhandling and perimter shooting skills and basketball IQ) . I personally would like to see more size and a higher overall bball IQ.

 

Also, none of us know, but Dr. C's opinion of TF is probably very important.

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, shempie said:

I think there is a difference between recruiting talent and roster construction. TF has recruited talent but not assembled a great roster. Way too many similiar players and skill sets (athletic tweeners with somewhat limited ballhandling and perimter shooting skills and basketball IQ) . I personally would like to see more size and a higher overall bball IQ.

 

Also, none of us know, but Dr. C's opinion of TF is probably very important.

Not unless he is going to pay the buyout if it comes that. If not his opinion while more than ours will have a lesser value 

[billikenbill]

14 minutes ago, shempie said:

I think there is a difference between recruiting talent and roster construction. TF has recruited talent but not assembled a great roster. Way too many similiar players and skill sets (athletic tweeners with somewhat limited ballhandling and perimter shooting skills…

This post is right on point. Our starting lineup positions 1-4 was a 6’0 PG, probably more like 5’11 being generous, a 6’5 non-leaping 2 guard, calling GibJim the 2 guard, a 6’6 3 who is a terrific athlete but plays out of control and is not a great shooter, and a 6’3 power forward who is serviceable at a lot things but not great at anything on the offensive end.

From the bench we had an even shorter PG and a 6’4 forward who is basically another Thatch. That lineup has the death combination of not enough size and not enough shooting. We have to get bigger and shoot better. It would help if we ran something besides that vanilla offense currently in use. Aside from the back door cuts to Jimerson, we ran the same predictable, easily defended stuff we always do.

[SShoe]

1 hour ago, DOC said:

Now we’re selling sitting on the bench for 2 years. Name one acceptable pg willing to play 6 minutes a game for 2 years? Marten chose Indiana State over that option. 

The answer is not necessarily recruiting another traditional, past-first PG.  Go after a combo guard that can handle it and score it, wouldn't mind playing alongside Yuri.  Majerus' teams had 3 legit PGs on the team.  

[DOC]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

i say we have that guard in nesbit.   but nesbit never improved.    did he get worked with on development throughout the season?  i doubt it.  

I’d like the point guard on offense to be in control, have excellent handles, be a  strong leader, and be a very good passer and free throw shooter. Nesbit is none of these. 

[3star_recruit]

42 minutes ago, shempie said:

I think there is a difference between recruiting talent and roster construction. TF has recruited talent but not assembled a great roster. Way too many similiar players and skill sets (athletic tweeners with somewhat limited ballhandling and perimter shooting skills and basketball IQ) . I personally would like to see more size and a higher overall bball IQ.

 

Also, none of us know, but Dr. C's opinion of TF is probably very important.

I don't mind having multiple similar players if they can handle, shoot and pass.  Our shooters can't handle or pass. Our uber-athletes either lack ballhandling skills, bball IQ or both.  Once Nesbitt develops some semblance of a mid-range game, he will instantly become a smarter basketball player so there is some hope there.  He has some of the best handles we've seen from a 6'6 Billiken.  He just uses them to drive into shotblockers instead of open shots.

Nesbitt aside, the St. Louis metro does produce an abundance of tweeners with limited ballhandling ability.  Even a blue-chipper like Cam Fletcher falls into this category.  I hope our recent foray into Texas can help us fill in the skill gaps. Everybody we're looking at appears to be able to shoot, handle and pass. 

 

[almaman]

7 hours ago, Scoop said:

UNI took the game plan from Davidson. Chuck 3s and a lot of them. It obviously worked as they were out matched down low.

That being said, just an uninspired performance. You could see it as there was practically no emotion. Players pissed off.  Ford said on the post game that they will get better in the offseason with the players who buy in and are dedicated to team blue.  Read between the lines. Some changes coming.

NIT no inspiration tournament. 

[thatskablamo]

58 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

People are really into the NIT, huh? It seems Ford & staff treated it more like an exhibition than a post-season tournament. Yuri sat as a pre-caution -- would he have played in any NIT games?

I'm not surprised folks are able to work themselves up over a loss, without Yuri, but the season ended last Saturday 

 

Let’s say our coaching staff takes a page out of the NFL preseason and plays Perkins until the under 16 timeout. 

 

Our season ended against Rockhurst. I applaud and appreciate the effort turned in by the squad and the lemons into lemonade, etc., but we lost our general in a battle that should have never happened in the first place. 
 

[majerus mojo]

2 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

Let’s say our coaching staff takes a page out of the NFL preseason and plays Perkins until the under 16 timeout. 

 

Our season ended against Rockhurst. I applaud and appreciate the effort turned in by the squad and the lemons into lemonade, etc., but we lost our general in a battle that should have never happened in the first place. 
 

Can't compare NFL preseason/injury risks to basketball (and he might as well not play if you're pulling him after 4 minutes). If I were to wildly speculate, the biggest culprit was likely the increased strength training in the off-season as he was bulking up for the next-level. Other than that, just a freak accident which could have happened at any time. 

[thatskablamo]

59 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

Can't compare NFL preseason/injury risks to basketball (and he might as well not play if you're pulling him after 4 minutes). If I were to wildly speculate, the biggest culprit was likely the increased strength training in the off-season as he was bulking up for the next-level. Other than that, just a freak accident which could have happened at any time. 

No comparison, you are right - but just what those players mean to the team, the risk/reward element isn’t there in the pre-season. Obviously, Perkins goes down in Feb against a conference opponent, I think we all freak out, too. But this was against Rockhurst. What do the coaches talk about before the game? When was the yank coming?

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, DOC said:

I’d like the point guard on offense to be in control, have excellent handles, be a  strong leader, and be a very good passer and free throw shooter. Nesbit is none of these. 

i would argue that besides yuri, nesbit is the best passer and best court vision on the team.   as to handles, he gets to the rim probably better than anyone on the team but then isnt in control enough to know when to stop or not make it harder than he has to.   

as to strong leader, it is rare a freshman is the strong leader.   collins is so strong as a leader i can imagine no one else is allowed to serve that role.