Jump to content
Billikens.com Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
WVBilliken

RM Was a Great Bench Coach .... so

Recommended Posts

So how does Ford stack up as a coach that gets more out of a team because he coaches players up?

When he arrived many posters said he was not a good bench coach but that he sure can recruit.  They pointed out he hasn't won an NCCA Tourney game.  Well, now four years in, what do you say?  Especially want to hear from those of you who were down on Ford as a coach when he was hired.

I think the year he lost several from the squad due to situation 2, he did an incredible job.  He's gotten even better the past two years.  He coaches recognizing the talent he has on the team.   He adjusts to losses like last year when his top shooter goes down.  He adjusts within a game.  He gets players to buy in and play defense with intensity.  Maybe not at RM's level, but I say he's a damn good bench coach.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's a great recruiter and motivator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only complaint is there are way too many times I can't tell just what our offense is designed to do in a half-court set.  I think every step up you go, talent can negate talent.  This is where a good bench coach earns his money.  This is where I think Calipari falls short.  You mention Ford hasn't won an NCAA tournament game.  Maybe there's some proof in there.  He does a pretty fair job in my book.

I agree he's a great motivator; guys want to play for him.  key in today's game.

I agree he's a great recruiter however the recent pitfalls of suspensions, dismissals, defections have not allowed us to see him craft his master plan in terms of team composition.  Next year's teams seems the most complete and Goodwin and French have to come back and the season must be played or the question goes unanswered again.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was hoping we would get Ford, but more for his track record of NCAA Tourney appearances than thoughts of him being an exceptional bench coach (wasn't really aware of that one way or the other at the time). 

Anyone who watched/witnessed the 2019 A10 tournament can attest to Coach Ford's ability to "get more out of a team because he coaches players up."

Also, finishing 11th in the A10 doesn't sound impressive, but I was amazed he got 6 conference wins and an A10 tourney win out of the '16-'17 team. That was really working with what he had and getting everything out of that team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ford has brought in a sweet 16 caliber roster for next year. He doesn't have a good track record in the NCAA tournament but he can put a lot of those questions to rest with one deep run

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Travis deserves a lot of credit for our defensive job he did in 2018-2019. Our rotations were great, we played a bunch of different zones and we'd sometimes switch defensive schemes mid-possession, which I found impressive.

On offense I think he has gotten better with some of our offensive sets. He did a good job in the second half creating space for Perkins to operate. I think he likes running the offense through the post more than I would prefer, but I'm also just an MBM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe  coach Ford went to the second round of the tournament in his first year at Oklahoma State.  

I think we have a team that has a good chance to crack the top 25 at some point next season, but I wouldn't project us as a top 16 team just yet.  Playing top 16 basketball is a good jump from where we finished.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

He's a great recruiter and motivator. 

This is the main thing.

I also think at 50 years old he is just entering his bench coaching prime.

He’s always had the ability to recruit and motivate, the next couple years we will see if he has improved on his bench coaching.

I believe he has. I also believe he has the basketball knowledge and desire to become and elite bench coach.

Coaching is like anything else the more you do it the better you will become. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach Ford has shown me he's a good game/bench coach. In the last 3 seasons, he's got more out of his kids that perhaps he should have. He's dealt with situations (S2, Gordan, Fred and GJ this year) that have adversely effected the team but in each case by season's end had the team competing at a high level. I think his primary strengths are on the defensive end, and I also believe that this next season he will have the talent and depth where a couple of injuries will have little effect on the team's play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people forget how terrible our offense looked at times under RM, especially when the opposing team put out a zone against us. Also, I believe we scored 20 in a game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I've posted this once before, but I don't care how much talent you recruit, you can't do what Ford has done without at least being a decent game/bench coach. See below:Screenshot_20200501-095254_Chrome.thumb.jpg.4911e9d6bd05c2ce21a8390cfbfc79a9.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Ford should get credit for how well that team did in his second year. That team had no business winning 17 games. Plus winninig four in four days last season, beating Grant, McKillop, and Schmidt in the process. Running McKillop and Grant out of the gym. 

 

There are times he has lost us a game or two, such as Pitt @ Barclays, but I think he's won us more games than he lost for sure. It is always wild that A10 twitter still thinks he's who he was at UMass. 12 YEARS AGO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

I think Ford should get credit for how well that team did in his second year. That team had no business winning 17 games. Plus winninig four in four days last season, beating Grant, McKillop, and Schmidt in the process. Running McKillop and Schmidt out of the gym. 

 

There are times he has lost us a game or two, such as Pitt @ Barclays, but I think he's won us more games than he lost for sure. It is always wild that A10 twitter still thinks he's who he was at UMass. 12 YEARS AGO!

You could make the case Isabell lost that game at Barclays. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game against Seton Hall should temper any thoughts of Ford being a great bench coach right now. I've seen improvement but he's not there yet. Majerus never lost games coaching. Ford does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, thetorch said:

The game against Seton Hall should temper any thoughts of Ford being a great bench coach right now. I've seen improvement but he's not there yet. Majerus never lost games coaching. Ford does.

You think that's a game we should have won?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, thetorch said:

The game against Seton Hall should temper any thoughts of Ford being a great bench coach right now. I've seen improvement but he's not there yet. Majerus never lost games coaching. Ford does.

Ford apologized to the team after that game. He tried to implement a lot of new defensive looks before that game to stop Powell. He felt he didn’t prepare the team well enough, when we reverted to the normal defense in the second we hung in there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

You think that's a game we should have won?

On our home floor with Powell in his first game back I thought we should have done better than get completely dusted yes.  The team was totally lost in the first half and that was on Ford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, thetorch said:

On our home floor with Powell in his first game back I thought we should have done better than get completely dusted yes.  The team was totally lost in the first half and that was on Ford.

It was not Powell's 1st game back.  He played 33 minutes and dropped 37 points on Michigan State in the game prior.  In fact, he got hurt on 11/9 during the game vs Stony Brook playing only 4 minutes, but then didn't miss any actual games.  MSU was 11/14 and SLU was 11/7.

He was more seriously injured later in the year and missed games, but the Powell that played against us seemed 100% healthy.

Edit: This doesn't mean I totally disagree with you.  We didn't seem well prepared for the game.  I don't think it was a game we should have won, but should have been able to keep it closer.  05 explained the preparation issue and I think that is separate from in-game coaching regardless.

2nd Edit: That Seton Hall team was pretty darn stacked & a tough matchup for us which is why I don't think we should have won.  They had waves of giant big men to throw at French inside.  They definitely had the pieces to make a deep tournament run.  No shame in losing that game even at home.  The way it was lost - getting smacked in the mouth right off the bat and never really having a chance was sort of jarring though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thetorch said:

The game against Seton Hall should temper any thoughts of Ford being a great bench coach right now. I've seen improvement but he's not there yet. Majerus never lost games coaching. Ford does.

I don’t totally disagree but I think Majerus lost a few games, I won’t say on purpose but to make a point.

He had games he could have changed things up and possibly won but he wanted to make sure his players knew what was what.

Majerus would lose a game in December if it meant a lesson was learned for March.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach Ford was one of the best 3 coaches in the A10 last year.  If he can maintain that level of coaching, we will finally be a perennial top 50 program because we know he can get players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Littlebill said:

I think Ford should get credit for how well that team did in his second year. That team had no business winning 17 games. Plus winninig four in four days last season, beating Grant, McKillop, and Schmidt in the process. Running McKillop and Schmidt out of the gym

 

There are times he has lost us a game or two, such as Pitt @ Barclays, but I think he's won us more games than he lost for sure. It is always wild that A10 twitter still thinks he's who he was at UMass. 12 YEARS AGO!

-I remember Bonnie missing a 3 at the buzzer that would have won the game for them (and changed a lot of talk on here)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I remember Bonnie missing a 3 at the buzzer that would have won the game for them (and changed a lot of talk on here)

Whoops. Meant Grant. Edited the post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, thetorch said:

The game against Seton Hall should temper any thoughts of Ford being a great bench coach right now. I've seen improvement but he's not there yet. Majerus never lost games coaching. Ford does.

Majerus was a wizard in setting up his defense, but we had some atrocious offensive showings. Every coach loses games. I remember clearly in Rick's third season with us we were playing a good Xavier team at half time. Then they set up a 3-2 zone, we couldnt adjust offensively, and we lost by 2 after being up 6 at half. There were other instances but saying Majerus never lost games coaching and Ford does is not true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, A10Ref said:

 

Majerus was a wizard in setting up his defense, but we had some atrocious offensive showings. Every coach loses games. I remember clearly in Rick's third season with us we were playing a good Xavier team at half time. Then they set up a 3-2 zone, we couldnt adjust offensively, and we lost by 2 after being up 6 at half. There were other instances but saying Majerus never lost games coaching and Ford does is not true.

not saying it was winable, but the game vs george washington where we set the never to be broken record of least points scored was all on rickma as well.  it was a game during semester break and he had like 3 straight 10 hour practices the three days before the game.   their legs were completely shot.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unlike football, where a really good coach sees tons of things, and can make halftime adjustments that win or lose games, there's not quite as much "game coaching" for college basketball. The real skill is drawing up plays at the end of games and of course subs, in addition to switching in and out of zones. Mostly of subbing and defense is educated guessing (it's not like Ford knew Hightower would make the And 1 against Lasalle). What's obvious to Coach K is likely obvious to Lorenzo Romar. 

What matters infinitely more is practice coaching, part of which is game prep coaching. Here Majerus was probably the best in recent memory, save maybe Brad Stevens. He taught. Full stop. Listen to the Earl podcast. 

To me, Ford is top 10% recruiting, top 20% practice coaching, and top 50% game coaching. Majerus was probably top 30% in game coaching and recruiting, but top .1% in practice coaching. I don't think Ford is the type of coach to take Utah to the Final 4 or Ball St. to the Sweet 16, but he's the type of coach to take SLU there, in part because he can get better talent than Rick got. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...